Yet another Sabal mexicana survives a south central Kansas winter!

[jfrye01@live.com]

Checking around the yard today, I noticed something very surprising on a palm I had given up for dead...this Sabal mexicana was planted as a one gallon strapling last summer, northeast side of the house (I know, worst place to plant palms, but I'm out of room! ).  When winter came, I didn't have the means to protect it, as I had several other larger palms I wanted to keep healthy, so I said goodbye to it and gave it up for dead...and it appeared so as of last week, completely brown, so I planned to dig it out and replace with something else. I'm glad I waited, as today, I noticed this:  

It lives! It may not look like much, but here in Kansas, I'll take what I can get...I love experimenting with different palms, some of them are far hardier than given credit for! 

Happy spring to those in the Northern Hemisphere, to those in the southern hemisphere, well, I wish you as happy a fall as can be!

-Jacob

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

This doesn't surprise me, Mexicana in pots freeze completely and still live after 15 degrees.  I suspect it will live until it starts to trunk.

[jfrye01@live.com]

14 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

This doesn't surprise me, Mexicana in pots freeze completely and still live after 15 degrees.  I suspect it will live until it starts to trunk.

They're tough palms! I have an older one that is starting to trunk, currently I protect it with two barrels stacked together...once it's too big for that (probably next winter), I'll wrap the trunk with insulation...we'll see what happens. Everything up here is one big experiment.  

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

11 hours ago, jfrye01@live.com said:

They're tough palms! I have an older one that is starting to trunk, currently I protect it with two barrels stacked together...once it's too big for that (probably next winter), I'll wrap the trunk with insulation...we'll see what happens. Everything up here is one big experiment.  

These blue mountain form Sabal Uresana seem to be as hardy or hardier than the Mexicana. I had a few leaf straplings in 1G pots that hit 13F and they never burned.  The only other small palm that wasn't phased was N. Ritcheana.  1G armata spear pulled and came back, S. Rosei burned, pushed right through, causarium lost the spear and miraculously came back. Brahea acculeata also came back. All Trachycarpus and med fans in 1G died as did a lot of 5G.  All 3-7G butia died.

[Ben OK]

Glad to see the new growth Jacob. It's always nice to see something bounce back when you think it is a gonner.

[Ben OK]

On 4/29/2017, 9:38:26, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

This doesn't surprise me, Mexicana in pots freeze completely and still live after 15 degrees.  I suspect it will live until it starts to trunk.

I have a plastic tub with about 12 mexicanas in it that are all around 12"-18" tall. All of my potted palms had their pots frozen solid this year at about 20F. I've had potted palms out in those kinds of temps before, but this time they were all still wet from a rain from a couple of days prior. 

By the time I moved them all into a garage they were rock hard they were so frozen. I lost a small (1 gal) trachycarpus, some seedling sabals, and had spears pull on several other trachycarpus...but the mexicanas look perfect. I was pretty surprised they didn't show any damage after having their roots frozen solid.

[jfrye01@live.com]

On 4/30/2017, 9:41:58, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

These blue mountain form Sabal Uresana seem to be as hardy or hardier than the Mexicana. I had a few leaf straplings in 1G pots that hit 13F and they never burned.  The only other small palm that wasn't phased was N. Ritcheana.  1G armata spear pulled and came back, S. Rosei burned, pushed right through, causarium lost the spear and miraculously came back. Brahea acculeata also came back. All Trachycarpus and med fans in 1G died as did a lot of 5G.  All 3-7G butia died.

My friend Raymond has a Nannorrhops growing as part of his church landscaping here in Wichita, it burned back heavily this winter but did survive...I also have a friend in Fort Worth who is growing Sabal uresana and Brahea armata, he lost one of his Uresana, but he told me it was already fairly weakened going into winter. His other one pulled through very well.   In my opinion, the most impressive Sabal mexicana I have come across is the one at Taco Cabana up in Sherman,  I stopped for lunch there on the way home from Dallas back in January.  There is a large mexicana growing out front that looked the same way it would in the middle of summer.  No damage whatsoever, IIRC, Sherman saw temps around 10F back in January.  There was a young (presumably volunteer) palm growing on the north side of the patio area that had light tip damage, but nothing extreme.  I made sure to grab a handful of seeds off the mature palm while nobody was looking ;) 

[jfrye01@live.com]

8 hours ago, Ben OK said:

I have a plastic tub with about 12 mexicanas in it that are all around 12"-18" tall. All of my potted palms had their pots frozen solid this year at about 20F. I've had potted palms out in those kinds of temps before, but this time they were all still wet from a rain from a couple of days prior. 

By the time I moved them all into a garage they were rock hard they were so frozen. I lost a small (1 gal) trachycarpus, some seedling sabals, and had spears pull on several other trachycarpus...but the mexicanas look perfect. I was pretty surprised they didn't show any damage after having their roots frozen solid.

In my experience, trachycarpus is wimpy when young.  There were a couple of nights over the winter when my greenhouse wasn't heated, and as fate would have it, they were some of the coldest nights we had.  I think we saw high single digits one of those nights...killed all but one Dallas hybrid washingtonia, spears pulled on both my trachies, but my young strapling Sabals (mexicana, palmetto, louisiana, minor, and brazoria) looked no worse for the wear...

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

1g windmills die at 20f and ice in pots. I lost several 5g at 12-13f this year.   Once they form a 6-8" diameter trunk they start to become cold hardy in pots.

[Ben OK]

45 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

1g windmills die at 20f and ice in pots. I lost several 5g at 12-13f this year.   Once they form a 6-8" diameter trunk they start to become cold hardy in pots.

