Don't people like this make you furious!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Here's a letter that appeared in Saturday, May 5 San Jose Mercury News Letters To The Editor titled: Palm trees don't belong in San Jose.

Yes, go ahead and move those palm trees! What's good for the San Jose Grand Prix is good for business.

In fact, while you are at it, take the palm trees out permanently. Palm trees in San Jose look stupid. No way do I see "classy" in palm trees. California native tree species include four kinds of oak trees and the majestic coast sequoia. Too tall or wide? Then trim them for the desired shape and height.

Send those palm trees back to the tropics where they belong!

Mike Musumeci

       San Jose, CA

My response to this ignorant letter about W. filifera being moved to a new location to make room for the Grand Prix came as soon as I read that letter. Here's what I said:

In reference to Mike Mucumeci's letter in the May 5 issue regarding palm trees in San Jose, please let me express my extreme difference in opinion.

His desire to "send those non native palm trees back to the tropics" and "plant natives such as the coast sequoia and oaks" shows his ignorance about these trees. Those palms moved to make room for the Grand Prix ARE native California fan palms (Washingtonia filifera) and would actally perrish in the humid heat of the tropics.

He mistakenly points out the merits of coast sequoias for San Jose. Those poor trees, not native to the inland valleys, often languish here due to their need of copious amounts of water and cool moist coastal air.

Like most residents of the South Bay, I love palm trees and their centuries long heritage to the area. San Jose is beautiful and its palm trees are one reason why.

Jim Denz

     Los Altos, CA

__

How about this ignorant boob! Does he know what big oaks and humungous redwoods would do to the center medians, sidewalks, and streets of San Jose and how about the maintenance issues. Thank goodness his is a minority opinion. Downtown San Jose has millions of dollars worth of mature palms that it has continually added to over the years and I can't imagine the city any other way! I hope they print my letter.

[bgl]

Jim,

I sure hope they print your letter! Amazing how eager some people are to expose their ignorance!

Keep us posted!

Bo-Göran

[Don Little]

Jim,

It never ceases to amaze me of the ignorance and narrow mindedness of some.  Not only do I hope they post the letter but it would be nice if they sent him his own personal copy.  Let us know if they post your response.

Don

[aussiearoids]

(bgl @ May 06 2007,03:22)

QUOTE

Jim,

I sure hope they print your letter! Amazing how eager some people are to expose their ignorance!

Keep us posted!

Bo-Göran

Bo , it has been said before , but I must say it again .

Your command of english is superb , so well said .

short and sharp and I will not say sweet  

I reckon that bloke is a right drongo .

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Bravo, Jim! Great reply...sure hope they print your letter.

[Howeadypsis]

its just ignorance, they obviously know nothing about plams, or plants in general!

[PalmGuyWC]

Jim,

I couldn't agree with you more.  Musumeci sounds like a small business man who is more interested in a quick buck than anything. Isn't the Grand Prix a once a year event?  The  beautiful palms in San Jose are there year round. Send this jerk back East where he probably came from, and then he can enjoy snow up to his knees every winter.

I have nothing against Redwoods, but they should be in their proper place, not in the hot inland valleys.  They are way overdone in my area and they are messy and constantly dropping debris, and how do you "trim" a 100 ft tree? There are several Redwoods encroaching on my property, and  I wonder if a few copper nails would put them out of their misery?

Dick

[Tad]

I agree with you fellows.

I also want to remind y'all that not everybody holds the palm tree as near and dear as those of us on this board.

Most regular citizens don't  see the difference between one palm and another, so we can't go out and lynch them for being ignorant.

Try and educate them without calling attention to how backwards and dumb they really are.

It is an age old case of I like your message but the delivery was off.

[madagascarbob]

They write palm trees are not classy has she been to Beverly Hills or any 5 star resort.

[Darold Petty]

Anti-palm bias is fairly common in the San Francisco bay area and San Jose.  Several years ago the city of SF decided to renovate the area around the Ferry Building at the foot of Market Street.  This is one of the most dramatic, beautiful, and historic  areas in the entire city.  I was asked to testify at a city hearing in favor of the proposed design, featuring about 250 mature Phoenix carnariensis.   The anti-palm sentiment was of two positions.

