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Pritchardia species id - from Kauai


Tracy

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I'm hoping to get closer to an id on another Pritchardia.  It is another small one, that the source said was a species from Kauai.  It is proving to be quite attractive even as a small plant.  I'm always impatient about confirming identity, so I'll post some pictures I hope will help even though I anticipate the "wait until it gets more mature" response.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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23 minutes ago, Tracy said:

I'm hoping to get closer to an id on another Pritchardia.  It is another small one, that the source said was a species from Kauai.  It is proving to be quite attractive even as a small plant.  I'm always impatient about confirming identity, so I'll post some pictures I hope will help even though I anticipate the "wait until it gets more mature" response.

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looks a bit like my pritchardia kaalae

  • Upvote 1

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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42 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

looks a bit like my pritchardia kaalae

I previously wasn't familiar with P kaalae, so your post prompted me to look it up.  I can see some of the traits.  When you get a chance, post a photo or two of your kaalae for comparison.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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6 hours ago, Tracy said:

I'm hoping to get closer to an id on another Pritchardia.  It is another small one, that the source said was a species from Kauai.  It is proving to be quite attractive even as a small plant.  I'm always impatient about confirming identity, so I'll post some pictures I hope will help even though I anticipate the "wait until it gets more mature" response.

20170225-104A5251.jpg

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Pritchardia napaliensis is native to northern Kauai.  It has thick, wooly, brown tomentum on the petiole bases, and fiberous layers similar to your second picture.

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I don't remember my P napaliensis having so much fuzz or scaling at that size, but I can't say for sure (that was a while ago, it's flowering now).  It could be P minor?

 

Matt

  • Upvote 1

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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On 2/25/2017, 12:27:07, Tracy said:

I previously wasn't familiar with P kaalae, so your post prompted me to look it up.  I can see some of the traits.  When you get a chance, post a photo or two of your kaalae for comparison.

sure, Its still in a 25 gal tub

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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3 hours ago, Josh-O said:

Its still in a 25 gal tub

All the more interesting!  The bigger the specimen the better!  Photos bitte! 

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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I got one similar to this from Jungle Music labeled sp. "silverback". Unfortunately I killed it doing a transplant to another location. But it showed much more tomentum at an earlier age than any other Pritchardia I have. I have a Ron Lawyer version P. minor, which might be the same plant although it was a 5 gal. size when I got it, so it's difficult to compare. Aside from that, P. hardyi has a similarly fuzzy stem, as well as one I got last year labeled P. flynnii. As if Hawaiian Pritchardias are not already difficult enough to ID, they are notoriously mislabeled in nurseries. I'm pretty sure my P. kaalae is transforming into a hillebrandii. Didn't know they did that.

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Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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On 2/26/2017, 8:30:28, quaman58 said:

Aside from that, P. hardyi has a similarly fuzzy stem, as well as one I got last year labeled P. flynnii. As if Hawaiian Pritchardias are not already difficult enough to ID, they are notoriously mislabeled in nurseries. I'm pretty sure my P. kaalae is transforming into a hillebrandii. Didn't know they did that.

So it is interesting to hear the different thoughts.  My little one was purchased as P flynnii.  Len (LJG) was there when I purchased it, and thought that if it was not P flynnii, it would still be an attractive palm.  That was all the encouragement I needed to purchase it.  So now I'll add that it would be great to see photos of your P flynnii.  I will say that I'm happy with the appearance thus far.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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  • 1 year later...
On 2/26/2017, 8:30:28, quaman58 said:

Aside from that, P. hardyi has a similarly fuzzy stem, as well as one I got last year labeled P. flynnii.

So Bret, can you share any new photos of your Pritchardia hardyi and the flynnii?  What differences are you seeing between the two?  My Pritchardia acquired as flynnii is looking a bit stretched these days, as it's in a heavily shaded position in my garden.  Still showing that very fuzzy brown tomentum on the petioles and lots of flecking on the underside of the leaves.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Tracy,

I’m not sure how helpful these are, but here you go. First up is hardyi, I’m pretty confident of its id. There’s a pinkish felt on the stem that seems pretty unique to this species. It’s been slow for me, but that’s almost certainly because it’s not crazy about where it’s planted. It’ll just have to suck it up; I’m not moving it.

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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Here’s a couple of flynii, assuming it’s the real deal. Smaller than yours, but also unique in appearance. I don’t think it’s minor, but I’ve been known to be wrong before..

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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Sorry, got interrupted..

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  • Upvote 2

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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11 hours ago, quaman58 said:

Sorry, got interrupted..

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Nice!  Thanks for sharing all the photos.  I'm guessing the flynii is progressing faster than the hardyii due to better placement?  My P flynii seems to be a consistent grower even during winter not shutting down completely.  Based on the size of yours, I would expect it to make some real progress over this summer.   Its ready to start consistently pushing more fully formed leaves as opposed to the more juvenile wedge shaped ones like the oldest ones it is holding.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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I planted the flynii in full sun in an enclosed area where I'd removed 2 large queens last year. So as those roots stopped sucking up all the available water, everything in there is looking much happier. The hardyi may also been starved for water, as there was a Queen (since removed) about 15 feet away. Queens in raised planter beds are a very bad idea!

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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I think it's too thick of fuzz and the leaves aren't flat enough for P. hardyii.  Looks exactly like a palm I got from Jungle Music labeled Pritchardia kaalae 'minima', whatever that is.  Mine is a little different now that it’s older but it looked exactly like yours when younger 

 

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Edited by MattyB
  • Upvote 2

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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10 hours ago, MattyB said:

I think it's too thick of fuzz and the leaves aren't flat enough for P. hardyii.

