Ceroxylon amazonicum

[Jdiaz31089]

There is very little information on this species on the internet. Does anyone have experience growing them in hot, inland areas of California? Seems like it would be a heat-tolerant species (for a ceroxylon). 

[Ben in Norcal]

7 minutes ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

There is very little information on this species on the internet. Does anyone have experience growing them in hot, inland areas of California? Seems like it would be a heat-tolerant species (for a ceroxylon). 

Interestingly, I have had the exact opposite experience.  These collapse for me in the heat of the summer, even in total shade - while EVERY other Ceroxylon species - parvifrons, echinulatum, ventricosum, etc. - keep on trucking.  It has been far too systematic an occurrence to be coincidence.  I am likely done with these.

[tim_brissy_13]

54 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Interestingly, I have had the exact opposite experience.  These collapse for me in the heat of the summer, even in total shade - while EVERY other Ceroxylon species - parvifrons, echinulatum, ventricosum, etc. - keep on trucking.  It has been far too systematic an occurrence to be coincidence.  I am likely done with these.

I had the same experience Ben. In comparison I'm particularly impressed with C parvum which is enjoying full sun this summer.

[Ben in Norcal]

3 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I had the same experience Ben. In comparison I'm particularly impressed with C parvum which is enjoying full sun this summer.

Interesting, Tim!  I've probably lost 7-8 of these total, consistently in the height of summer.

[Jdiaz31089]

1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Interestingly, I have had the exact opposite experience.  These collapse for me in the heat of the summer, even in total shade - while EVERY other Ceroxylon species - parvifrons, echinulatum, ventricosum, etc. - keep on trucking.  It has been far too systematic an occurrence to be coincidence.  I am likely done with these.

 

23 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I had the same experience Ben. In comparison I'm particularly impressed with C parvum which is enjoying full sun this summer.

ah shoot, i just bought a seedling hoping it would do better in hot climates lol. 

[Ben in Norcal]

22 minutes ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

ah shoot, i just bought a seedling hoping it would do better in hot climates lol. 

Well, you gotta try!  You probably get even hotter than me though.  Let us know how you get on!

[Al in Kona]

I had read that this species in habitat grew at a somewhat lower elevation than the other different species of Ceroxylon and therefore would be more likely to grow where it was warmer.  I tried 2-times but both times it eventually died.  Don't think I'll bother to try again.

[Jdiaz31089]

I guess I'll just have to give mine a go and just hope for the best!

17 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Well, you gotta try!  You probably get even hotter than me though.  Let us know how you get on!

 

9 hours ago, Al in Kona said:

I had read that this species in habitat grew at a somewhat lower elevation than the other different species of Ceroxylon and therefore would be more likely to grow where it was warmer.  I tried 2-times but both times it eventually died.  Don't think I'll bother to try again.

 

[topwater]

Ceroxylon and Jubea are two of my top 5 favorites, geez I wish they grew here.  You guys are so lucky to even have a shot at it!

[Jdiaz31089]

20 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I had the same experience Ben. In comparison I'm particularly impressed with C parvum which is enjoying full sun this summer.

Tim, I have parvum seed, so this is encouraging to hear!

[Jdiaz31089]

1 hour ago, topwater said:

Ceroxylon and Jubea are two of my top 5 favorites, geez I wish they grew here.  You guys are so lucky to even have a shot at it!

Jubaea are bullet-proof here, but as you can tell, ceroxylon are so tricky! That is unless you live within a stone-throw of the Pacific Ocean between San Francisco and... San Francisco.  Well, I would say they would do well along the coast from about San Luis Obispo to maybe Marin County?

Edited February 21, 2017 by Jdiaz31089

[SirOxylon]

I have 2 C. amazonicum in the ground growing in filtered light without any issues and there is one in a similar situation at Melbourne Uni. I think you may have got unlucky. We often blame temperature as the killer of palms but I wonder whether it is something less obvious- humidity, a pathogen (fungus)? I water mine heaps in summer. C. parvum is a nice thing to have growing. Its one that I don't have. Probably the hardest to get. Well done Tim.

[tim_brissy_13]

On Wed Feb 22 2017 09:04:58 GMT+1100, Jdiaz31089 said:

Tim, I have parvum seed, so this is encouraging to hear!

Here's my parvum. This is 8-9 years from seed. Very slow in a pot but has doubled in size since being in the ground in the last 18 months and you might be able to tell the fronds are now going plumose.

[peachy]

I have spent nearly 20 years just trying to find a ceroxylon of any kind.....without success

[SirOxylon]

Wow the parvum is slow but looks good. I doubt Ceroxylon are very popular in QLD Peachy. In fact I wonder if there are any Ceroxylon growing well up there. My advice for getting a Ceroxylon which is how us southerners get them is to order seeds and germinate them. They are quite easy to germinate. I use moist sphagnum in a plastic strawberry container without any heat-just placed in an ambient warm and humid area. If you have the right conditions they grow reasonably quick after that, if you dont they will tend to dampen off readily. 