 "Palms don't belong in SF, aren't part of our historic landscaping, and we don't want to look like Los Angeles."   Like the San Jose comment, this reveals the ignorance of the speaker.  Many historic photographs of the opulent 19th mansions on Nob Hill or Pacific Heights show palms in the landscape.  Indeed, when Huntington first established his botanic garden in San Marino one of the first palms planted was a CIDP.  This palm was dug up from his uncle's estate in SF and transported to southern California by railroad car.

 The second objection is "we should only plant native species".  These persons are so clueless that one actually suggested using madrone (Arbutus menziesii) as a substitute for the CIDP.  This is a beatiful tree, but is difficult to grow well, and is wholly unsuitable for a harsh, public enviroment.  It would also require decades of growth to achieve the desired size.  Some, (not all) of the native species proponents want to cut down all non-native trees in our city parks!

[amazondk]

When I lived in the Bay Area in the late 70's there was a song I liked a lot which had the words, Northern California where the pine tree meets the palm.  I can't remember who sung it, but I thought it was representative.

dk

[Gileno Machado]

(Darold Petty @ May 06 2007,11:48)

QUOTE

...Several years ago the city of SF decided to renovate the area around the Ferry Building at the foot of Market Street.  This is one of the most dramatic, beautiful, and historic  areas in the entire city.  I was asked to testify at a city hearing in favor of the proposed design, featuring about 250 mature Phoenix carnariensis...

Well done Amigo. You were sure proud to show me the CIDPs last year, I can't imagine the place without those beauties...

[rubyz]

Hmmm. Mike Musuceci. If I'm not mistaken, that doesn't sound like a Native American name to me. Perhaps they should ship this fellow back where his ancestors came from. ::

[SunnyFl]

(PalmGuyWC @ May 06 2007,08:55)

QUOTE

sounds like a small business man who is more interested in a quick buck

....or a small-minded businessman...

Seems like another case of people who oppose beauty, with no regard for fact or reason.  Like those who are replacing (native) royals with Live Oaks as street trees in Miami.

Jim, I hope they print your letter - it's very well-written.

[DoomsDave]

This is the Ferry Building near the Embarcadero.

Okay, CIDPs aren't native.  But they've got all the native virtues, including drought tolerance.  

I can't begin to imagine Sam Frank's disco without the palms.

[Dave-Vero]

I don't think it got very far, but there was a legitimate effort to de-tree parts of the Presido and other public areas to return them to something resembling San Francisco's pre-development historic vegetation, complete plants like [l=Raven's manzanita]http://www.nps.gov/archive/prsf/nathist1/nathist/ravmanz.htm[/l].

[happ]

(Darold Petty @ May 06 2007,10:48)

QUOTE

 The second objection is "we should only plant native species".  These persons are so clueless that one actually suggested using madrone (Arbutus menziesii) as a substitute for the CIDP.  This is a beatiful tree, but is difficult to grow well, and is wholly unsuitable for a harsh, public enviroment.  It would also require decades of growth to achieve the desired size.  Some, (not all) of the native species proponents want to cut down all non-native trees in our city parks!

Some giant Arbutus are growing in Chico/upper Sacramento valley  

LA city government no longer plants palms for street trees since they do not provide enough shade    LAX is filled with palms of all kinds; can't image Chinese elm replacing gigas  :laugh:

[Scott]

Maybe one of the "Non-native" palm trees will fall on his car

While he's not in it, of course ::

[Tyrone]

Oh well.

It's like I always say, If you don't like palms you are missing a very vital chromosone.

And idiots breed.

[wendisplantation]

I am a letter writer as well when I read something like that....YOU GO JIM!!!!!!!

I may be a Floridian now, but I have spent much of my life in California, from Redding to San Diego.....No palms in certain California areas???? Sounds totally CRAZY to me! That is partly where I gained my love for these beautiful trees-I agree , this person should go back to where ever he came from! :cool:

[M@ximus]

(palmotrafficante @ May 06 2007,15:18)

QUOTE

I agree with you fellows.

I also want to remind y'all that not everybody holds the palm tree as near and dear as those of us on this board.

Most regular citizens don't  see the difference between one palm and another, so we can't go out and lynch them for being ignorant.

Try and educate them without calling attention to how backwards and dumb they really are.

