Need some medical help

[Ben in Norcal]

Alright guys, need some help here with one of my king palms.  As many of you know, we have had an EXCEPTIONALLY wet winter here in Norcal, with plenty more rain on the way...lots of cool, damp weather.  Around a month or so ago I noticed that one of my king palms had what I think is some surface pink rot on the trunk, and I have been treating it with some systemics (Banrot & Subdue) since.  I've noticed that the bottom fronds are dying off in quick succession.  I will try to add some pictures below - the top couple of fronds and spear still look OK.  

What are the chances of this thing rebounding, or am I done for?

[Ben in Norcal]

Well, won't upload from my phone, so here are some links to Facebook:

[Monòver]

Archontophoenix love cool and wet weather, but may be your winter is too cool and wet.

The problem likes a fungal infection on the roots.

In Spain i am using a systemic, the name is "Pelt", ( Metil tiofanato ), the brand is Bayer.

I don't know if is posible to find it in California.

With this fungicide you have two options:

1 spray the leaves and water the roots with the fungicide.

2 endotherapy. With this you need special tools.

And the most important, good luck.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

3 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Alright guys, need some help here with one of my king palms.  As many of you know, we have had an EXCEPTIONALLY wet winter here in Norcal, with plenty more rain on the way...lots of cool, damp weather.  Around a month or so ago I noticed that one of my king palms had what I think is some surface pink rot on the trunk, and I have been treating it with some systemics (Banrot & Subdue) since.  I've noticed that the bottom fronds are dying off in quick succession.  I will try to add some pictures below - the top couple of fronds and spear still look OK.  

What are the chances of this thing rebounding, or am I done for?

Ben,

I work for the manufacturer of Banrot.  I'm involved in making decisions about where products, including Banrot, are registered.  Banrot is not registered for sale or use in CA.  I would like to get it registered there, but CA has been very reluctant with etridiazole, one of Banrot's a.i.   In addition, its not going to work on the trunk of a palm, its for treating roots  Whoever sold it to you made a mistake.  They really should refund your money and send a pick up tag so you are not in possession of an illegal pesticide.  If you wish reveal the shipper to me, I will contact them.  Use this e-mail:  keith.santner@icl-group.com.  

 

[Ben in Norcal]

6 minutes ago, Monòver said:

Archontophoenix love cool and wet weather, but may be your winter is too cool and wet.

The problem likes a fungal infection on the roots.

In Spain i am using a systemic, the name is "Pelt", ( Metil tiofanato ), the brand is Bayer.

I don't know if is posible to find it in California.

With this fungicide you have two options:

1 spray the leaves and water the roots with the fungicide.

2 endotherapy. With this you need special tools.

And the most important, good luck.

We have had so much rain, it's been ridiculous - AND I accidentally left the summer irrigation on.  So, until a few weeks ago, this tree was literally sitting in 40-50 degree water for weeks on end.  The other tree is perfectly healthy, but not sure the chances of rescuing this one?

[Ben in Norcal]

1 minute ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Ben,

I work for the manufacturer of Banrot.  I'm involved in making decisions about where products, including Banrot, are registered.  Banrot is not registered for sale or use in CA.  I would like to get it registered there, but CA has been very reluctant with etridiazole, one of Banrot's a.i.   In addition, its not going to work on the trunk of a palm, its for treating roots  Whoever sold it to you made a mistake.  They really should refund your money and send a pick up tag so you are not in possession of an illegal pesticide.  

Good to know for future reference, thanks Keith.  I believe this palm is suffering from root fungus in addition to the pink rot, which is why I used the systemics.  I have been spraying the trunk with copper fungicide.  But what do I know - no idea if this palm is salvageable or not.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Ben, Subdue works only on Pythium and Phytophthora root rot.  Its a great product, but won't control just any root rot.  So you would probably need to use another product in case the disease isn't Pythium or Phytophthora.  Thiophanate Methyl, (widely available in many brands), would probably work.  Just find one that has instructions for use in the landscape.  We don't sell Thiophanate Methyl by itself, only in the Banrot.  

 

Oh, pink rot is caused by Gliocladium virens.  Subdue won't touch that organism.

 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Oh I probably shouldn't have even opened this post.  :-)  But one more thing.  Most systemic pesticides only move upward in a plant.  So if you spray the shoots, nothing ever gets to the roots.  But if you apply to the roots, it will move up into the plant canopy.  The one exception is the group known as phosphites (Aliette is one brand in this class), but even they don't distribute evenly if applied to the shoots of the plant; its more like 70% stays up, 30% moves down.  So if the disease is in the roots, you really should apply it to the roots.  

[Ben in Norcal]

6 minutes ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Oh I probably shouldn't have even opened this post.  :-)  But one more thing.  Most systemic pesticides only move upward in a plant.  So if you spray the shoots, nothing ever gets to the roots.  But if you apply to the roots, it will move up into the plant canopy.  The one exception is the group known as phosphites (Aliette is one brand in this class), but even they don't distribute evenly if applied to the shoots of the plant; its more like 70% stays up, 30% moves down.  So if the disease is in the roots, you really should apply it to the roots.  

I did apply both Subdue and Thiophanate Methyl to the roots, and copper fungicide to the trunk.

Anyone that can opine on prognosis for this plant?  That would be most appreciated...trying to figure out if it has a shot or if I am better served to cut out. 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

My gut response, less that 25% chance of survival.  By the time they get to this stage, its uncommon for them to pull through.  