[Jdiaz31089]

On 2/21/2017, 2:01:54, Al in Kona said:

I had read that this species in habitat grew at a somewhat lower elevation than the other different species of Ceroxylon and therefore would be more likely to grow where it was warmer.  I tried 2-times but both times it eventually died.  Don't think I'll bother to try again.

 

On 2/23/2017, 3:07:16, tim_brissy_13 said:

Here's my parvum. This is 8-9 years from seed. Very slow in a pot but has doubled in size since being in the ground in the last 18 months and you might be able to tell the fronds are now going plumose.

That's a beautifull palm! Well grown!

 

Well, I put mine in the ground today in the most sheltered, shaded spot I have - on the north side of my house where I grow brugmansia. I guess I might as well document my experience with amazonicum in inland, central CA. I'll be watering heaps during the summer. Here it is before going in the ground.

 

And here it is planted in the ground. The soil is very sandy here and drains very fast so I will be adding a good layer of decomposing leaf mulch to aid in keeping the root zone moist. 

 

 

 

 

[Jdiaz31089]

On 2/20/2017, 6:19:37, Ben in Norcal said:

Well, you gotta try!  You probably get even hotter than me though.  Let us know how you get on!

Mine will be tested with high temps soon! We start hitting 80s and 90s by May. 

[Ben in Norcal]

2 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

Mine will be tested with high temps soon! We start hitting 80s and 90s by May. 

Rock on with that - I am sick of this cold and wet

[Josh-O]

I have one growing flawlessly for the past 5 yrs from a tiny liner. Its now almost 31/2' tall and starting to fatten up at the base.

seems to love it's spot.

I'm 305 ft up on top of a hill 4 miles from the coast with no obstructions south facing if this info helps?

[Ben in Norcal]

20 hours ago, Josh-O said:

I have one growing flawlessly for the past 5 yrs from a tiny liner. Its now almost 31/2' tall and starting to fatten up at the base.

seems to love it's spot.

I'm 305 ft up on top of a hill 4 miles from the coast with no obstructions south facing if this info helps?

Yes - you don't get hot, that's why it's doing well.  These collapse every year when we get our inevitable week+ of 100-105 or worse degree heat.  Every single other ceroxylon doesn't seem to mind, as long as in full shade.  Absolute worst of the genus in heat, in my experience.

[topwater]

Geez, I thought Clayton was up near San Francisco, hard to believe it gets hotter than San Diego.  Even Houston rarely hits 100f, although it can peg 90 plus humidity all summer, which makes it seem hotter.

 

 

[Steve Mac]

That is going to be one cramped palm in that there corner, the trunk will touch both walls.

[Jim in Los Altos]

3 hours ago, topwater said:

Geez, I thought Clayton was up near San Francisco, hard to believe it gets hotter than San Diego.  Even Houston rarely hits 100f, although it can peg 90 plus humidity all summer, which makes it seem hotter.

 

 

Just look at summer temperatures way up in Sacramento. 100 degree days can be twenty or thirty days in a row. Lots of northern CA gets hotter than San Diego. Heck, inland Oregon and Washington get a lot hotter than San Diego. Clayton is east and North of SF and gets really hot whenever there are offshore winds. 

I'm just 40 or so miles south of San Francisco and just about seven miles southeast of the Bay and get a lot more heat than SF. I have a few Ceroxylon in my garden, the oldest being about twelve years old and they are trouble free here.

[Ben in Norcal]

9 hours ago, topwater said:

Geez, I thought Clayton was up near San Francisco, hard to believe it gets hotter than San Diego.  Even Houston rarely hits 100f, although it can peg 90 plus humidity all summer, which makes it seem hotter.

Oh gosh, I live on the surface of the sun for 6 months or more of the year.  Can be brutal, and low humidity to boot.

[Josh-O]

12 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Yes - you don't get hot, that's why it's doing well.  These collapse every year when we get our inevitable week+ of 100-105 or worse degree heat.  Every single other ceroxylon doesn't seem to mind, as long as in full shade.  Absolute worst of the genus in heat, in my experience.

a brutal summer day for us last year was 102F.

that's the hottest day since owning my house for 11 yrs. a few days in 90F but mostly high in the 88-89F range.

 

[Jdiaz31089]

 

11 hours ago, topwater said:

Geez, I thought Clayton was up near San Francisco, hard to believe it gets hotter than San Diego.  Even Houston rarely hits 100f, although it can peg 90 plus humidity all summer, which makes it seem hotter.

