How far north...Mule palm

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Crossing butia with Santa Catarina highland queens make even hardier mules, as trialed in England.  Maybe Nigel would chime in.  My JxB is probably 10 years old and the leaves look almost all jubaea.  Maybe another 10-15 years for it to flower.  I'd love to make that cross.

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On 8/21/2017, 1:14:40, ErikSJI said:

Three hours south of Dallas. Todd Mission Texas. 100s of Mule palms of various sizes planted. Temps in the teens and snow. Owner tells me they bounce back every year.

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This place is near magnolia on the northwest side of houston. Very warm 8b/9a.  They have thousands of various palms on this 200 acre property.  

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I have a mule in a 90 gallon trash can at my home in SE Virginia.  I can't remember it's exact height, but maybe 8 feet above the soil.  It is definitely too cold here on the edge barely inside zone 8a without protection.  But that's the key, protection.  After msny failures and damaged palms, I am learning better ways to protect each year.

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On 8/11/2017, 2:08:17, Joe NC said:
On 5/22/2017, 4:48:20, Joe NC said:

WP_20161007_028.thumb.jpg.3e30f639e1520a      

This is a photo last year sometime pre-hurricane Matthew.  It is already bigger now. 

IMAG0346.thumb.jpg.6577600be56c72f2ab005

One year since the above photo.  I'm going to have to re-think my protection plan...

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8 hours ago, Joe NC said:

One year since the above photo.  I'm going to have to re-think my protection plan...

Yepp, last years method probably wont fit after that much growth!

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Nice growth!  My mule is a about a foot shorter than your "last year" photo, but it hasn't been in the ground for more than 7 consecutive months.  I'm hoping mine will start to take off soon - so far it's mostly just added girth but not much height yet.  Hopefully you'll get a mild winter and not have much problem with protection.  I used to live near N. Topsail Beach so I know how cold it can get there at times.

Jon

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On 5/30/2017, 12:49:40, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Butia Capitata are hardier than Mules though, and they even struggle at times in zone 8A.    Beyond 8A even those need full winter protection.

Here in the Wilmington, NC, area, which is a modest 8A, Butia's are extremely common.  There are only a handful of palms that will grow in this zone, so Butia's, with their exotic, pinnate look, are the top choice for majesty and elegance.  The specimens around these parts are astoundingly beautiful, and honestly, I believe they hold up better than sabal palmettos, which are native to the area.  I just moved into a rental home 2 weeks ago and the specimen in my front yard is pretty magnificent.  This home was built in 2006, so the palm has clearly been growing in the front yard for 11 years.

z0ilK7yh.jpg

And I don't have anywhere close to the most impressive one even on my street.  Some of the Butia's in older developments are even more impressive.  It's rare to see any frond burn at all.  They absolutely love this climate of hot, humid summers.  That may be the more defining factor than the hardiness zone.  They may require a certain amount of time in 90 degree heat with high humidity to perform.

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14 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

Here in the Wilmington, NC, area, which is a modest 8A, Butia's are extremely common.  There are only a handful of palms that will grow in this zone, so Butia's, with their exotic, pinnate look, are the top choice for majesty and elegance.  The specimens around these parts are astoundingly beautiful, and honestly, I believe they hold up better than sabal palmettos, which are native to the area.  I just moved into a rental home 2 weeks ago and the specimen in my front yard is pretty magnificent.  This home was built in 2006, so the palm has clearly been growing in the front yard for 11 years.

z0ilK7yh.jpg

And I don't have anywhere close to the most impressive one even on my street.  Some of the Butia's in older developments are even more impressive.  It's rare to see any frond burn at all.  They absolutely love this climate of hot, humid summers.  That may be the more defining factor than the hardiness zone.  They may require a certain amount of time in 90 degree heat with high humidity to perform.

I disagree with you on this one.  In the decade I've been here in Wilmington, I've never witnessed a Sabal with winter damage.  Sabal might look like crap as recent transplants from Florida that are struggling when establishing, from the horrible overpruning that people think they "need", or have some yellowing and ratty tips from missing nutrients, but they never show any serous winter damage (even after some awful ice storms).  While there are some really really large and nice Butia around, they definitely suffer winter damage especially when it is wet then freezes in the crown.  There were many damaged pindo palms around with burned fronds and damaged emerging spears after some of the cold (low teens) and wet (snow and ice storms) winters we have had.  There are even some dead carcasses of some still standing around town that did not survive the back to back icy wet winters of 2015-2016(?).  They are now all looking really good this summer because last winter was fairly mild (minus one night) and they have had two seasons to recover from the 2015-16 damage.  The more winter finicky pindos eventually get culled, and the tougher ones persist.  Also as a side note, there is some sort of Pindo funk (fungus?) that some large ones will catch in the summer, where the newest spears will brown and die then the rest of the palm will slowly follow over the course of a few months.  I've seen it happen to several Buita palms I drive bay daily, and one of mine caught it as well.     

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8 hours ago, Joe NC said:

I disagree with you on this one.  In the decade I've been here in Wilmington, I've never witnessed a Sabal with winter damage.  Sabal might look like crap as recent transplants from Florida that are struggling when establishing, from the horrible overpruning that people think they "need", or have some yellowing and ratty tips from missing nutrients, but they never show any serous winter damage (even after some awful ice storms).  While there are some really really large and nice Butia around, they definitely suffer winter damage especially when it is wet then freezes in the crown.  There were many damaged pindo palms around with burned fronds and damaged emerging spears after some of the cold (low teens) and wet (snow and ice storms) winters we have had.  There are even some dead carcasses of some still standing around town that did not survive the back to back icy wet winters of 2015-2016(?).  They are now all looking really good this summer because last winter was fairly mild (minus one night) and they have had two seasons to recover from the 2015-16 damage.  The more winter finicky pindos eventually get culled, and the tougher ones persist.  Also as a side note, there is some sort of Pindo funk (fungus?) that some large ones will catch in the summer, where the newest spears will brown and die then the rest of the palm will slowly follow over the course of a few months.  I've seen it happen to several Buita palms I drive bay daily, and one of mine caught it as well.     

I never said sabal palmettos are suffering winter damage.  I said the Butia's planted in Wilmington typically look better than the sabal palmettos, which are native to the area.  It's true many of the sabal palmetto's around are Florida transplants.  However, all the trees in my neighborhood were planted at the same time.  The sabal palmettos are from 2006 as well.  While they are good looking, very mature specimens, sabals usually have browned, lower fronts.  Maybe that's just part of the species, but it is unsightly.  Butia's don't do that, at least to that degree.

 

If you drive around my neighborhood, Wrightsville Beach, Carolina Beach, etc....the butia's looks better than the sabals.

 

I am impressed by how hardy the pindo palm is.  You'd think they were natives, they're so common around these parts.

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8 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

I never said sabal palmettos are suffering winter damage.  I said the Butia's planted in Wilmington typically look better than the sabal palmettos, which are native to the area.

Sorry I just interpreted holding up as surviving, and I meant that in my experience pindos can take a hit in the winter and often look bad here where Sabals won't.  Hopefully I didn't come off as a jerk.  It's a handful of nights every year that really limit what we can pull off.  Sabals can definitely get a ratty look to them here, and the brutal pruning doesn't help. 

If you are into Pindos, there is an epic one Downtown on Anne between 2nd and 3rd.       

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.231753,-77.9462192,3a,75y,324.53h,82.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6P1AlkE0WKOQB8xwS9LqEQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Streetview doesn't do it justice, and I've wondered if it has some Jubaea in it based on how massive the trunk is.  I've never tried to stop by and find any seeds to see if they are large like a bxj.  

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