Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Dwarf Encephalartos


bk10

Recommended Posts

Hello,

I'm in zone 7b/8a so I grow mainly in pots. As such, I'm interested in cycads that cone at a small size. The so called "dwarf cycads" that I know of are :

caffer, ngoyanus, cerius, cupidus, and dwarf horridus. Are there others? How would these be ranked based on size?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, bk10 said:

As such, I'm interested in cycads that cone at a small size.

 

10 hours ago, cycadjungle said:

I have seen cerinus plants 6 feet across.

Is your goal to get cycads to the coning stage, or just to have a more manageable sized potted plant?  As slow growing as many Encephalartos are, the ones you mentioned as well as most of the Eugene complex (mentioned in post above) will be fine in a pot for a very long time, practically indefinitely.  It also will depend on how old the plants are when you acquire them, seedlings or 15 gallon size.  The cerinus referenced above at 6' across was an old and mature plant, also likely growing in a climate that was ideal.  Cycadjungle (I apologize I don't know your name), can probably share an estimate of how old that 6' across plant was when he saw it.

If you want small and fast coning, my fastest coning cycads are all Zamias followed by Ceratozamias and some Cycas.  Many of the Zamia species will be manageable in pots, but you will need to do something with the plants in your climate during the cold periods.   Are you currently growing any Encephalartos or other cycads?

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies.

I do grow Zamia and Certatozamia currently. And coning isn't the main goal. I really want plants that will eventually look like an adult plant without the size (that is, something with a number of leaves with the adult characteristics). Something out of the seedling stage that flushes more than one leaf at at time (a teenaged plant perhaps?). This will take time of course, but I can't exactly move around a full size E. whitlockii every winter. I have a hobby g-house and a garage that keeps my plants above freezing in the winter.  

 

 

Edited by bk10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the Blue Encephs stay pretty small for many many years. a 3ft Horridus or lehmanii can hold dozens of leaves.

rare flowering trees, palms and other exotics

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Scott Cohen said:

a 3ft Horridus or lehmanii

A 3' E horridus or lehmannii would be a huge plant!  Normally cycads are measured by caudex size.  In my limited experience, I started getting 2-3 leaf flushes at about a 2" caudex with the Cape Blue Encephalartos:  lehmannii, horridus, trispinosis and princeps.  These species make nice looking container plants with multi leaf flushes at about a 4" caudex and can stay in a 15 gallon pot for years, which would meet BK's needs.   I kept a lot of cycads in pots for several years because I was eventually remodeling and moving to my Leucadia house.  This princeps had about a 4" caudex and you can see it was holding an attractive display even at this size.

20130625-IMG_5588 E princeps.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You'll be good with horridus, trispinosus, lehmanii, princeps, etc and theyll be cheaper and easier to find than nubimontanus, middleburges, eugene-maraisii, etc.  I have all of these readily available in 1g liners. If you're interested send me a PM.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

You'll be good with horridus, trispinosus, lehmanii, princeps, etc and theyll be cheaper and easier to find than nubimontanus, middleburges, eugene-maraisii, etc.  I have all of these readily available in 1g liners. If you're interested send me a PM.  

13 hours ago, bk10 said:

Thanks Tracy. That is exactly the look/size I'm looking for.

BK, be aware they are gateways to get you hooked.  Next thing you know you will be posting something asking about where you can get Encephalartos hirsutus, ghellinckii and heenanii.  Maybe you should rethink this before you dive into the rabbit hole....  No, go for it!  By the way, an added bonus of all these Cape Blue species you are considering is that they have lower cold tolerances than many of the "green" species.  You will have a little more comfort zone for an unexpected drop in temps when they are outside. 

Since you will be moving them seasonally a couple of recommendations.  First, mark your pots with southerly exposure so when you move them, you can keep their orientation the same (not my idea, it was passed on to me from George Sparkman at Cycads-n-Palms in Fallbrook, CA).  Second, to make moving them easier, you can use a planting media which is a little lighter.  When I transplanted mine into larger pots, I used a mix which leaned very heavily on two gradations of pumice (the larger was about 1/4" size, and the smaller was about a 3/16ths to 1/8").  I also added a little perlite and orchid bark in the mix, with the final ingredient a little commercial packaged palm and cycad mix.  It wasn't cheap, but it did allow me to easily move 15 gallon pots in my yard to maximize seasonal sunlight.  

G

ood luck and share photos once you get your plants situated! 

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple of those Eugene complex you can consider are Encephalartos dyerianus

20170225-104A5261.thumb.jpg.45d3e0af531a

Encephalartos cupidus

20170225-104A5262.thumb.jpg.7dce4301b0de

or another that may do well in a pot, Encephalartos inopinus

20170225-104A5258.thumb.jpg.5cbb077a4d4920170225-104A5259.thumb.jpg.6be0b4268b0c

  • Upvote 2

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again. You all have given me something to think about. Pumice isn't easy to find in NC. I've switched from course sand to porous Sunleaves rock (used in hydroponics) but still isn't pumice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bk10 said:

I've switched from course sand to porous Sunleaves rock (used in hydroponics) but still isn't pumice.

The key is good drainage; the lightness of the pumice and perlite in the mix is just a bonus when you have to move things frequently.  A good dolly/hand cart can alleviate the burden of a heavier mix though.

