Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

When Rats Attack !!


Darold Petty

Recommended Posts

I have several Hedyscepe palms in my garden. The largest one has been extremely fecund.  For the last few years it has developed a large and fertile spadix with each internode, and these have pollinated the female flowers of the previous spadix.  This palm has 5 active spadices with seeds developing on each one.  The seed development here in my cool, humid climate has been very slow, even for this species, perhaps because it is growing so many seeds concurrently( about 200 or 300).  These seeds are not bothered by rodents while they are green and growing.  However, when the epicarp begins to color from green to red then the roof rats (Rattus rattus) will start eating the not-yet mature seeds.

  At first my response was to use live-catch box traps, as there is no risk of injury to non-target animals.  I baited these traps with salami, peanut butter, and stinky cheese.  The rats spurned all the bait and continued to feed exclusively on the Hedyscepe seeds. The damage was worsening from day to day. Unfortunately I had to leave home for about 8 days, when I returned the rats had eaten about 80% of the seed crop.  I had already committed to sending seed to Spain and Australia. 

 

IMG_4321.JPG

IMG_4347.JPG

IMG_4348_1.JPG

  • Upvote 2

San Francisco, California

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  My only response was to encase the spadices with wire mesh to protect the remaining seeds.  Once the rats develop a taste for Hedyscepe endosperm they will ignore any bait or trap and the predation will increase from day to day.  I paid a lot of money for this special rat bait, with overnight shipping, but it was worthless.  I still have enough  seeds to send a small amount to my Palmtalkers, but I have lost the majority of the seeds.

Don't procrastinate as I did, and use wire to protect your seeds at the first sign of rat damage. 

IMG_4387.JPG

IMG_4388.JPG

IMG_4389.JPG

  • Upvote 6

San Francisco, California

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 cats cured my rodent and squirrel  problem. Now i only need traps for possum and racoons. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Possums and Armadillos... darn things seem like they are trying to dig post holes in my yard.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aaggghhhh. That's heartbreaking stuff.

I've got to get some Talon bait for rats today. They move through the area in gangs. If the weather is cooling off and your house is nice and warm they'll just move in and munch everything they can around your house and garden.

The best thing I ever found for rats was poisoned grain (Bromakil) but you must keep it out of the way of birds or they'll get poisoned too. OK for roof cavities (unless you have birds in your roof). Probably different in the US though with different names etc.

Real sorry to see this though.

 

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah yes, rats!  The Phoenix area has been invaded by citrus rates shipped in to Arizona from China.  These are ugly fiends and will eat anything in sight including wiring in the attic which will cause a fire and eventually burn a house down.

My neighbor has 5 dogs that they feed and allow the rats to eat.  Also, they refuse to clean out their citrus trees (which would be an easy solution to getting rid of them).

Anyway, I heard on the radio a couple of years ago about a person in California that had come up with a recipe for getting rid of rats.  I've tried this and have given it to my neighbor to use - and it has cut down on the rat population.

This is what the recipe calls for:

a thin layer of oatmeal

a dusting of plaster of paris

and a layer of Captain Crunch on top.

Ok, it sounds weird, but it does work.  The rats will clean the dish clean, and the plaster will harden inside.  This will not affect animals up the food chain!

Try it.  Good luck!

rod

phoenix, az

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

The best thing I ever found for rats was poisoned grain (Bromakil) but you must keep it out of the way of birds or they'll get poisoned too. OK for roof cavities (unless you have birds in your roof). Probably different in the US though with different names etc.

Rat poison is problematic for a number of reasons.  You mentioned other animals consuming the corpses and thus ingesting the poison, which is a big reason.  I have also twice experienced the other problem, which is when they die inside walls of a structure.  Happened in an office adjacent to the warehouse at work, which required tearing out the drywall to find where they died.  Happened again at my Carlsbad house which is a rental.  I asked my tenants not to put out poison for rats in an outside shed, and provided traps instead.  They caught some, and of course while we were on vacation the smell started between inside the house and attached garage.  Had to hire a pest control service, as we were in NZ, half a world away.  They died inside the wall, and everyone said they didn't poison.  Only problem was that the droppings indicated they had been poisoned according to the pest control contractor we hired.  Someone, perhaps a neighbor put it out.  Bottom line, I had multiple problems including having to repair drywall, and repaint when we got home from vacation... all because they died in an inaccessible space, instead of in a trap.  Owning a dog and cats, and appreciating other wildlife, I would never use personally never use poison for that reason even if I had not learned a lesson twice the hard way.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't like poisoning rats, because it's a horrible way for them to die, but it's the most effective. 2 rats can become 50 rats in a matter of a few weeks and no matter how many traps you use you will never get all of them. If I get them early, a few deaths now stops hundreds of potential deaths later. You have to be responsible though and don't just put poisons out in any old place. The other option is just learning to live with hundreds of rats and don't intend to do that.