 

 

Hah! Crazy how insulated San Francisco and the areas immediately around the bay are from summer heat. I drive back and forth from the Valley to the Bay Area and am always amazed at the temperature differences. On any given day in mid-summer, you can have 65 degrees for a high in Berkeley, then drive 15 minutes east to the Walnut Creek and have mid-60s for an overnight low. 

11 hours ago, gtsteve said:

That is going to be one cramped palm in that there corner, the trunk will touch both walls.

Yeah, it might, if it survives to maturity. Given the feedback on this species, I might not have much to worry about . Besides, it's just a fence and can be moved if needed. 

@Jim in Los Altos I'd love to see your garden one day. I've seen pictures of some of your stuff here on PM, killer palms man!

 

36 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

a brutal summer day for us last year was 102F.

that's the hottest day since owning my house for 11 yrs. a few days in 90F but mostly high in the 88-89F range.

 

Josh, I'm so jealous of your coastal weather lol. Our weeks-long 110F+ streaks make 102F sound like lovely weather.  

[DoomsDave]

For what it's worth, I've gotten all the Ceroxies to grow at my place, in pots. In the ground, they croak. I suspect an issue with the soil. I know there are (or at least used to be) some fine specimens at the Huntington, still not trunking after all these (40+?) years . . .

[Jdiaz31089]

5 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

For what it's worth, I've gotten all the Ceroxies to grow at my place, in pots. In the ground, they croak. I suspect an issue with the soil. I know there are (or at least used to be) some fine specimens at the Huntington, still not trunking after all these (40+?) years . . .

Hm, that's interesting. What kind of soil do you have? In Southern CA, I suspect clay or decomposed granite?

[DoomsDave]

I have clay, and I htink they don't like that.

[Ben in Norcal]

8 hours ago, Josh-O said:

a brutal summer day for us last year was 102F.

that's the hottest day since owning my house for 11 yrs. a few days in 90F but mostly high in the 88-89F range.

Yeah, see that's the difference.  We surely have dozens of days at 100+ each year, and they can start as early as May and run through October.

[Jdiaz31089]

2 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Yeah, see that's the difference.  We surely have dozens of days at 100+ each year, and they can start as early as May and run through October.

 

On 2/20/2017, 5:32:41, tim_brissy_13 said:

I had the same experience Ben. In comparison I'm particularly impressed with C parvum which is enjoying full sun this summer.

Ben and Tim, what are your soils like? Do they drain well? Mine is sandy loam.

[tim_brissy_13]

42 minutes ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

 

Ben and Tim, what are your soils like? Do they drain well? Mine is sandy loam.

Mine were all in pots when the heatwave knocked them out. Think I planted them in a mix of coco coir peat and vermiculite. It was record heat of 45C (113 F) degrees that did it.

[Ben in Norcal]

50 minutes ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

 

Ben and Tim, what are your soils like? Do they drain well? Mine is sandy loam.

Same here, pots, cactus mix.  I think they basically give up in the low 100s, or several concurrent days of it.

[Josh-O]

ok lets see some pictures

[Josh-O]

ok lets see some pictures

[Jdiaz31089]

On 3/3/2017, 8:26:38, Josh-O said:

ok lets see some pictures

Alright, so far we've been having temperatures ranging from the low-60s to low-70s and the amazonicum has been growing, at least since being planted. This is probably an ideal temperature range for them, especially with all the added rain, like what we got today. I noticed a new spear coming up today. We're about to start getting a steady lineup of temperatures in the mid-70s and quickly climbing up to a steady lineup of 80s and 90s. I'll be adding another couple of inches of leaf mulch before then and then we'll see how well (or how badly) this palm does in a warm climate with sandy soil. 

 

The silvery color on the undersides is much more noticeable in person - almost ghostly white.

[richnorm]

Maybe in addition to the mulch surround it with some potted plants to keep the humidity up?  

[Tracy]

16 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

The silvery color on the undersides is much more noticeable in person - almost ghostly white.

9 hours ago, richnorm said:

Maybe in addition to the mulch surround it with some potted plants to keep the humidity up?

 

 

Looking good, and I like the suggestion of potted plants around it to help keep up the humidity. 

[Jdiaz31089]

The spear on this continues to grow, but with our summer temperatures steadily climbing, this guy's test is about to begin. We'll see how well it handles 100 degree heat and consistently warm nights. I keep the soil around it moist, and have recently shaded it with a bunch of plant clippings because the existing fronds burned even with the tiny bit of sun exposure at the end of the day. Now it's mostly in shade and gets filtered light for a few hours in the evening. 

 

[notice the hoard of washingtonia sprouting up!]

 

[Jdiaz31089]