I wasn't sure which one you were referencing back to Matt... Bret's that he is growing and acquired as Pritchardia hardyii or mine acquired as Pritchardia flynnii.  Thanks for sharing the photos of your P kaalae "minima"... wouldn't mind seeing photos of what it looks like now.  Is it posted in your recent garden thread?

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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On 5/30/2018, 8:09:15, Tracy said:

I wasn't sure which one you were referencing back to Matt... Bret's that he is growing and acquired as Pritchardia hardyii or mine acquired as Pritchardia flynnii.  Thanks for sharing the photos of your P kaalae "minima"... wouldn't mind seeing photos of what it looks like now.  Is it posted in your recent garden thread?

Tracy, I was referring to your palm not being P. hardyi.  Those pics of the P. kaalae minima were just taken this week.  

  • Upvote 1

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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On 5/30/2018, 9:10:27, MattyB said:

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Definitely similar, but the amount of brown tomentum and on the rachis and the darkness of that brown on mine appears to be even more.  Perhaps its age as you note, or normal variation, but I guess I'll just have to keep watching it. 

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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I remember mine looking exactly like that when it was smaller because that’s why I got it. 

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Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Looks like my small P. Peerlmanii comes from the same valley as P. Flynnii . Suchin Marcus looked,at my palm which the seller said was P. Flynnii and she confirmed as P. Peerlmannii She is pretty good at id's. Fingers crossed either way a nice looking palm

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Thanks Adam, good info. I have a peerlmanii I've been growing for a few years that originated from Floribunda; I'll have to compare them when I get home.

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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The seeds of Flynni were collected by Ed Green. He gave me some as well as others! We are all selling as same. I have a good size Perlmanni in my garden. As small plants they all look similar! I don't believe id can be made from small plants. And unfortunately a number of the seeds look look very similar, I think that is why years ago they were all called minor. The one trait I have noticed about the Flynni is that they grow pretty fast. The pearlmanni seem to be much slower. But to my recollection seeds seem to be similar so who knows? My 2 cents!

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1 hour ago, neoflora said:

The seeds of Flynni were collected by Ed Green. He gave me some as well as others! We are all selling as same.

:greenthumb:  Affirmative on the source.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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That's interesting I also got my palm from Ed Green he brought it to me at the last PSSC banquet at the Sherman gardens when Jeff and Suchin were there giving a lecture. She looked it over and told Ed and I that it was Peerlmanii I wish I could remember what she said the difference was in small plants . But I totally agree it could be P flynnii so hard to tell with these small pritchardias happy to have what ever it is Cheers

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A friend of mine in San Diego has a Pritchardia in his frontyard. He got it as P. minor. From what I have read P. viscous has a thick honey like substance on flowers. Well I was building a fence for him a while ago. During the time it was flowering, and it had a thick sticky goo dripping off flowers! 

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  • 5 months later...
On 6/4/2018, 3:12:27, akamu said:

here are some pics of My P.peerlmanni /P.flynni for comparison

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Something to look forward to when/if mine gets older! Is that an Olulu in the first pic that I see???

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My guess for the palm that started this thread would be P. minor.  I base this guess on the reddish-brown fuzzie-wuzzies, and the small appendage at the base of the petiole, similar to the auricle (or ligule) on Chamaedorea costa-ricana.  I'll try to post  a photo of my P. minor tomorrow.

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San Francisco, California

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I'm starting to come around on mine as a true P. minor and it looks a bunch like yours, Tracy. The description in the Hodel book and some of the pics are spot on. One of the most striking parts of it is how deep green and matte the leaves are. 

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IDs for young Pritchardia are like a guessing game in most cases. Yet, I agree the first plant in this post may be P minor.  Main population of P napaliensis is nearly glabrous compared to the pubescent species. Also, btw, viscosa has flowers that appear oily, yet are dry to the touch. Have fun with your loulu everyone!

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Here are four images of my palm, purchased as P. minor.  I don't wish to show the whole palm, as it is in poor condition. 

Note the severe potassium (K) deficiency in the background frond.  :(

  Somewhere, deep in my dim memory I recall this reddish fuzz on the palms at Kokee State Park.  It was thickly present on the spadices as well.

 

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San Francisco, California

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  • 1 year later...
On 11/18/2018 at 4:02 PM, Darold Petty said:

Somewhere, deep in my dim memory I recall this reddish fuzz on the palms at Kokee State Park.

Plenty of red fuzz on mine.  I have stayed with the P flynnii label for now but realize that someday when it's older I may have to change it.  Mine does have a little lankier look to it than some of the other palms posted, but that is probably because it has been growing in shade.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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6 hours ago, Tracy said:

Plenty of red fuzz on mine.  I have stayed with the P flynnii label for now but realize that someday when it's older I may have to change it.  Mine does have a little lankier look to it than some of the other palms posted, but that is probably because it has been growing in shade.

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Nicely grown specimen! If that's what is considered "lanky", sign me up! Then again, I'm new to the scene so my apologies :unsure: What kind of fertilizer are you using, Tracy?

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/21/2020 at 1:11 PM, Big Eye said:

What kind of fertilizer are you using, Tracy?

I'm a little late responding to this, I guess I missed it at the time.  Palm Plus™ 13-5-8 with GAL-XeONE®

I came back to this string to post an updated photo of the last couple of leaves which have opened, in that they have an interesting hastula on the adaxial side (See three adaxial photos).  It is still quite fuzzy too as seen in the abaxial view and trunk photos.  I don't know if this formation on the hastula is a passing thing or something it will now continue producing.  I don't recall reading about an appendage like this in any of the Pritchardia descriptions.  Anyone else's P minor, hardyi, flynnii, kaale or any of the other suggested options showing an appendage like this at the hastula?

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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