I need one advice

[Monòver]

I was reading long time ago that with "big" Dypsis is better plant them in  ground when small. They have better grow and more speed.

I think this was the experience of MattyB with his Dypsis.

Well, i have lots of small "big" Dypsis. They are jewels for, near impossible to find in Spain. I have Carlsmithi, Nauseosa, ovobontsira, decipiens, etc.

What can i do? I plant it in the ground now or i repot it and wait one or two years more?

This is one example to see the size, one ampasindavae and one sp. Ambanja.

[Matt in OC]

I think that conventional wisdom is probably correct. The problem is that most are very susceptible to sunburn when this young so they will either need canopy or some shade cloth in the ground. I have a couple rare big Dypsis that I will be putting this through this year. They are so slow in pots.

[colin Peters]

My D. carlsmith took off like a rocket once in the ground, and had room to grow. I agree, the sooner in the ground from a reasonable size the better. But, like Matt

says, watch for sunburn. 

aloha

[DoomsDave]

I concur with Matt

Don;t know about Colin;s experience.

Alas

[Hammer]

I seem to recall some general discussion from Matty B on the topic.  If I remember correctly he argued that palms planted out from 5 gallon pots seemed to do best.  

Planting smaller and they weren't ready and died in greater numbers and larger they got stunted, root bound and grew slower than their 5 gallon compatriots. 

Not sure if that was a general discussion or limited to Dypsis. 

[BS Man about Palms]

Depends on the species in my opinion. I do not have much heat, so for me, a small palm will often languish.. so some more opportunity to house or greenhouse grow is a good thing.

 

[Monòver]

Thanks for your advices!

I think my palms are a little bit young and i am a chicken.

I will repot them and wait one year more.

This is not the same, but two years ago i planted one small Archontophoenix myolensis in the ground and other one in pot. After two years, the palm in the ground is 4 times larger.

But Archontos are fast growers and easy to find. I don'y like "play" with my rare Dypsis.

[Phoenikakias]

45 minutes ago, Monòver said:

Thanks for your advices!

I think my palms are a little bit young and i am a chicken.

I will repot them and wait one year more.

This is not the same, but two years ago i planted one small Archontophoenix myolensis in the ground and other one in pot. After two years, the palm in the ground is 4 times larger.

But Archontos are fast growers and easy to find. I don'y like "play" with my rare Dypsis.

To much concern may be equally harmful as indifference. An in situ shade cloth seems to me the best way...

Edited May 24, 2017 by Phoenikakias

[Cindy Adair]

In the jungle, I plant much smaller ones in the ground, but it rains a lot and the soil is good too. 

[Monòver]

15 hours ago, Cindy Adair said:

In the jungle, I plant much smaller ones in the ground, but it rains a lot and the soil is good too. 

I have good soil and here not rains, but the water is not a problem.

The problem is my cool winters, may be too long for a very small Dypsis.

Or not, last year i planted a small prestoniana and after the worst Winter in a long time, it is perfect, no brown spots, no rot, perfect.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Monòver

[Mohsen]

16 hours ago, Monòver said:

I have good soil and here not rains, but the water is not a problem.

The problem is my cool winters, may be too long for a very small Dypsis.

Or not, last year i planted a small prestoniana and after the worst Winter in a long time, it is perfect, no brown spots, no rot, perfect.

I have also many small Dypsis seedlings still in pots...What's the minimum temperature you are having in winter ?

[Monòver]

This last Winter was 1'6 °C, but the maximum the same day was only 5°. With snow and 20 hours after a big storm with lots of hail.

Other Winters was between 2-4°C

[sergiskan]

Good luck with them.

for sure, if it's possible, you thrive them!

[richnorm]

It varies by sp for sure but I would be wary about planting a new purchase straight into the ground.  Best let it acclimatize for a season and then wait until root bound.  Sometimes I plant in the pot which I feel reduces root shock for some sp but can be a source of setback for others....    Planting among other plants as temporary cover can also have good results as it reduces extremes of light, temperature, and humidity but you have to be mindful of root competition and moisture levels.   Good to take  advice from others but you need to learn your own microclimates and soil variations when growing in marginal conditions.  Very small things can be the difference between success and failure....