  • Upvote 4

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Darold I feel your pain!

I got some sprouted Hedy seeds a while back and the rats invaded, and ate them, plus some Dypsis robusta, plus some Prtichardtias! :badday::badday::rant:

I didn't have a continuing supply of Hedys so I was able to trap the rats using Laura Scudder unhomogenized peanut butter for bait in good old fashioned murderous rat traps.

(I forced myself to use tough-to-manage restraint; it would appear so unseemly to a third party observer to witness one dancing around the ant-covered carcass of a trapped rat. :o)

The rats were properly recycled by burial in the garden. Right next to the dead possums, skunks and pit bull.

  • Upvote 2

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry for the headache and heartache, Darold.

I like the Carolina Reapers idea! Darold, if you need a guy in a hot area to crank these out I would be happy to grow a bush or two for you In the desert that IS Oakley, CA. 

I've found the "rat size" Tomcat has a nice hole in the middle of it and I can use a nice #12 solid wire through the hole in the middle and tie it to the palm petiole. It smells of molasses (I guess) and I have actually heard them call their friends over at night to dine on the "appetizer". We have roof rats too.

 

Thanks for the cage advice.

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

these fellas seem to be getting my problme in hand as well as barred owls and hawks in the back yard 

 

MacrocIMG_6367.jpg

MacrocIMG_6409.jpg

MacrocIMG_6410.jpg

MacrocIMG_6415.jpg

MacrocIMG_6371.jpg

MacrocIMG_6372.jpg

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to all for the comments.  I don't approve of rodenticides for two reasons.  First, the rat can die in an enclosed and inaccessible place, causing terrible odor and flies.  Second, the risk of secondary poisoning of non-target animals is too great.  I realize each person must weight these risks for their individual circumstances.  With this in mind I would like to share some thoughts about rodenticides.

 The EPA requires that all above ground rodenticides be contained within a bait station, no random placement of uncovered bait. 

The two main types of rodenticide are the blood thinner, 2nd generation of Wafarin, called Bromadialone.  This takes 3 or 4 days to kill the rat by inducing a vitamin K deficiency. It has a high risk of secondary poisoning of non-target animals, as the rat staggers around in a compromised behavior before death.

The second rodenticide is Bromethalin. This kills the rat by cerebal edema.  The rat receives a lethal dose with one feeding, feels bad quickly, and retreats to its daytime lair, dying in 1 to 2 days.  To my thinking, this seems to have less risk of secondary poisoning of a hawk, owl, or domestic pet.   Be advised that there is NO ANTIDOTE to Bromethalin should your dog or cat ingest a poisoned carcass.

Spring traps avoid all these issues but can cause damage to the paws of non-target animals, like raccoons, skunks, or squirrels.  My dog once got her rear foot caught in a spring trap, luckily she was a large dog, and not injured.

To completely eliminate non-target damage I have used live catch box traps,  I have caught and released unharmed a squirrel,  a juvenile opossum, and a thrush.  What do I do with the live, caught rat ??  I submerge the entire box trap in my water feature.  Trust me, no rat can hold its breath for an hour !! :mrlooney:

If you feel that you must use rodenticides please consider Bromethalin, solely within a bait station, thanks.   :)

  • Upvote 5

San Francisco, California

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Thanks to all for the comments.  I don't approve of rodenticides for two reasons.  First, the rat can die in an enclosed and inaccessible place, causing terrible odor and flies.  Second, the risk of secondary poisoning of non-target animals is too great.  I realize each person must weight these risks for their individual circumstances.  With this in mind I would like to share some thoughts about rodenticides.

 The EPA requires that all above ground rodenticides be contained within a bait station, no random placement of uncovered bait. 

The two main types of rodenticide are the blood thinner, 2nd generation of Wafarin, called Bromadialone.  This takes 3 or 4 days to kill the rat by inducing a vitamin K deficiency. It has a high risk of secondary poisoning of non-target animals, as the rat staggers around in a compromised behavior before death.

The second rodenticide is Bromethalin. This kills the rat by cerebal edema.  The rat receives a lethal dose with one feeding, feels bad quickly, and retreats to its daytime lair, dying in 1 to 2 days.  To my thinking, this seems to have less risk of secondary poisoning of a hawk, owl, or domestic pet.   Be advised that there is NO ANTIDOTE to Bromethalin should your dog or cat ingest a poisoned carcass.

Spring traps avoid all these issues but can cause damage to the paws of non-target animals, like raccoons, skunks, or squirrels.  My dog once got her rear foot caught in a spring trap, luckily she was a large dog, and not injured.

