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DoomsDave

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Way too late for anything serious to be done about the Burmese python in the Everglades. Unfortunately for native wildlife they are there to stay. They are amazingly beautiful snakes and it's such a shame that they have ended up in the wrong place and hated by many.

 

Regards Neil

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Yes, it's a shame. Very cool animals. 

Feral cats do far more significant damage to wild life. 

 

A truly bad winter would knock back the populatiion significantly.  They are prone to respiratory issues after being exposed to cold. It's a long slow death.

Also, if they were pandas or koalas people would be thrilled. 

Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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I wonder how far north they can go? I think the iguanas that are commonplace both in SE & SW Florida are kind of cool, but I wouldn't want pythons slithering around.

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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Gators are the ultimate winners in the battle of the Monty Pythons. Pythons do not travel in packs like Gators. You may have an instance where an 18 foot Python snares a singular 7 foot Gator but it is a rarity. The more likely scenario would be a pack of Gators attacking and eating both that Python and the Gator. Of course, even in that filmed scenario, where the Python appears to be the victor, two hours later that Gator likely ate it's way out(interior attack) of said Python slaying the briefly victorious reptile.

What you look for is what is looking

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  • 2 weeks later...

Like people are saying, there are hundreds of thousands of them. All these efforts are going to do nothing. They already naturalized. *Gulp*

PalmTreeDude

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On 3/16/2017, 9:39:54, RedRabbit said:

I wonder how far north they can go? I think the iguanas that are commonplace both in SE & SW Florida are kind of cool, but I wouldn't want pythons slithering around.

I have seen diagrams, and I am not sure how accurate they are, but they showed the maximum range going to about Orlando. 

PalmTreeDude

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They say the Burmese Python could range further north into other Southern states based on the climate zones of where they are native in SE Asia.

There was a 6ft snake here at Leu Gardens about 10 years ago. Don't know if it was a python or boa. It was seen crawling across a lawn with mockingbirds going after it. Then it climbed a small tree and hid itself in the Spanish moss. A few days later it was spotted down at the lake on a wooden overlook deck. After that it was hiding underneath the boards but guests would see it poking its head up. After a few weeks it was never spotted again. 

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Here is a map of potential ranges for the Burmese Python;

 

Image result for burmese python potential range map

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Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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And here is where it has been found in Florida

 

Image result for burmese python potential range map

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Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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On 3/30/2017, 9:09:03, Eric in Orlando said:

Here is a map of potential ranges for the Burmese Python;

 

Image result for burmese python potential range map

Oh boy... 

PalmTreeDude

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On 3/30/2017, 9:09:03, Eric in Orlando said:

Here is a map of potential ranges for the Burmese Python;

 

Image result for burmese python potential range map

Geez, I sure hope they never have that range. :bemused:

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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No way on that range map. Made by someone with an agenda, or insanity. Or both. 

Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017‎ ‎6‎:‎09‎:‎03‎, Eric in Orlando said:

Here is a map of potential ranges for the Burmese Python;

Let's see what's included in that map - Mojave Desert, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Phoenix AZ, almost the entire state of Texas. In zoos perhaps?

These animals need a permanent source of water in their environment. There is no way this map is anything close to accurate.

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I wondered about the water availability in the desert regions. I think the map was based more on temperature s the snakes could survive. But the way both sides have played the news with everything its hard to believe anything that gets released.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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The map might not be accurate, but I wouldn't necessarily be reassured by claims that the snakes can't take the cold.

They could well prove to be more resilient than expected. They've got a continent to explore, and feast in.

Stay tuned.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Dave, Burmese pythons are susceptible to upper respiratory illness when subjected to cold temperatures.

For breeding purpose in captivity,  they let them get rather cool, but definitely not freezing, as a way to condition the snakes for breeding. 

 

Even under those controlled conditions,  they still can sick and can die. It's a long slow death without treatment .

I worked with reptiles for more than a decade, including big snakes. 