[Monòver]

Thanks Richnorm!

I am agree, of course, the best is my own experience. My climate, soil, water is different, but for a spanish grower one mistake can be a disaster.

We don't have sources to buy rare palms. We must buy seeds and wait a very long time or buy small seedlings in other countries with high prices.

If i plant one rare palm and i don't have luck, i can't buy other palm. I must buy seeds and wait may be 3-4 four years to have other opportunity.

[richnorm]

17 minutes ago, Monòver said:

Thanks Richnorm!

I am agree, of course, the best is my own experience. My climate, soil, water is different, but for a spanish grower one mistake can be a disaster.

We don't have sources to buy rare palms. We must buy seeds and wait a very long time or buy small seedlings in other countries with high prices.

If i plant one rare palm and i don't have luck, i can't buy other palm. I must buy seeds and wait may be 3-4 four years to have other opportunity.

Believe me I know about the difficulties of building a collection.  We no longer have any local growers and cannot import plants. Seed importation is highly controlled and limited to those sp that were proved to be growing here in 1997! But palms still give me a lot of pleasure and the fascination doesn't seem to diminish despite all the obstacles and the passage of time.

[Phoenikakias]

15 hours ago, Monòver said:

This last Winter was 1'6 °C, but the maximum the same day was only 5°. With snow and 20 hours after a big storm with lots of hail.

Other Winters was between 2-4°C

Very funny, my absolute minimun this year had been 2 Celsius degrees lower than yours but the maximum on same day almost one degree higher...

[Phoenikakias]

I can only  tell a little personal experience. Ravenea glauca is the cold hardiest of the genus but for various reasons it can not grow easily in mediterranean climates like mine and in Italy. I have tried twice with this sp. First time I planted an older juvenile with several pinnate fronds. It sulked and died during winter. Second time I was given a seedling on the third leaf, which was planted on the same spot as the older one. Only this time I used an in situ protection in the form of a vertical tube with an openingon top (opening was created by by wrapping flexible plastic sheet around a reversed plastic bottle net.  This method worked perfectly! The seedling did continue growing inside the protection at first slowly but steadily and later at a faster rate, and when it was set free after three years it did not get stressed.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Phoenikakias

[Hammer]

1 hour ago, richnorm said:

Believe me I know about the difficulties of building a collection.  We no longer have any local growers and cannot import plants. Seed importation is highly controlled and limited to those sp that were proved to be growing here in 1997! But palms still give me a lot of pleasure and the fascination doesn't seem to diminish despite all the obstacles and the passage of time.

Why 1997?  That seems so arbitrary.

[richnorm]

10 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Why 1997?  That seems so arbitrary.

That was the date new rules came in. Effectively they banned any new species.  Not that we have a problem with palms becoming weeds but try explaining that to eco bureaucrats!

 

[Mohsen]

16 hours ago, Monòver said:

This last Winter was 1'6 °C, but the maximum the same day was only 5°. With snow and 20 hours after a big storm with lots of hail.

Other Winters was between 2-4°C

We might have near low temp here but no one has remembered snow hear and the lowest max temp in winter not lower than 12c ...also as soon as we have rain temp would not ever be lower than 7c...still I'm very fearful about my seedlings in winter ...  

[Phoenikakias]

11 minutes ago, richnorm said:

That was the date new rules came in. Effectively they banned any new species.  Not that we have a problem with palms becoming weeds but try explaining that to eco bureaucrats!

 

I can guess what major concer and equally major political attitude hides behind this practice, but to record all cultivated spp in the whole subcontinent (NZ is regarded as a subcontinent or not?), that sounds to me quite totalitarian.

[Mohsen]

16 hours ago, Monòver said:

This last Winter was 1'6 °C, but the maximum the same day was only 5°. With snow and 20 hours after a big storm with lots of hail.

Other Winters was between 2-4°C

34 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

I can only  tell a little personal experience. Ravenea glauca is the cold hardiest of the genus but for various reasons it can not grow easily in mediterranean climates like mine and in Italy. I have tried twice with this sp. First time I planted an older juvenile with several pinnate fronds. It sulked and died during winter. Second time I was given a seedling on the third leaf, which was planted on the same spot as the older one. Only this time I used an in situ protection in the form of a vertical tube with an openingon top (opening was created by by wrapping flexible plastic sheet around a reversed plastic bottle net.  This method worked perfectly! The seedling did continue growing inside the protection at first slowly but steadily and later at a faster rate, and when it was set free after three years it did not get stressed.

