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Royal palms sure cant handle the salt (or sand)


Mr.SamuraiSword

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On our last day in Florida we stopped at Indian rocks beach near st petersburg.  I noticed that the royals in the area looked like they had taken a beating over the winter.  But I noticed the less common coconuts looked quite a bit better.  I decided it must be the salt spray and the more sandy ground especially on the beachfrony.  Here are a few examples.  The royals and foxtails look horrible compared to the coconut this is right on the beach.

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another angle

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even the older royals more away from the beach didnt look to great.  this one was behind a resteraunt named after me.  Great grouper sandwiches there.

5900a5e5b2cf4_Screenshot2017-04-26at9.43

compared to these coconuts the royals look beaten up.  I think its becuse the habitat of royals is usually in jungles, and wetland areas away from the ocean.

This pair were on the side of a building on the water.

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same with this one

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in comparison to the more hardy royals and foxtails I think coconuts should be planted more in this area.

another foxtail

l5900a70d9e51b_Screenshot2017-04-26at9.54

a coconut group

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It seems weird how there are many more foxtails and royals even though the coconuts look much better in terms of sandy and windy conditions.

This might be becuse of the 2010-2011 freeze and people assume coconuts wont survive in the area well.  

 

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I do not consider Royals or Foxtails to be frontline beach palms. I have Foxtails about 100 mts from the beach and they do show some salt burn. My Royals are 400mts from the beach and have never shown salt burn.

El Oasis - beach garden, distinct wet/dry season ,year round 20-38c

Las Heliconias - jungle garden ,800m elevation,150+ inches rainfall, year round 15-28c

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9 minutes ago, scottgt said:

I do not consider Royals or Foxtails to be frontline beach palms. I have Foxtails about 100 mts from the beach and they do show some salt burn. My Royals are 400mts from the beach and have never shown salt burn.

I find it strange even how in pine island they dont look great on the waterfront even though the island is protected by the barrier island cayo casta.  These are in Bokeelia

5900aeba6d46d_Screenshot2017-04-26at10.2 20170407_120100.jpg.380e9bf507f942fec9e4

Edited by Mr.SamuraiSword
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10 minutes ago, scottgt said:

I do not consider Royals or Foxtails to be frontline beach palms. I have Foxtails about 100 mts from the beach and they do show some salt burn. My Royals are 400mts from the beach and have never shown salt burn.

I find it odd that in many areas of south florida they use royals, foxtails and even christmas palms as frontline beach palms.  yes I agree sabal palmetto palms are overused as many houses on the waterfront sometimes plant just sabals even though coconuts would work there too  especially on manasota key some more coconuts would help the waterfront as the royals foxtails and christmas palms look beautiful and healthy everywhere except the beachfront.  

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10 minutes ago, scottgt said:

I do not consider Royals or Foxtails to be frontline beach palms. I have Foxtails about 100 mts from the beach and they do show some salt burn. My Royals are 400mts from the beach and have never shown salt burn.

I find it odd that in many areas of south florida they use royals, foxtails and even christmas palms as frontline beach palms.  yes I agree sabal palmetto palms are overused as many houses on the waterfront sometimes plant just sabals even though coconuts would work there too  especially on manasota key some more coconuts would help the waterfront as the royals foxtails and christmas palms look beautiful and healthy everywhere except the beachfront.  

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Coconuts love the salt. I remember an Indian guy who grew them in New Delhi who swore they did better when given buckets of salt water from time to time. Very few plants can take the salt, but Coconut is one of them.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I have never seen a healthy looking beachfront Royal. People plant these like crazy on the beach apparently not knowing this at the time of planting. 

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I do not agree with your drive by analysis (misinformation).  We are in a severe drought and some people irrigate, and some do not.  I have grown numerous royals on the waterfront w/o any problems along with hundreds of other people.

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24 minutes ago, Mike Evans said:

I do not agree with your drive by analysis (misinformation).  We are in a severe drought and some people irrigate, and some do not.  I have grown numerous royals on the waterfront w/o any problems along with hundreds of other people.