That's good information to know. I've never been observant enough to get any idea of what size windmills are when they get tougher in a pot...but your statement correlates well with my windmills this winter. My two largest are a both wagnerianus. The largest has a thick trunk about two feet tall. I dug it up from my last house in Oklahoma City last August when I moved. It was totally unfazed by being frozen in it's pot. 

My smaller wagnerianus is borderline on the size you mentioned in your post. It had a little damage on it's newest spear, but it never pulled. 

I'm excited to finish building my house in the next month or so. I want to get my palms in the ground in a more permanent home.

[Ben OK]

9 hours ago, jfrye01@live.com said:

My friend Raymond has a Nannorrhops growing as part of his church landscaping here in Wichita, it burned back heavily this winter but did survive...I also have a friend in Fort Worth who is growing Sabal uresana and Brahea armata, he lost one of his Uresana, but he told me it was already fairly weakened going into winter. His other one pulled through very well.   In my opinion, the most impressive Sabal mexicana I have come across is the one at Taco Cabana up in Sherman,  I stopped for lunch there on the way home from Dallas back in January.  There is a large mexicana growing out front that looked the same way it would in the middle of summer.  No damage whatsoever, IIRC, Sherman saw temps around 10F back in January.  There was a young (presumably volunteer) palm growing on the north side of the patio area that had light tip damage, but nothing extreme.  I made sure to grab a handful of seeds off the mature palm while nobody was looking ;) 

I'm surprised that nannorrhops survived a Wichita winter. I haven't tried any myself because I was under the impression they were solid zone 8 or warmer palms. I have wanted to try the supposedly more hardy green "kashmir" form, but I haven't seen any seeds of palms of that form available for a couple of years now.

How big is the one there in Wichita? Did it get any protection? And is it any particular form/ecotype?

The only nannorrhops I've seen in person was a mature specimen for sale several years ago in Paris TX. I turned around on the highway headed to Texarkana, because I couldn't believe my eyes. Sure enough a pool dealer had some large palms for sale that had been there a while. Their pots had basically disintegrated and their roots were in the ground.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

11 hours ago, Ben OK said:

I'm surprised that nannorrhops survived a Wichita winter. I haven't tried any myself because I was under the impression they were solid zone 8 or warmer palms. I have wanted to try the supposedly more hardy green "kashmir" form, but I haven't seen any seeds of palms of that form available for a couple of years now.

How big is the one there in Wichita? Did it get any protection? And is it any particular form/ecotype?

The only nannorrhops I've seen in person was a mature specimen for sale several years ago in Paris TX. I turned around on the highway headed to Texarkana, because I couldn't believe my eyes. Sure enough a pool dealer had some large palms for sale that had been there a while. Their pots had basically disintegrated and their roots were in the ground.

The N. ritcheana is a true zone 7 palm. The paper white N. arabica is a 9b when small.  Bismarckia are far hardier than n. Arabica.  I have the ritcheana in liners, 1gallons and big ones like pictured below. Luckily they are starting to catch on around here.

[Ben OK]

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The N. ritcheana is a true zone 7 palm. The paper white N. arabica is a 9b when small.  Bismarckia are far hardier than n. Arabica.  I have the ritcheana in liners, 1gallons and big ones like pictured below. Luckily they are starting to catch on around here.

That's a beautiful planting. I hope they continue to gain popularity. I think they are a great looking palm when reasonably pruned. (like in your photo) Plus, it's hard to go wrong in the DFW area with drought tolerant, heat tolerant, and no thorns/spines.

If you think they are a true zone 7 palm, I will probably buy some liners or some seed from you at some point. I am a month to six weeks away from moving into a house that I am building right now. My entire collection of palms (and anything else I thought was worth bringing with me from OKC) are sitting around in pots. So I want to get some of this mess of plants into the ground before adding to my collection...but I am always planning my next addition 

Just out of curiosity, how would you rate the hardiness of trithrinax campestris? Their native range makes me think they should be pretty hardy, but I've also been told by others that it is a zone 8 or warmer kind of palm. I've also heard that it is a little tricky until it gains some size...which I hear takes quite a while.

[jfrye01@live.com]

On 5/2/2017, 9:34:31, Ben OK said:

I'm surprised that nannorrhops survived a Wichita winter. I haven't tried any myself because I was under the impression they were solid zone 8 or warmer palms. I have wanted to try the supposedly more hardy green "kashmir" form, but I haven't seen any seeds of palms of that form available for a couple of years now.

How big is the one there in Wichita? Did it get any protection? And is it any particular form/ecotype?

The only nannorrhops I've seen in person was a mature specimen for sale several years ago in Paris TX. I turned around on the highway headed to Texarkana, because I couldn't believe my eyes. Sure enough a pool dealer had some large palms for sale that had been there a while. Their pots had basically disintegrated and their roots were in the ground.

The nannorrhops is about 8" tall right now, as it froze back nearly to the ground over winter...lol...other than being on the south side of the church building, it did not receive any further protection...

[jfrye01@live.com]

On 5/2/2017, 9:25:42, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The N. ritcheana is a true zone 7 palm. The paper white N. arabica is a 9b when small.  Bismarckia are far hardier than n. Arabica.  I have the ritcheana in liners, 1gallons and big ones like pictured below. Luckily they are starting to catch on around here.

I've noticed them becoming increasingly popular in DFW...the newest In-N-Out in Fort Worth has some planted along the drive thru, I noticed them last spring...great to see! Great planting there! 

[jfrye01@live.com]

Currently coming up on midnight here, had to grab an updated shot of this baby...81F at 11:55PM at my house. Sure keeps things cranking throughout the night!