It is an age old case of I like your message but the delivery was off.

I'm  totally  agree  with you  Tad!

Many  on  this  pages ,  don't  remember ,  or  seem  don't  do  that,    All  todays  Americans   come  from  all   over  the  world, native  except.  And  when  you  insult   someone (""go back  where  you  come  from or  similar""),  insult  yourself.

And   you  Reuven!!,  I 'm  feeling  full of   sadness

We always  talking  about  how  to  make  better  this  world  and  we don't  lose occasion  for  have  fight  !

And  for  what?  for  a different opinion?

In  any  case  I LOVE  PALMS  

Ciao  M@x

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

how did i miss this thread_may be in initial stages i did not see any visuals.may be thats the reason.

wheather you folks have read all my threads..i repeatedely

kept telling i loved to study and settle down in the U.S when i was in my college day.since i loved the CIDP of california & floridia.

and even when i watched hollyhood movies i would wait to see if i could have glimpses of the can can(CIDP's) here and there in your highways !

and always used to tell my indian friends that i have great

admiration for those U.S Landscapes and town planners &

the highways Dept to have great fascination to CIDP & Washy's for the side walks,parks,highways,street liners etc..if those folks who have sanctioned & meticuliously have planned these beauties for landscapes were alive then i can really imagine what pains they will be going through emotionally_Jesus christ !

Since when i see the little sprouts of my palm saplings destroyed by squerials,i feel like destroying that entire

clang from my garden at least.

now emagine what kind of pain it would be to see the removal of these buties from what califorinia is associated with...

At times human race never fail to disappoint me,i usually critise god for his worst creation_yes its the human race,

its the most unpredicatable creature of all the animal kingdom.in my experience this creature is capable of destroying anything from the phase of the earth for its joys & pleasure!

And Dear Bo Goran_as all have said you put words so well in writing ! in the above statement i did the same but see the size of the text ?

And iam very angry with Californian citizens_hey is Arnold

eating and sleeping ? since hollyhood appears beautiful only due these palms !

Kris.

[TikiRick]

This reminds me of one of the most incredible examples of sheer lack of intelligence and greed. Here in Ft. Lauderdale, the Director of Tourism attracted and agreed to host an "airplane parade" for some special group consisting of pilots, airplane enthusiasts, airline personnel and the like. They were driving their planes from the airport to the convention center along the main thoroughfare of the city!!! She expected to have the masses turn out to watch this event. They reasoned that all of the palms along the middle medians had to be removed (and some hardwood trees as well) to accomodate the wingspan of the smaller private planes. Some of these palms were in excess of 30 feet tall!! Chainsawed out! This one time event was put on to gain the attention of all of the aviation community to possible attract them back again to Ft. Lauderdale.

Well I can tell you that she got so much backlash from removing the palms and trees, that it is a wonder why she was not immediately removed. I am certain that she HAS to be connected to survive a bufoon move like this one. She promised to return the canopy to it's original splendor, and when it was all said and done...she had the city stick some sickly Ptychosperma elegans in the media "because they can be removed and replanted easily, should this situation present itself again." I wanted to personally hunt her down and drive a plane over her myself.

[Dave-Vero]

The Florida billboard industry got the legislature to pass a bill prohibiting civic beautification projects, or ANY trees on public rights-of-way, from interfering with views of billboards.  Several landscaping projects have been destroyed already.

[TikiRick]

That's exactly what Florida needs...more billboards and nothing to absorb the reflective heat from the continual pour of concrete.

[BigFrond]

That guy is a certified dumbass!  I was in San Jose last year and noticed that the city was quite green compared to our SoCal cities.  San Jose planted lots of redwood(I think) and other conifers.  I have to admit that they do look very nice.  However, I'm totally against the moving of the W. filiferas for the grand prix.

[Tyrone]

(TikiRick @ May 07 2007,13:35)

QUOTE

This reminds me of one of the most incredible examples of sheer lack of intelligence and greed. Here in Ft. Lauderdale, the Director of Tourism attracted and agreed to host an "airplane parade" for some special group consisting of pilots, airplane enthusiasts, airline personnel and the like. They were driving their planes from the airport to the convention center along the main thoroughfare of the city!!! She expected to have the masses turn out to watch this event. They reasoned that all of the palms along the middle medians had to be removed (and some hardwood trees as well) to accomodate the wingspan of the smaller private planes. Some of these palms were in excess of 30 feet tall!! Chainsawed out! This one time event was put on to gain the attention of all of the aviation community to possible attract them back again to Ft. Lauderdale.