Konstantinos, I had the same failure with R.Glauca, I suspect mine failed as the result of full sun...

and how about R.Hildebrandtii? Have you tried them ?

[Phoenikakias]

Nope, to tender for my winter!

[Monòver]

9 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Very funny, my absolute minimun this year had been 2 Celsius degrees lower than yours but the maximum on same day almost one degree higher...

 

8 hours ago, Mohsen said:

We might have near low temp here but no one has remembered snow hear and the lowest max temp in winter not lower than 12c ...also as soon as we have rain temp would not ever be lower than 7c...still I'm very fearful about my seedlings in winter ...  

This was a crazy week. Min temp 1'6° is not a record, but max 5°, yes , it was lowest max recorded. Common winters we have a medium max between 16-20° and the lowest max never is below 12°C.

The snow was other crazy record, first time snowing in 90 years!!!!

This is the beach, near my house

But the worst arrived after the snow and the cold. The 24 hours after the snow we had a big storm with lots of hail and 60 liters per square meter. This day the max temp was 12° after the storm, but during the storm the temps was 6-8°C.

I think we had 36 hours below 8°C, snow, hail and very cold rain

But after this, small palms like Carpoxilon macrospermum, Pinanga coronata or Dypsis cabadae  totally unprotected are alive and recovering.

[Hammer]

9 hours ago, richnorm said:

That was the date new rules came in. Effectively they banned any new species.  Not that we have a problem with palms becoming weeds but try explaining that to eco bureaucrats!

 

Yeesh.  

[DoomsDave]

On 5/23/2017, 10:50:11, Monòver said:

I was reading long time ago that with "big" Dypsis is better plant them in  ground when small. They have better grow and more speed.

I think this was the experience of MattyB with his Dypsis.

Well, i have lots of small "big" Dypsis. They are jewels for, near impossible to find in Spain. I have Carlsmithi, Nauseosa, ovobontsira, decipiens, etc.

What can i do? I plant it in the ground now or i repot it and wait one or two years more?

This is one example to see the size, one ampasindavae and one sp. Ambanja.

I think, given where you are, up north (yes it's true) bigger is better, I concur with Bill BSMAN.

si si

So give your babies bigger pots and more time, and plant out in 2020? maybe?

Ole!

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, Monòver said:

 

This was a crazy week. Min temp 1'6° is not a record, but max 5°, yes , it was lowest max recorded. Common winters we have a medium max between 16-20° and the lowest max never is below 12°C.

The snow was other crazy record, first time snowing in 90 years!!!!

This is the beach, near my house

But the worst arrived after the snow and the cold. The 24 hours after the snow we had a big storm with lots of hail and 60 liters per square meter. This day the max temp was 12° after the storm, but during the storm the temps was 6-8°C.

I think we had 36 hours below 8°C, snow, hail and very cold rain

But after this, small palms like Carpoxilon macrospermum, Pinanga coronata or Dypsis cabadae  totally unprotected are alive and recovering.

OUCH

but

survival

mucha buena

keep us advised

(dear god snow in Spain, this late? )

[Mohsen]

16 hours ago, Monòver said:

 

This was a crazy week. Min temp 1'6° is not a record, but max 5°, yes , it was lowest max recorded. Common winters we have a medium max between 16-20° and the lowest max never is below 12°C.

The snow was other crazy record, first time snowing in 90 years!!!!

This is the beach, near my house

But the worst arrived after the snow and the cold. The 24 hours after the snow we had a big storm with lots of hail and 60 liters per square meter. This day the max temp was 12° after the storm, but during the storm the temps was 6-8°C.

I think we had 36 hours below 8°C, snow, hail and very cold rain

But after this, small palms like Carpoxilon macrospermum, Pinanga coronata or Dypsis cabadae  totally unprotected are alive and recovering.

It was a terrible weather , hopefully won't repeat for another 90 years and glad your seedlings went through it alive