Unless they are indoors, most of that map is no way land. Maybe not because of absolute lows, but duration. Like a coconut.

Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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3 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

That's comforting.

Pray they don't prove adaptable. At least gators can take the cold.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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the map of the forecast range was a model by the US GS but it had some bad data ---and assumptions it based it upon a average January temperature not a a mininum which is the controlling factor ( just like Royals and coconuts) -------------its like a lot of models disconnect between the math and the biology ---- they woube hard pressed to make it too much further north given the problem with the surviving hard freezes ------- ( As Alan correctly pointed out)  also predators frequently start to learn that they are edible   so the kingsnake population will likely increase as they would have an easy food supply ---   30 years ago everyone was all worked up about marine toads and walking catfish taking over the state ?  where are they now ----- still around but stuck in south FL.  Now if we could just do something about the expansion of St Augustine grass and Homo sapiens --- I would see that as money better spent 

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One look at that map and I too thought it to be a bit exaggerated myself. 

On the other hand, it's not completely out of the question that spots along the far southern Texas coast, and perhaps isolated spots around the Gulf of California, esp the warmer southern reaches, and maybe near the U.S. / Mexico border near San Diego might offer up some favorable places where accidental escapees could attempt establishment, especially if these areas saw warmer and warmer winters over time. 

While seldom seen, or mentioned locally, i've seen occasional Brown Anoles around more developed parts of town where suitable habitat exist.  Having seen both adult and juvenile specimens, some individuals must be able to adjust to the heat and find adequate shelter during our brief cold spells. The Sonoran Desert itself is tropical in origin and species such as Jaguars, Ocelot, Coati, Iguanas, and Boa Constrictor roam.. or have roamed here in times past.

The first 3 species continue attempting to re-establish past ranges, or, continue northward movement out of N.W. Mexico and it's not hard to forsee wild specimens of the last two turning up north of the border over time given ideal conditions stimulating range expansion. 

While natural evolution allowing Burmese Pythons a greater chance of expanding their range  into cooler and/or drier habitats would take many lifetimes, if at all possible,  nature no doubt has a way of surprising or sometimes tweaking the odds. As much worry as these snakes might generate, we could be talking about Brown Snakes, or Mambas. Talk about feral cat control, lol. 

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Thanks for the info. I see the pythons are much more susceptible to cold than the hype and ad revenue generating pseudonews would make it seem. Its getting harder to believe anythiong from "news" reports anymore.

So the pythons seem to have similar cold tolerance to the iguanas? I remember the iguanas spreading north but then many died off after the 2009-10 and 2010-11 winters. 

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Yes, about equal. Iguanas probably do better with cold by a small margin, they being diurnal and grabbing the first sunbeam after cold nights.

Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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I was just wondering how they compared to iguanas... Iguanas are all over the place in South Florida,  but I've never seen one in Central Florida. They'd probably already be here if they could survive this far north. If iguanas and pythons have a similar cold tolerance they'll be restricted to South Florida too.

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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There's a population of Mexican spiny-tailed iguanas (Ctenosaura pectinata) in the Brownsville, Texas area. Also the only place in Texas where you can find amazon parrots and ocelots. Jaguars and jaguarundis were extirpated within the last 100 years.

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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3 hours ago, Xenon said:

There's a population of Mexican spiny-tailed iguanas (Ctenosaura pectinata) in the Brownsville, Texas area. Also the only place in Texas where you can find amazon parrots and ocelots. Jaguars and jaguarundis were extirpated within the last 100 years.

Funny you mention the Iguanas. There's a small population of hybrid spiny tails that has persisted on the grounds of the Desert Museum( esp. near the Big Horn exhibit) for a couple decades. Supposedly they haven't spread into surrounding areas of the Tucson mountains/ Saguaro National Monument.. most likely because of lack of water/ ideal habitat. Was reading that they have been sterilizing the population in hopes that it will exhaust itself. Not sure how one might sterilize a lizard, lol.

