Verschaffeltia Spacing?

[Cindy Adair]

I grew these from seed I collected in 2015.

I read that the leaves get 6-8 feet long on a 2 foot petiole. Apparently it can grow 80 feet tall with a 12 inch diameter spiny trunk and a 6 foot tall cone of spineless stilt roots.

I have seen how nature plants them in the Seychelles.

I still am not sure how to position mine. 

I have tentatively selected an wind protected place where they will also have the initial partial shade of a steep bank and some tree ferns. Of course eventually they will be in full sun. 

I can still change my mind if convinced though.

I would prefer that they be staggered more and to have five, not four but you work with what you have. I am primarily writing inquiring spacing.

So far the pots are between 20 feet and 10 feet apart. I can measure and make them the same distance, but due to another hill it won't be obvious plus I am not sure in this case it is even preferable.

Is it more attractive to have no overlap of leaves, so about 20 feet between if the leaves were completely horizontal? Or is that so far apart they will seem "disconnected" and artificial.

I have not yet dug any holes, but want to proceed soon so speak up now please! Thanks so much.

 

 

[doranakandawatta]

Cindy, 

I would place them in a irregular distance so it doesn't look like a Avenue and maybe you should try to avoid making a line?
As you saw them in Seychelles Vallée de Mai, you know that it can be a nice grove.

Here the two first Verschaffeltia in Doranakanda gardens (planted in 2010)

[Cindy Adair]

Philippe, yours look great as a grove! Much more natural.

About how far apart are they?

 I really love to be able to easily walk a few steps down the road or even take less ambulatory visitors (or me as I age) in a car to see them, so I am torn.

I also don't want their lovely, but evil spines (falling fronds and trunk) to be too intrusive on my more narrow walking only paths. So much to consider!

 

 

[doranakandawatta]

Cindy, 

There is maybe 3 meters between them, and strangely the trunk lost very quickly the spines, so I can walk nearby without any damage. But maybe the roots will take too much space soon ?

[realarch]

Hi Cindy, well here I am again. 

You can plant them as close or as far apart as you want, depending on the look you seek. I planted my two very close and I love the 

combination. Fast growers and the merging roots create quite the focal point. Mine have seeded already and I've potted several up. 

Tim

[Kim]

Hi Cindy -- I would agree with Philippe and Tim -- not necessary to keep them so widespread.  I only have 2 planted perhaps 6 to 8 ft. apart. They are surrounded by other palms as well.  My thinking was they would get so much taller than the other palms, and this would give the garden a layered look (see photo).  It's all a matter of your personal style. I have seen gardens packed as tight as possible that succeed on a  certain level, and others where each palm is planted with lots of room around it, as a botanic specimen, which also succeeds on that level.  My own style is somewhere in between.   Find your own style.

One Verschaffeltia in the right 1/3 of the photo, with the leaf tips of the 2nd on the right edge of the frame.  Licuala and Dictyosperma below; Phoenicophorium behind. Weeds everywhere! 

[colin Peters]

Mine is planted way too close to other palms. I cant enjoy the new reddish leaves, but the stilts and spiky trunk are very much a focal point. I had four others that snapped in the wind of our valley. So that is a concern here. So being in the protection of other palms has paid off, but  to be able to see the nice whole leaves in a windless environment, would make it worth spreading them out a bit. 

Tim, KIm yours look spectacular. Truly a beautiful palm.

aloha

[realarch]

Looking good Kim, is that L. distans in the lower right?

Colin, those must have been some pretty strong winds to snap a Verschaffeltia. Their stilt roots look pretty tough, a lot tougher than say a Socratea. 

Tim

[Kim]

6 hours ago, realarch said:

Looking good Kim, is that L. distans in the lower right?

Tim

Yes, I believe it to be L. distans, good eye!

[el-blanco]

Great pictures!  Love the ferns Cindy.  Kim, your place in HI looks stellar!!

[mike in kurtistown]

Cindy,

I think I can best contribute just by showing what I did with four Verschaffeltia splendidas. Planted July 2012, full sun location, from 2-gal pots (somewhat larger than yours). Tractor loader (extreme right) and canopy provide scale.