Well I can tell you that she got so much backlash from removing the palms and trees, that it is a wonder why she was not immediately removed. I am certain that she HAS to be connected to survive a bufoon move like this one. She promised to return the canopy to it's original splendor, and when it was all said and done...she had the city stick some sickly Ptychosperma elegans in the media "because they can be removed and replanted easily, should this situation present itself again." I wanted to personally hunt her down and drive a plane over her myself.

LOL What idiots

[SubTropicRay]

Nice response Jim.  What would Union Square look like without Phoenix canariensis?!

[PalmGuyWC]

Hey Rey!

Union Square might look even better if there were some Parajubaeas growing there.  It would be a perfect place for some, but I'm afraid it will never happen.

Dick

[ghar41]

San Jose could learn a great deal from the city of San Francisco, as apparently they have overcome many of thier anti palm people.  The Giants SBC baseball park is beautiful.  One of the most spectacular parks in the country, its surrounded by many Washingtonia's, in fact it is the main feature of its landscape.

I remember the early complaints during the planning stages that the Giants "were trying to copy Dodger stadium."  LOL  

Even the Westin Hotel (SF Airport) was brave enough to feature a palm, P. dactilifera, as its primary focus.  This was probably a stretch for them, as it doesn't seem well suited for the climate.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin....n_0Link

[PalmGuyWC]

Glenn,

I was contacted years ago by the landscape architect when the Westen Hotel was being built. I recommended CIDP, and he replied, "Oh no, we can't afford those as they are $4000 a piece and we can get P. dactilifera for $400." So, they planted dactiliferas and frankly I'm surprised they have done as well as they have, but they don't look all that great.

In the past few years some P. dactiliferas have been used for some commercial buildings in Concord and Plesant Hill CA.  They look fine as they love the summer heat. It seems the Univ. of CA landscape dept. in Berkeley frowns on palms, and most of the landscape architects in N. Calif. don't know doodley about palms.  A shame.

Dick

[rubyz]

(PalmGuyWC @ May 08 2007,22:14)

QUOTE

So, they planted dactiliferas and frankly I'm surprised they have done as well as they have, but they don't look all that great.

Dick, I assume you mean the these particular date palms "don't look all that great" because of poor care and/or microclimate conditions, and not because you think p. dactylifera is not a good-looking palm. Am I correct?

Beauty, as the saying goes, is in the eyes of the beholder, and I personally think the date palm is a hell of a lot more appealing than many of those Madagascar palms certain members have been drooling over!

[TikiRick]

And believe it or not, most Landscape Architects--period--don't know much about palms. That includes most in Florida as well. I routinely see them plant palms beneath wide eaves of banks, plant palms in too much shade/sun, or a water loving palm in a berm. The best is when they specify that a palm like a ROYAL is planted beneath the powerlines. Then the poor thing grows up only to have the utility company come and sheer off 1/2 of the fronds making it one sided.

Higher education at work.

[ghar41]

(PalmGuyWC @ May 08 2007,15:14)

QUOTE

Glenn,

I was contacted years ago by the landscape architect when the Westen Hotel was being built. I recommended CIDP, and he replied, "Oh no, we can't afford those as they are $4000 a piece and we can get P. dactilifera for $400." So, they planted dactiliferas and frankly I'm surprised they have done as well as they have, but they don't look all that great.

Dick

Dick,

Interesting.  ...wish they would've planted more dactylifera's here, when they were inexpensive!  

Even though they failed to follow your great advice and they do struggle in the climate, I guess the only good thing is that it does give the hotel a unique landscape for the area.

Also, if anyone does visit the hotel, the indoor pool is built inside of a glasshouse that is the home of many large tropical palms.

[PalmGuyWC]

Ruven,

I love P. dactalifera......when planted in the proper climate.  The ones we were refering to are planted right next to San Francisco Bay which is generally cool, windy, and foggy, definately not a desirable place for them.

Dick