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Variability in offspring


bgl

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One fascinating topic is the ability of a particular palm with a unique characteristic to be able to produce offspring with the same, or similar, characteristic. Variegated palms for instance. I have no experience with variegated palms (but hopefully someone else does!?), but based on my very limited experience with a few other palms, there seems to be a LOT of variability in the second generation. Case in point; we have quite a few Areca vestiaria, mostly the maroon variety, but also a few of the standard orange variety. A couple of years ago I germinated my first maroon A. vestiaria seeds. From one, and the same, infructescence I ended up with 239 seedlings that I potted up into 1G pots. After several months when all the seedlings had a couple of leafs I couldn't help but noticing that some of them stayed green, while others always opened up with a nice, maroon, frond. So I separated the 239 palms into two groups: the ones that always opened up with a green frond (never a single maroon one), and there were 71 palms in this group. The palms in the other group (168 palms) ALWAYS opened up with a maroon frond, and it kept that color for a LONG time.

So, from the very same seedbatch I ended up with about 30% that never opens up with a maroon frond, and 70% that always open up maroon.

Even though my experience with these things is still very limited, I have a hunch that this is probably typical. In the case of hybrids, for instance, my guess is that there could be even more variability, and it'll be interesting to hear from others. There seems to be (what I think is) a general misconception that second generation will stay true to the parent, and I don't believe this is the case at all.

Here are two of the Areca vestiaria 1G palms - from the same seedbatch.

post-22-1178666153_thumb.jpg

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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I've moved up most of the maroon 1G palms into 5G pots. Here are some of them.

post-22-1178666196_thumb.jpg

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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I was just thinking about this palm characteristic this weekend...  I potted up about 100 Chambeyronia macrocarpa seeds...  All of these came from a parent tree that has the "new red leaf" trait...  Out of the hundred seeds, some of them will not show the "new red leaf" trait.  I don't understand why this is...  X chromosomes and Y chromosomes of parents from seventeen generations ago or something I guess?  Hopefully someone more knowledgable will step up to the plate!  Good topic Bo-G!

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Hi Bo

You will find if you were to put some of the red form A.vestiaria in the ground for seed production from the ones in the photo you will get a higher percentage being red (these could be 2nd or 3rd generation as the first generation only made about 30% red new leaves and stems), in Indonesia they are on there 4th generation and 95% come true to type e.g. “red leaf and red stem”

Hi William

Normally with Chamberonia most if not all come true to type, the green form is quite rare in habitat, there seems to be forms that do not have a very red leaf with only a little colour in the new leaf, but if the seed is from a cultivated source you can have a mixed results in the right conditions, I have germinated 1000s of Chamberonia’s and 99% hold true to its parent plant, but these seeds come from gardens with only the red leaf form and none of the green new leaf form near enough to cross pollinate them.

Clayton.

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Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia

Minimum 3.C -------- maximum 43.C Average Annual Rainfall 1700mm

IPS Membership since 1991

PLANT MORE PALMS TO SOOTH THE SOUL

www.utopiapalmsandcycads.com

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Clayton,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm definitely going to keep some of the maroon ones for seed production, if for no other reason for the fact that I'm curious! But the 30% was the green ones - NOT the red! I assume this was the first generation, and I was getting 70% maroon.

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Hi Bo

I think your mother plant could be a second or third generation plant as all the first generation plants should be around 20 years old now. And I do understand that your one put out 70% red that’s why I was thinking that its a 2nd or 3rd generation mother plant. Anyway it will not take long for you in your climate to get those seedlings growing nice and fast and seeding soon to see the difference.

  • Upvote 1

Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia

Minimum 3.C -------- maximum 43.C Average Annual Rainfall 1700mm

IPS Membership since 1991

PLANT MORE PALMS TO SOOTH THE SOUL

www.utopiapalmsandcycads.com

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