The first three (left to right) are 12 ft apart. the last two are 8 ft apart. I did that (8 ft) because there is a pathway for my equipment to pass between the two shadehouses and I didn't want to plant in that corridor. Why 12 ft? It helps me to get mowing equipment between them. I agree with Tim again that you can choose the spacing to fit your aesthetic plan as well as for practical considerations. Actually, I was going to plant the last two to the right of the first two on the left, making a square pattern, but I hit a shallow rock shelf and couldn't make the holes.

 

[doranakandawatta]

See how they planted these palms in this special garden; Vallée de Mai, Praslin (lol)

[Cindy Adair]

I truly appreciate all the photos and time spent writing commentary, Jeff, Colin,Mike, Kim, Philippe and Tim!!!

It is hugely helpful!

I did not even consider that intertwined roots would soon be more at eye level than the crowns. I like my hill as a background and wind protection to keep those juvenile bifid leaves intact as long as possible I hope and the convenience of the prospective location.

Within the next few days, like moving furniture, I will shift them around and rephotograph. Maybe there is a bit of a ledge (under all those pretty but aggressive ferns, where I can plant one up a bit to look more natural? 

[doranakandawatta]

those pretty but aggressive ferns, where I can plant one up a bit to look more natural? 

Actually Cindy, why are your ferns aggressive ? For your plants since they take all the space ? or are they scratching ?

[Cindy Adair]

I got distracted clearing sunny areas to plant some non palms so haven't shifted my Verschaffeltias yet. 

On June 19, 2017 at 3:39:54 PM, doranakandawatta said:

those pretty but aggressive ferns, where I can plant one up a bit to look more natural? 

Actually Cindy, why are your ferns aggressive ? For your plants since they take all the space ? or are they scratching ?

As to these ferns, Philippe they don't scratch, but they are aggressive and will even climb at least part way up trees. They are pretty and do hold the soil but I have no problem cutting them back as needed. They seem to be sunlovers and common on the sides of roads on steep banks especially. So not really in the weed category but not as precious as the delicate maidenhair ferns in shade for example that I try to avoid cutting at all.

[bgl]

Cindy,

You've already received lots of good advice, but let me just briefly add my own thoughts. I planted more than fifty in my old garden, and I'm with Tim on this one - plant as close as you like. I think they look great when planted close together. And when I say close, I mean CLOSE. Like a couple of feet apart, but not consistently. Break it up, more distance here, less distance there. What will happen over time when they get mature (and it happens quickly in a tropical climate) is that they will drop seeds, which will self germinate like crazy, and there will be little seedlings VERY close to the parent plant. Which is fine - you'll get different "levels" when looking at the fronds and as you know, these palms are very compact, so having overlapping fronds (IMO) doesn't detract from the look. Rather, quite the opposite. Obviously a personal preference, but I think that's a more "natural" look, rather than spacing them out 20 feet or so.

Bo-Göran

[doranakandawatta]

Bo-Göran, 

Nice to see your comment and picture;
Your garden is very close to Vallée de Mai atmosphere on this photo !

regards

Philippe

[bgl]

1 hour ago, doranakandawatta said:

Bo-Göran, 

Nice to see your comment and picture;
Your garden is very close to Vallée de Mai atmosphere on this photo !

regards

Philippe

Thank you, Philippe! And sort of what I had in mind when I designed it.

[Cindy Adair]

6 hours ago, bgl said:

Cindy,

You've already received lots of good advice, but let me just briefly add my own thoughts. I planted more than fifty in my old garden, and I'm with Tim on this one - plant as close as you like. I think they look great when planted close together. And when I say close, I mean CLOSE. Like a couple of feet apart, but not consistently. Break it up, more distance here, less distance there. What will happen over time when they get mature (and it happens quickly in a tropical climate) is that they will drop seeds, which will self germinate like crazy, and there will be little seedlings VERY close to the parent plant. Which is fine - you'll get different "levels" when looking at the fronds and as you know, these palms are very compact, so having overlapping fronds (IMO) doesn't detract from the look. Rather, quite the opposite. Obviously a personal preference, but I think that's a more "natural" look, rather than spacing them out 20 feet or so.

Bo-Göran

Wow that is gorgeous! I am convinced now to give up on the easy to photograph and view driving by idea and go for a grouping even if I end up nixing the current location? 

Of course it was raining when I saw them in Praslin, but here is a photo from October 2015 with me showing the size of those roots. I am 5 ft 2.5"for reference.

