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Would W. Filifera Do Well In Florida Scrub Land?


PalmTreeDude

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Lets say someone planted a Washingtonia filifera in scrub land somewhere in Central Florida with typical sandy soil. Would that W. filifera do well? I would think it would since the rain makes up for it not being by a pond or some other body of water and the sun would be constantly beating down on it, just like they like. Would humidity be an issue in this situation? 

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PalmTreeDude

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56 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Lets say someone planted a Washingtonia filifera in scrub land somewhere in Central Florida with typical sandy soil. Would that W. filifera do well? I would think it would since the rain makes up for it not being by a pond or some other body of water and the sun would be constantly beating down on it, just like they like. Would humidity be an issue in this situation? 

I've thought about that too. I live in scrub land, only in North Florida. The soil here is just about the same as the Central FL scrub. I will find out soon when I plant some of my W. filiferas in the ground here.

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No, it won't.  W. filifera are native to areas where the soil has plentiful moisture and good nutrient holding capacity.  The tops of the trees are dry most of the time.  Here in central FL, the soils have virtually no nutrients, and the tree canopy is exposed to tons of rain events. 

Palms, even native Sabal palmetto in situ, express nutrient deficiencies, mostly potassium and magnesium.  Washingtonia robusta do too.  A significant problem is that during the rainy season, nutrients are literally leached from the plant tissue!  Washingtonia filifera seem particularly sensitive to potassium deficiency, and they have serious problems with leaf spots.  Its likely the two are related because potassium is key in the plants ability to manage the guard cells that open and close the stomates.  When deficient in potassium, the stomates don't work properly.  With virtually no potassium in the soil plants struggle and go into decline.  You just can't fertilize enough to change these dynamics.  

In the pure white sands of the lake wales ridge, the soil properties are quite severe with a small, but well adapted community of plants dominating:  various oaks, saw palmetto, longleaf pine, slash pine, a few grasses.  Sabal palmetto isn't common in those conditions, but it does occur on occasion.  The ones pictured are growing along a creek & are literally standing in water at the time i took this photo.  Sabal etonia is native to upland, dry sites in this environment.   They are quite well adapted (Pic included).  They grow in both sun & shade though the thriving one pictured is growing in full sun in pure white sand.  It had seed.  The final photo shows a picturesque pine mixed with various oaks and Saw palmetto in the foreground.  This is a beautiful environment, but its fairly hostile to Washingtonia filifera.  

Setonia - 1.png

Spalmetto along creek lake wales ridge - 1.png

Longleaf Pine & Saw Palmetto - 1.png

  • Upvote 8

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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W. filifera will really struggle in warm, wet, humid, sandy, sunny Florida, but boy you accidentally drop some seeds in a sidewalk crack in Arizona or California and you couldn't stop it if you tried!

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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Dear Friends,

Here's a still of our Washy Filifera growing in hot wet tropic,with high coastal humidity.Its trunk is not massive as the ones we see in california or middle east.But its up to my taste.And one thing that i noticed is that the thorns seen in the fronds are becoming smaller as its maturing into a big palm.

During rainy season this palm is standing under constant monsoon rainfall like a big fat buffalo,which does not care much about its surroundings.But even our rainy season is warm and humid but never cool. Temperature never goes below 80 to 82 degrees Fahrenheit.

 20170602_162807.thumb.jpg.ff981f56adccb1

20170531_165609.thumb.jpg.4efb2355ec8272

20170531_165513.thumb.jpg.d6e77b329af228

What iam trying to tell here is if you like this variety then try some soil amendments and pamper for a about 4 years,it could grow in florida.

Love,

Kris.

 

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love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

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The soil at my location is officially called "Lakeland sand," and pinus clausa (sand pine) thrives in it. One of two populations of sand pine occurs where I live in about identical conditions to the population in the vicinity of Orlando. I've seen W. robusta and filibusta do JUST FINE in this infertile soil. Sure, if you planted a small tree out in the middle of a sandy ridge with no extra care, I'm sure it wouldn't do too hot, but that's not how they typically are placed.  I am eager to see how my filifera will do when planted in ground here.

Edited by Opal92
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I just took a ton of filifera up to the family farm in the panhandle. I have high hopes for them-they will be in zone 8a and the soil is a sandy quartz meets red clay. Some parts are referred to as hardpan, the clay is so dense. We planted them right off of highway 231, along the top of the drainage ditch.

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32 minutes ago, Mandrew968 said:

I just took a ton of filifera up to the family farm in the panhandle. I have high hopes for them-they will be in zone 8a and the soil is a sandy quartz meets red clay. Some parts are referred to as hardpan, the clay is so dense. We planted them right off of highway 231, along the top of the drainage ditch.

I think that clay will make all the difference.  

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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1 hour ago, Opal92 said:

The soil at my location is officially called "Lakeland sand," and pinus clausa (sand pine) thrives in it. One of two populations of sand pine occurs where I live in about identical conditions to the population in the vicinity of Orlando. I've seen W. robusta and filibusta do JUST FINE in this infertile soil. Sure, if you planted a small tree out in the middle of a sandy ridge with no extra care, I'm sure it wouldn't do too hot, but that's not how they typically are placed.  I am eager to see how my filifera will do when planted in ground here.