  • Upvote 1

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 2017. 3. 10. 오전, Kevin S said:

 작은 식물의 크기에 대해서는 자 미아 와 함께 잘못 갈 수 없습니다  . 나는 진짜 작은 작은 E.horridus를 보았다.

 nice small E.horridus  show me! please  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Just potted up these with my son. Not selling them, just showing them.

They are freshly watered in, otherwise they would show that 'waxen' blue...

20170625_114620.jpg

20170625_114610.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

Just potted up these with my son. Not selling them, just showing them.

They are freshly watered in, otherwise they would show that 'waxen' blue...

What species are they? 

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, 5150cycad said:

They look a little bit like Cerinus. 

Yeah, I thought 'waxen' clue gave it away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Cerinus.

 

17 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

I thought 'waxen' clue gave it away.

I'm a bit slow.  Mine is popping out a limited flush of only two new leaves after pushing 6 or 7 leaves in it's last flush.  Only the second flush since I took it out of a pot, so it still may be focusing on the root system.  The new flush (yellow colored emergent) will be noticeably longer than the previous flushes though when fully grown.

20170622-104A6738.jpg

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a dwarf Horridus that I don't think was advertised as such. I have had it probably 8-10 years and the longest leaf has not been over 10".

Yeah, someday I'll get around to a pic.. B)

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

 

I'm a bit slow.  Mine is popping out a limited flush of only two new leaves after pushing 6 or 7 leaves in it's last flush.  Only the second flush since I took it out of a pot, so it still may be focusing on the root system.  The new flush (yellow colored emergent) will be noticeably longer than the previous flushes though when fully grown.

20170622-104A6738.jpg

That is a very healthy looking Cerinus. I will post pictures of mine later tonight. It has an approximately 10" caudex that is mosty below the soil line due to being a subterranean species.  No matter how you plant them they always seem to pull themselves back under the soil similar to the encephalartos caffer. 

BTW, you seem to have pretty good knowledge of your cycads. I usually don't like trying to ID cycads because I am usually wrong and get shut down, however you will never know unless you try. :) 

image.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...

Old thread, but hell I’ll have at it. Anyone understand what the general cold hardiness of caffer and cerinus is? Just put them both in the ground.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Old thread, but hell I’ll have at it. Anyone understand what the general cold hardiness of caffer and cerinus is? Just put them both in the ground.

My old friend George listed E caffer at safe to 26 F and E cerinus at 25 F.  Neither of mine have seen anything close to that so I can't personally vouch for them.  Unfortunately we can't call him anymore... a loss to the cycad world.  Palmzilla  Braden.... what say you about these species and cold tolerance?

  • Like 1

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GeneAZ said:

you better keep them dry when that cold.

Si, Oui, Jawohl and Yes to that advice.  Damp and at the cold threshold isn't a good combination.  By the way, Experimental Grower, it was fun looking back at some of the old photos in this thread. that your question reopened.  I know my in ground specimens have grown a lot since posting back in 2017 and I'm sure that others plants have grown over this time period.  2017 doesn't seem that long ago, but time doesn't stop for any of us.

  • Like 1

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Si, Oui, Jawohl and Yes to that advice.  Damp and at the cold threshold isn't a good combination.  By the way, Experimental Grower, it was fun looking back at some of the old photos in this thread. that your question reopened.  I know my in ground specimens have grown a lot since posting back in 2017 and I'm sure that others plants have grown over this time period.  2017 doesn't seem that long ago, but time doesn't stop for any of us.

Right on, keeping them dry when cold isn’t so much of a sure bet here in the Bay Area. Although we don’t really have freezing rain or damp wet frosts, it generally tends to be clear and cold if it does frost.

In the ground they’re in a high grit mix on a slight slope so hopefully that will be sufficient. Also between palms they’ll be protected and once everything matures the palms will likely suck up much of the surrounding moisture. Fingers crossed! I would t have the handle “experimental grower” if half my efforts weren’t as risky, haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, GeneAZ said:

I'd say 4 degrees of frost, so 28F minimum, and you better keep them dry when that cold.

When you say dry when cold… do you mean keep the soil dry? or foliage dry, as in don’t expose them to wet frost/icy conditions? I ask because in NorCal the soil is always wet in the winter. They were planted in a high grit mix on an elevated bed so hopefully that helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

When you say dry when cold… do you mean keep the soil dry? or foliage dry, as in don’t expose them to wet frost/icy conditions? I ask because in NorCal the soil is always wet in the winter. They were planted in a high grit mix on an elevated bed so hopefully that helps.

Generally it means to keep the caudex dry as well as the soil when cold.  Sounds like you have done as much as possible to accommodate the conditions by planting on a slope and hopefully that high grit mix translates into well drained soil.  Good luck with your plantings.  If the soil doesn't dry out much in the winter, just avoid watering during that time of year when its always wet.

  • Like 1

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Generally it means to keep the caudex dry as well as the soil when cold.  Sounds like you have done as much as possible to accommodate the conditions by planting on a slope and hopefully that high grit mix translates into well drained soil.  Good luck with your plantings.  If the soil doesn't dry out much in the winter, just avoid watering during that time of year when its always wet.

Ok good to know. Ultimately if this fails, I will try again, but they’ll probably be planted on a mound of a pumice/lava pebble mix, some Organics and very little native clay.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...