 

 

[Cindy Adair]

First I removed some ferns and fallen tree fern fronds and traveler's palm leaves and vines. Note the cart underneath (and my hat for scale).Sorry mid day so photos are bleached.

Then I stuck my favorite digging tool, a serrated trowel in the soil and easily dug enough to place the pots.

Then I measured and they vary between 4 and 7 feet apart and of course are also at different heights too.

Better spacing now???

 

[bgl]

That's going to look great, Cindy!  You might even consider getting another half dozen or so and add to this little group. The more the merrier when it comes to Verschaffeltias!

[doranakandawatta]

That's going to look great, Cindy!  

a real Vallée de Mai ravine atmosphere, it's a very good idea to play with the different levels !

[Cindy Adair]

3 hours ago, bgl said:

That's going to look great, Cindy!  You might even consider getting another half dozen or so and add to this little group. The more the merrier when it comes to Verschaffeltias!

I have never seen them for sale but today I had an offer of some seeds via this forum! Perhaps more in my future.....

1 hour ago, doranakandawatta said:

That's going to look great, Cindy!  

a real Vallée de Mai ravine atmosphere, it's a very good idea to play with the different levels !

Thanks to you all who commented so they no longer look like soldiers at attention, but still are easily visible and spines not too close to a walking path.

Many more palms to plant, so don't be surprised if I continue to ask lots of questions!

[doranakandawatta]

Many more palms to plant, so don't be surprised if I continue to ask lots of questions!

Will you also plant many Lodoicea ?

  0

 

[bgl]

Cindy, these are quick to germinate and grow up from seedlings!

[Cindy Adair]

[Cindy Adair]

13 hours ago, doranakandawatta said:

Many more palms to plant, so don't be surprised if I continue to ask lots of questions!

Will you also plant many Lodoicea ?

  0

 

•  

I will pledge to plant an entire two acres here in double coconuts if I were to be given seeds!

And plant some in any botanical garden in the world who wants them and does not need a greenhouse to care for them properly.

 Alas...

[doranakandawatta]

On 23/6/2017 19:25:54, Cindy Adair said:

I am sure that within two years it will be a wonderful jungle.

Hopefully you can be there the days they develop new colorful leaves like this one:

so we all on Palmtalk can enjoy your pictures !

 

[Cindy Adair]

Lovely! I worry that even with the hill protecting one side that the wind may shred my leaves even before they outgrow the bifid look I prefer. 

We'll see. Thanks for the hint of things to come Philippe!

With more fresh seeds headed my way I can scatter them other places too and later share with those who have none in PR.

[foxtail]

11 hours ago, Cindy Adair said:

 

With more fresh seeds headed my way I can scatter them other places too and later share with those who have none in PR.

[Missi]

@Cindy Adair (when you return to us here on PT) Did your beautiful V. splendida plantings survive Irma/Maria?

[Cindy Adair]

On 10/10/2017 at 11:22 AM, Missi said:

@Cindy Adair (when you return to us here on PT) Did your beautiful V. splendida plantings survive Irma/Maria?

Well, 4 years later I see this post. Better late than never, I can happily reply that three of the four did survive and thrive.

The photo below shows one of the landslides that narrowly missed burying all of them.

I am beginning to catch up on weed control after a shoulder issue 6 months ago. So not perfect but here are the three hurricane Maria survivors on that hill. The land above the palms belongs to my neighbor who at 82 does not worry about weed control.

Note the shovel for scale. I have never watered or fertilized them and the bad rhino beetles here have left them alone.

 

The new leaves are especially nice but the lighting was not ideal for photos today.

I did plant more from the seeds referenced in this topic, but they are in another area with my other Seychelles palms.

Hoping to get through another no hurricane year!

[Kim]

Good job with the planting and lucky escape from the landslide! Looking stellar!

[realarch]

On 6/18/2017 at 2:50 AM, doranakandawatta said:

See how they planted these palms in this special garden; Vallée de Mai, Praslin (lol)

Geesus, that is such an awesome photograph. 

Tim

[realarch]

Good job Cindy, looking VERY GOOD. Such beautiful palms at any stage of growth. I do miss seeing the reddish.color on the new leaf at eye level though.

Tim

[Cindy Adair]

Thanks all!

The others I planted are still smaller, but should ultimately allow me to look down on the tops from my house. 
 

These hurricane survivors were planted to have the stilt roots seen from my car.