[Jdiaz31089]

We're due for another week of torrential rain starting tomorrow. Hope it pulls through for you!

[Ben in Norcal]

Yeah - my gut instinct is to cut this plant out and try to save it's companion.  But that's obviously a pretty severe tack so want to be sure the prognosis is poor before I do so.

[Monòver]

1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I did apply both Subdue and Thiophanate Methyl to the roots, and copper fungicide to the trunk.

Anyone that can opine on prognosis for this plant?  That would be most appreciated...trying to figure out if it has a shot or if I am better served to cut out. 

You must save it! Roots problems are the worst, but the palm is alive.

Copper is a preventive fungicide and not systemic, not good choice. My experience is spray and water the roots with Thyophanate Methyl ( Metil Tiofanato in spanish).

The dose is 0'15% for treat palms. For example, for 1 gallon water you must mix 0'15 gallon Thyophante Methyl.

[Gonzer]

Tree injection by Maujet.

[Josh-O]

9 hours ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Ben, Subdue works only on Pythium and Phytophthora root rot.  Its a great product, but won't control just any root rot.  So you would probably need to use another product in case the disease isn't Pythium or Phytophthora.  Thiophanate Methyl, (widely available in many brands), would probably work.  Just find one that has instructions for use in the landscape.  We don't sell Thiophanate Methyl by itself, only in the Banrot.  

 

Oh, pink rot is caused by Gliocladium virens.  Subdue won't touch that organism.

 

but bleach water will

[Josh-O]

Thyophanate Methyl  does work wonders.

I swear by the stuff.

[Ben in Norcal]

11 hours ago, Josh-O said:

but bleach water will

What do you recommend here, Josh? 1:10 ratio?

[DoomsDave]

21 hours ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Oh I probably shouldn't have even opened this post.  :-)  But one more thing.  Most systemic pesticides only move upward in a plant.  So if you spray the shoots, nothing ever gets to the roots.  But if you apply to the roots, it will move up into the plant canopy.  The one exception is the group known as phosphites (Aliette is one brand in this class), but even they don't distribute evenly if applied to the shoots of the plant; its more like 70% stays up, 30% moves down.  So if the disease is in the roots, you really should apply it to the roots.  

THAT is super informative!

Thanks a lot.

[DoomsDave]

21 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I did apply both Subdue and Thiophanate Methyl to the roots, and copper fungicide to the trunk.

Anyone that can opine on prognosis for this plant?  That would be most appreciated...trying to figure out if it has a shot or if I am better served to cut out. 

Try and save it.

You have nothing to lose.

Meantime, book a stateroom on the ark for rain that's coming. I've got one tied up in the Death Camp . . . . we're supposed to get 6" in a day.

[Ben in Norcal]

2 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Try and save it.

You have nothing to lose.

Meantime, book a stateroom on the ark for rain that's coming. I've got one tied up in the Death Camp . . . . we're supposed to get 6" in a day.

Thankfully Socal is getting hit harder this round of storms.  I think we're "only" going to get 3-4 inches over the next 6 days...though it will rain every day.

Feels like the freaking UK here!

[DoomsDave]

Just now, Ben in Norcal said:

Thankfully Socal is getting hit harder this round of storms.  I think we're "only" going to get 3-4 inches over the next 6 days...though it will rain every day.

Feels like the freaking UK here!

I was getting ready to send some rain to Louisiana . . .

But, not yet. This is only a brief rain in a long time of dry.

[Phoenikakias]

I would keep the plant and try to save it even by experimentation. The least gain would be more knowledge and experience and the biggest one to save it!  I usually apply a fosetyl paste (to much powder mixed with a small quantity of water) on the trunk wounds and this usually does miracles. I did the same a couple of times even on damaged main roots after in the process of a transplant...

[Ben in Norcal]

I cut it down, for fear of it spreading to the other palm.  The trunk was 75% rotten through...it wasn't going to come back. 

[Phoenikakias]

75% means that most of the trunk (at a certain height) was soft at touch or what? Admittedly posted pictures were not providing this impression.

[Ben in Norcal]

Just now, Phoenikakias said:

75% means that most of the trunk (at a certain height) was soft at touch or what? Admittedly posted pictures were not providing this impression.

Yes.  When I cut a cross section, I could literally push my finger down into the trunk.  It was black and spongey.  Should have taken pics!

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Yes.  When I cut a cross section, I could literally push my finger down into the trunk.  It was black and spongey.  Should have taken pics!

To heck with pics, I want to see the VIDEO!

 

Sorry for the loss.

[Monòver]

1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Yes.  When I cut a cross section, I could literally push my finger down into the trunk.  It was black and spongey.  Should have taken pics!

I think your problem was this fungus: Thielaviopsis paradoxa.

I have never seen this fungus in Archontophoenix, only in Phoenix, Syagrus and Howea.

It is impossible to save the palm when you see the brown leaves, because in this moment, the trunk always is rotten.

Now you must treat the other palms.

Good luck!

[Jdiaz31089]

That's too bad Ben! That was a nice palm you had. Hopefully it doesn't spread to the others. 

[Ben in Norcal]

3 hours ago, Monòver said:

I think your problem was this fungus: Thielaviopsis paradoxa.

I have never seen this fungus in Archontophoenix, only in Phoenix, Syagrus and Howea.

It is impossible to save the palm when you see the brown leaves, because in this moment, the trunk always is rotten.

Now you must treat the other palms.

Good luck!

It sure looks the same, from the trunk cross-section pics I found on the web.