By "the waterfront" are you referring to within 50ft beach dunes near a pure salt ocean? If so please tell me the secret? Behind a tall condo blocking salt wind?

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We don't get the kind of salt spray on our coast that they get in the Brevard county area. The damage in those pictures is due to the severe drought that we're currently experiencing, and the beachfront areas get hit worse because the soil is more sandy and loses water more quickly.

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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2 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

We don't get the kind of salt spray on our coast that they get in the Brevard county area. The damage in those pictures is due to the severe drought that we're currently experiencing, and the beachfront areas get hit worse because the soil is more sandy and loses water more quickly.

In Brevard it is well known that royals hate salt spray and it shows. Perhaps I should not assume that all areas of Florida receive the same dose of salt on or near the dunes. Thanks 

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7 minutes ago, Cocoa Beach Jason said:

By "the waterfront" are you referring to within 50ft beach dunes near a pure salt ocean? If so please tell me the secret? Behind a tall condo blocking salt wind?

By the waterfront, I mean 6' from a seawall and occasionally submerged under salt water during tropical storms.  What makes things worse on the waterfront is the sandy conditions that dry out faster and higher winds that desiccate the leaves.    

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Just now, Cocoa Beach Jason said:

In Brevard it is well known that royals hate salt spray and it shows. Perhaps I should not assume that all areas of Florida receive the same dose of salt on or near the dunes. Thanks 

In Brevard you can actually see the saltspray quite a distance from the ocean. I was very surprised by that when I first saw it. The Gulf is like a giant bathtub in comparison.

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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6 minutes ago, Mike Evans said:

By the waterfront, I mean 6' from a seawall and occasionally submerged under salt water during tropical storms.  What makes things worse on the waterfront is the sandy conditions that dry out faster and higher winds that desiccate the leaves.    

I've seen first-hand that royals hate the salt-spray that they get in Brevard, but also that they can be submerged in saltwater down in Fairchild/Montgomery during King Tide and not show any damage. I guess it's not a big deal in their roots as long as it's not that often.

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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I live on a brackish/mostly salt canal on the banana river lagoon and I have a royal right near it too with no problems. But I'm a quarter mile from the ocean. I'm just far enough away that the salt spray isn't too bad.

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On 26/4/2017, 6:17:02, DoomsDave said:

Coconuts love the salt. I remember an Indian guy who grew them in New Delhi who swore they did better when given buckets of salt water from time to time. Very few plants can take the salt, but Coconut is one of them.

Theophrastus describes how people in middle east used to pure salt in to soil around date palms in the groves.

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A little windy this morning, my neighbors royals have a little burn on ocean side fronds, usually look great. Cocos, foxtails and washies also do fine here next to ocean. Sonora can be very difficult with the extreme heat and humidity in summer, these palms handle it well.

IMG_20170428_075840.jpg

IMG_20170428_075912.jpg

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On 4/26/2017, 2:33:30, Cocoa Beach Jason said:

I have never seen a healthy looking beachfront Royal. People plant these like crazy on the beach apparently not knowing this at the time of planting. 

Yep :-( I was unaware when I planted mine. She's still beautiful to me, but she ain't what I remembered royals looked like in the Glades. I think they look better on Sanibel than out here. We just get too much wind and salt spray.

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Here in Cali, beachfront Royals are not so good.

Dunno about salt. But they don't like the cool. They look like bowling pins in drag.

A bit more heat, even on a coastal bluff overlooking the beach, can make all the difference.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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The royals even look like that in Fort Lauderdale.  They just are not well suited to the strong salty winds / salt spray from the ocean.   There, they are not used much at least that I saw, as ocean front palms.  Mainly cocos and some sabal palmetto. There are some royals a block back from the ocean front, and even those look terrible.  I don't think its as much sand as it is just the salt spray and salty winds.  Go inland even just several blocks and they look great there, and are growing in sand.  Everything there is basically sand / sandy loam.  My friends yard a mile from the ocean is more sand than anything else as is that entire neighborhood and there are plenty of HUGE royals and foxtails there that look fantastic.  

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