To completely eliminate non-target damage I have used live catch box traps,  I have caught and released unharmed a squirrel,  a juvenile opossum, and a thrush.  What do I do with the live, caught rat ??  I submerge the entire box trap in my water feature.  Trust me, no rat can hold its breath for an hour !! :mrlooney:

If you feel that you must use rodenticides please consider Bromethalin, solely within a bait station, thanks.   :)

I must concur regarding poisons.

Someone on the old 'hood in San Berdoo poisoned some mockingbirds (I'm pretty sure by accident) with some gopher killer, death throes not a pretty sight. Cyanide causes convulsions in victims.

I hate the way mice and rats squeak in terror in those "live-catch" traps. Many people freak out completely.

Spring traps are fast and as humane as you're going to get. I've found that the best thing, if you can, is to use a spring trap in a box big enough to hold it and the target, or, put the trap in a place where non-target animals don't go.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tokay geckos love rat and mouse pinkies!

Corn snakes great for the yard!

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So sorry to hear about all the rat issues! 

I used to have them get my seeds and seedlings in pots on occasion but building a rat proof box with suggestions from PT fixed that!

However I have seen no evidence of rats recently as I see more red tailed non native boas, apparent escapees from the zoo more than 30 minutes drive away. 

Sadly the snakes are likely eating lots more than rats, but happily not palms.

 

  • Upvote 1

Cindy Adair

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info. Darold

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had success with the sticky glue traps. My rat problem stems from a chicken coup and spread outward.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Catchmaster-Heavy-Duty-Rat-Size-Glue-Traps-2-Pack-Case-of-12-404SD/202993650?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D28I-Cleaning%7c&gclid=CJCx3t6zs9MCFQuifgodtWcJXA&gclsrc=aw.ds

A dab of peanut butter (or Hedy seed) in the middle. You can nail them onto the trunk of the tree if you want to.  I wait to get at least 2 in each trap, they'll crawl over each other and get stuck. I have to throw the used traps into a 5 gallon bucket of water to finish them off as they are still very alive in the glue.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bummer Darold! Having lost a lot of decent sized palms in pots to Voles a couple years back, I feel your pain! (BTW, the B moorei somehow continues to grow.. :) ) (Knock on my wood head right now!!!)

  • Upvote 1

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, TomJ said:

I have had success with the sticky glue traps. My rat problem stems from a chicken coup and spread outward.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Catchmaster-Heavy-Duty-Rat-Size-Glue-Traps-2-Pack-Case-of-12-404SD/202993650?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D28I-Cleaning%7c&gclid=CJCx3t6zs9MCFQuifgodtWcJXA&gclsrc=aw.ds

A dab of peanut butter (or Hedy seed) in the middle. You can nail them onto the trunk of the tree if you want to.  I wait to get at least 2 in each trap, they'll crawl over each other and get stuck. I have to throw the used traps into a 5 gallon bucket of water to finish them off as they are still very alive in the glue.

EEK!

I'm not that sadistic. Yet.

The slide down the slippery slope has begun.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh my god Darold

They certainly made a meal out of all those !  Hedyscepe seeds are as rare as hens teeth too !

Your specimen looks magnificent !

 

Troy

Old Beach ,Hobart
Tasmania ,Australia. 42 " south
Cool Maritime climate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

per what Darold said about Rodencides ----- I had a bunch of price Chamaodoreas in my green house ---lost 5 or 6 large C. metallicas and they were working their way through the Cham food chain ---- I had some prize C. tuerkheimii s  ---- traps work once then the rats figure it out  glue traps catch lizards so I did the bait theing  got rid of all the rats then but the problem was I had an extensive permitted caimen collection     they all got knocked off over the next 6 months and a few large turtles --------- I had had some for almost 40 yers.    Next year i cooked up a solution of Datura brugmansia leaves flowers and roots and mixed in some castor beans and sprayed every thing this seemed to work ------  I Dont use any bait ever again  ----- 

I use the home made organic poisons some but the last 5 years or so I have been building up the bird and owl and hawk poopulation -------lots of big 5 lined skinks in the green house I am shure they knock off the pinkies --- I even saw the corn snake cruzing the empty croc paddock a few days ago. 

 

party on

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

At long last my few remaining seeds have ripened.  I believe that these seeds took longer than normal, (even for Hedyscepe) because the palm was attempting to grow so many seeds concurrently.

Don't make my mistake.  If you are so lucky to have Hedyscepe seeds, protect them with wire while they are still green!