Opal,

I've had 100% failure with W. filifera in FL.  one thing I've considered is if you could get some clay blended in with the sand, it might work better because the clay will hold nutrients. One source of clay is cat litter, plain, & unscented.  Till it in a foot deep and in an area a few feet wide.  If you give it a try, let us know what you think.

  • Upvote 1

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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1 hour ago, Keith in SoJax said:

I think that clay will make all the difference.  

I am hoping for fatties.

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No florida or humid climate grown filifera will match the desert ones.  The desert ones are huge with many leaves, so thick the crown is dense, and the trunk thickness goes up to 4' thick without leafbases.  i had a friend in phoenix that grew 3 to 25' overall in 6 years from a 15 gallon size, they love the dry heat.  Just like you cant grow a royal in the desert to the same massive size as the humid in florida, florida will not be able to grow a filifera like they do in arizona and SoCal.  Years ago I remember reading a University of Arizona horticultural extension paper stating filiferas do not like wet roots in cool weather, they get root rot.  So their instruction was to infrequently water and only in the heat once established(~1x a month).  Its a real desert palm, loves dry heat and sun.  They really like Arizona or SoCal inland, this is their native range.  I still remember filiferas holding 40(?) bright grey/green leaves and a full beard of another hundred dead leaves as a skirt in the desert, they are massive.  people have been killed trying to trim skirts when all those leaves fell on them in mass.  Even finding a pure filifera is no easy task as they readily hybridize with robustas and people also actively cross them as "fillibustas".  The nurseryman I talked to said the only way to ensure a pure bred filifera was to go to 4000 feet+ elevation in their native range in the mountains where robustas cannot take the winter cold and collect the seed there.  Filiferas are very cold tolerant, to 12 degrees or so, but only when their roots are not wet and humidity is moderate.  In humid areas, I'll bet they are no more cold tolerant than the fillibustas @ 16-17 degrees and possibly even less cold tolerant than that in say Lousiana where the soil is clayish and dries slowly.  clay soil plus cold wet weather and humidity is not a winning formula for these palms as that would promote root rot.   There are only two palms that readily volunteer in phoenix AZ, washingtonia robusta and filifera.  And the robusta needs a nearby irrigation line while the filifera is not so picky.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Yeah, and Bismarckia in South Florida don't grow very well, either, right?

I have personally seen two filifera in Palmetto Bay (down the street from my house) that were super fat. BBW (big beautiful Washingtonia) filifera palms in humid South Florida. B)

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On 6/3/2017, 2:52:24, Mandrew968 said:

I just took a ton of filifera up to the family farm in the panhandle. I have high hopes for them-they will be in zone 8a and the soil is a sandy quartz meets red clay. Some parts are referred to as hardpan, the clay is so dense. We planted them right off of highway 231, along the top of the drainage ditch.

Ohhhh really i see you like to dig in the scratch and dent bin as well... 

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  Here in the Daytona Beach area , there were ( 70's ) , 2 fairly large Filiferas's growing for a number of years .

They had developed quite fat trunks , and as I remember reached about 28-30 feet in height . They were located at the

Burger King on Nova road , just north of Mason Ave. . The soil there is sandy surface , but has a clayey ( marl ) matrix down just below , and a fairly high

water table .    The palms did well for those years , but eventually began a decline , that seemed to me  , to be the result of the incessant

humidity , and finally they both died .

   Also , here in the area , at the Checkers out near the Speedway , there has been a Brahea for many years . It  is /was being swallowed up and shaded out

by a broadleaf tree , at my last viewing .   I avoid the area , so I am not sure of the current situation .

  Overall , in my observations , deserty stuff will exist here for a time , but in the long run , the humid condition prevails , and decline occurs .

This applies to non palms as well.

 

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15 hours ago, Umbrae said:

Ohhhh really i see you like to dig in the scratch and dent bin as well... 

:floor: that was a good one!

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51 minutes ago, Mandrew968 said:

:floor: that was a good one!

Yeah you giving me a hard time about foxtails and thatch palms as common and trashy and then you go and brag about  planting washies..the dirty  crack whores of all palms

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7 hours ago, Umbrae said:

Yeah you giving me a hard time about foxtails and thatch palms as common and trashy and then you go and brag about  planting washies..the dirty  crack whores of all palms

I knew I struck a nerve-thick skin, huh? 

I asked you where you were located-that makes a huge difference in what you plant, hombre; come see my garden and you will see gems and unicorns. No thatch palms or foxtails in my tropical paradise. But in zone 8, in the panhandle of Florida, choices are slim for planting palms, and a big fat filifera can be quite a nice landscape specimen. 

Having to explain that, it appears you work for the restaurant, rather than own it... :asleep:

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ZHere are some examples of humid climate filifera. First pic is in Kihei, west Maui. Next three are in Kahului Maui.  High UV and alkaline soil

DSCF0641.JPG

SDC11585.JPG

SDC11584.JPG

SDC11583.JPG

Edited by jwitt
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8 hours ago, jwitt said:

ZHere are some examples of humid climate filifera. First pic is in Kihei, west Maui. Next three are in Kahului Maui.  High UV and alkaline soil

DSCF0641.JPG

SDC11585.JPG

SDC11584.JPG

SDC11583.JPG

Volcanic soil, rich in nutrients.  Is it a rainy area?

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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Both are dry but humid.  But Kahului can be very wet at times. Humid, low precipitation, tropical. Zone 13

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