As far as Jaguarundi, there have been tantalizing, albeit highly suspicious and far between reports of possible specimens in some of extremely remote corners of the mountains near the border here in the state. True or not, it's cool enough that one might cross paths with 4 species of Cats while camping in the mountains just to our south.

Elegant Trogon, a tropical bird that supposedly only occurred in the far southeastern corner of the state, is apparently expanding north and showing up in ideal habitat near/ below Flagstaff. Groove billed Ani were also recently sighted at a local birding Hotspot here in Chandler as well.  This is another "tropical"  species that appears to be exploring new territory.

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According to Smithsonian, a Jaguar has found his way into Arizona, dubbed "El Jefe."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Jefe_%28jaguar%29

Apparently, he's the only one that's been verified. Somehow I think there's others. I don't think celibacy is a thing for cats . . .

Hola Senor Jefe . . . please don't eat me.

El-jefe-jaguar-fws1.jpg

 

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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4 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

OH NO!

Mayke

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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5 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

According to Smithsonian, a Jaguar has found his way into Arizona, dubbed "El Jefe."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Jefe_%28jaguar%29

Apparently, he's the only one that's been verified. Somehow I think there's others. I don't think celibacy is a thing for cats . . .

Hola Senor Jefe . . . please don't eat me.

El-jefe-jaguar-fws1.jpg

 

Actually, "the boss" is only one of several recent sightings. A different Jaguar was spotted sometime last fall via wildlife camera surveillance, further north than previously recorded. For anyone interested, the Northern Jaguar Progect/ Reserve page is a good read.. the reserve's location itself includes some prime Saban uresana habitat as well. Wouldn't be surprised to hear of new species being documented as the numerous surveys underway continue in that part of Sonora.

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Where in Mexico do Iguanas become naturalized? I seem to recall a great movie with Richard Burton "Night of the Iguanas"in tropical Mexico. I saw about a five (5) foot Iguana and somewhat thick saunter slowly across our street this morning until a car came by and he threw Igie into high gear. I think the large Iguanas are much more analogous to Burmese Pythons. The small lizards are outliers. The previously nearly extinct Florida Panther has joined/become friendly/kissy kissy/had babies with the larger Texas wildcats and they have now been sighted in north Florida. Where was "Night of the Iguanas" filmed with RB? That is where worries about Burmese Pythons should begin. True Coconut range kind of deal.

What you look for is what is looking

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I can't saybto the pythons but I would like some of those fancy orange headed purple bodied lizards I daw running around Homestead 

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On 4/7/2017, 9:51:57, bubba said:

That is where worries about Burmese Pythons should begin. True Coconut range kind of deal.

More or less southern Tamauliapas, probably with a creep north to the Texas border in between killing freezes. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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On 4/11/2017, 2:25:24, Alan_Tampa said:

Red headed agamas,  very cool lizard. 

Know of any interesting species in our area? I occasionally see monk parakeets but that's it. 

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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I'll have to think a bit, but I did see a red headed agama at the 7-11 on 41 and big Bend road a few months ago. 

Most of the cool stuff is a little further south. 

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Tampa, Florida

Zone - 10a

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12 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

I'll have to think a bit, but I did see a red headed agama at the 7-11 on 41 and big Bend road a few months ago. 

Most of the cool stuff is a little further south. 

Hmm. Wonder what he was buying? Maybe some smokes and a set of those earbuds for his iPhone? :)

Agama_agama_0007.thumb.jpg.59754e72bcc92

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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On 4/13/2017, 10:27:37, Alan_Tampa said:

I'll have to think a bit, but I did see a red headed agama at the 7-11 on 41 and big Bend road a few months ago. 

Most of the cool stuff is a little further south. 

Interesting you saw one there. It seems like tropical Florida starts around that Apollo Beach / Ruskin area. I know Ruskin has a lot of Ficus aurea and Bursera simaruba that you don't really see much of north of there. 

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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