IMG_4999.JPG

IMG_5002.JPG

IMG_5003.JPG

  • Upvote 10

San Francisco, California

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy to see that the wiring protected your seeds ! =D

I would recommend cats as well, in my garden they have been excellent rodenticides, all you need is not overfeeding them (not overfeeding ≠ have them starve), and they'll hunt down small intruders for you ! It is also said that having cat hunt stuff is essential to their mental well-being :)

Edited by Nakheel1412
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rat Jerky
Created by Yuri Hart and Robert Pugh

15 Rats
1.Take all rats and with a smoking gun, smoker or cold smoker, smoke the rats with hickory until they have a smokey flavor.
2. Season the rats with salt and pepper. Line the rats on a grate with a sheet tray underneath.
3. Set the oven to 280 degrees, place the rats in the oven and cook for three hours, or until rats are crispy on the outside.
4. Let the rats cool, and then pull the meat off of the bodies into bite size pieces.
5. Serve meat at room temperature.

  • Upvote 1

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Gonzer said:

Rat Jerky
Created by Yuri Hart and Robert Pugh

15 Rats
1.Take all rats and with a smoking gun, smoker or cold smoker, smoke the rats with hickory until they have a smokey flavor.
2. Season the rats with salt and pepper. Line the rats on a grate with a sheet tray underneath.
3. Set the oven to 280 degrees, place the rats in the oven and cook for three hours, or until rats are crispy on the outside.
4. Let the rats cool, and then pull the meat off of the bodies into bite size pieces.
5. Serve meat at room temperature.

Yeah, I think I'll stick with the turkey and gammon thankyou very much:blink:

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 7 greenhouse cats have now turned into 3 cats. The three that weren't carried away by hawks and owls are fat and we feed them very little kibble so they are doing their job well. We have 30-40k seeds out germinating and havent lost any in 12-18 months. Only issue is the cats like laying or stepping right on top of small seedlings, which I'll take over rodents decimating 1000 seedlings in a night. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beautiful red seed Darold.  I keep ample poison in my attic to keep the rodent population at bay.  No matter how good I try to seal every nook and cranny they somehow find a way in.  They die in the wall and stink.  I don't mind.  It goes away in a few weeks.  It's the smell of victory.

 

  • Upvote 2

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/31/2017, 3:49:45, Gonzer said:

Rat Jerky
Created by Yuri Hart and Robert Pugh

15 Rats
1.Take all rats and with a smoking gun, smoker or cold smoker, smoke the rats with hickory until they have a smokey flavor.
2. Season the rats with salt and pepper. Line the rats on a grate with a sheet tray underneath.
3. Set the oven to 280 degrees, place the rats in the oven and cook for three hours, or until rats are crispy on the outside.
4. Let the rats cool, and then pull the meat off of the bodies into bite size pieces.
5. Serve meat at room temperature.

:floor:

love it bro!!!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MattyB said:

Beautiful red seed Darold.  I keep ample poison in my attic to keep the rodent population at bay.  No matter how good I try to seal every nook and cranny they somehow find a way in.  They die in the wall and stink.  I don't mind.  It goes away in a few weeks.  It's the smell of victory.

 

I like the smell of victory :)

 

been killing rats like a mofo at the nursery lately

  • Upvote 1

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I used to have a cat problem.  I would trap and release elsewhere.  I don't do that anymore - I'd rather have a cat problem than a roof rat problem any day!

rod

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On April 15, 2017 at 1:42:10 PM, Darold Petty said:

  My only response was to encase the spadices with wire mesh to protect the remaining seeds.  Once the rats develop a taste for Hedyscepe endosperm they will ignore any bait or trap and the predation will increase from day to day.  I paid a lot of money for this special rat bait, with overnight shipping, but it was worthless.  I still have enough  seeds to send a small amount to my Palmtalkers, but I have lost the majority of the seeds.

Don't procrastinate as I did, and use wire to protect your seeds at the first sign of rat damage. 

IMG_4387.JPG

IMG_4388.JPG

IMG_4389.JPG

 

On December 30, 2017 at 6:44:30 PM, Darold Petty said:

Don't make my mistake.  If you are so lucky to have Hedyscepe seeds, protect them with wire while they are still green!

IMG_4999.JPG

 

Are you sure those are rats and not squirrels? Rats can squeeze thru chicken wire that size. I use smaller 1/4" mesh.

Do you see rodent droppings or red wine color stains on cement or nearby?

Also, there are natural organic spray deterrents (not poisons) that work really well like Animal B Gon that's avail in different formulas for different pests.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This mesh size was completely successful in stopping the predation.  I am certain the culprit was Rattus rattus. Droppings all around, activity only at night, not daytime. We used to have squirrels two blocks down the street in the park, but the coyotes took care of that ! 

This material is from my gopher wire supply, so perhaps the openings are smaller than they appear.  :) 

San Francisco, California

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All my seedlings are now kept in boxes with vermin proof wire mesh covering them. I'm fed up with losing them.

  • Upvote 1

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...