SPEED: Queen Palm vs. Fishtail Palm

[Sandy Loam]

In your experience, which is the faster growing palm between Syagrus Romanzoffiana and Caryota Urens?  

 

Apart from these, are there any other palms which strike you as particularly fast-growing and semi-cold-hardy?  Please don't suggest any crownshaft palms, coconuts or pigafetta.  I can't grow those in my climate because I am not in the tropical south of Florida, or even the semi-tropical central Florida region.  I am up in the colder north.  A couple of crownshaft palms here are "borderline", but in general, they will not be long-term palms.

Also, please don't suggest Washingtonia Robusta because they are all dying here from either TPPD, Fusarium, Ganoderma, or something else. 

I look forward to your opinions.  Thank you!

 

[Patrick]

I have a Butia x Parajubea that has been pretty fast- and it's a real looker. It grows well in the cold, too, I mean, actually GROWS as opposed to grinding to a halt like most palms in winter. It's not as fast as a queen, though. Livistona decora has also been a fast grower for me- almost as fast as my queens. I can't say anything about Caryotas because where I live we have hot, drying windsd and the Caryotas do not care for that in the summer. Mules are also pretty fast and are more available than the BxP's. Hope this helped...

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

Your climate might change the equation, but C. urens roars past queens, no two ways, at least here in California. I have 3 C. urens that are about 70 feet tall after 10 years from 5 gallon plants. If I'd watered more, they might have doubled that, or close. There was a specimen, since died, which hit about 120 feet (41 M) before it was cut down.

But, you might want to go with queens, because: (a) they aren't haxapanthic (seed and die); (b) they might be hardier in general. Also, queens will give you wider, though not dense, canopy. Some urens are surprisingly hardy, but I don't think they compare with queens.

That said, again, your climate might make a big difference.

[DoomsDave]

I concur with Patrick, and suggest you consider his suggestions.

[Sandy Loam]

 

Doomsdave, how have your caryota urens grown in shady conditions?  Also, don't yours look brown anD awful during those rare cold snaps, e.g. the 2007 event?  Finally, how long do they live before they die? 

Thanks - I appreciate everyone's comments and look forward to more.

 

 

 

 

[DoomsDave]

7 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

 

"Doomsdave, how have your caryota urens grown in shady conditions?  Also, don't yours look brown anD awful during those rare cold snaps, e.g. the 2007 event?  Finally, how long do they live before they die? 

Thanks - I appreciate everyone's comments and look forward to more."

They got nipped a bit, but they were in the shade of a big cedar tree with provided shelter. They hit about 70 feet in 10 years from planting in 2006. One is going to seed now, my understanding is they live about 10 - 15 years on average. Too short.

Also, when they have to be cut down that wood is hard like stone.

They are magnificent! I love them, and when the seeds fall, I'll have a giant truckload of them, literally. But I don't look forward to having them removed which is going to happen someday.

 

 

 

 

[Sandy Loam]

Wow.  Well, queen palms might also have a 10-15 life span here as fusarium wilt continues to spread. Granted, I don't see nearly as many dead queens, CIDP or Phoenix Sylvestris as I see dead Washingtonias here, but there is a consensus that something is killing certain palms here.

Thanks Doomsdave --- I am dreading the idea of removing giant Caryota trunks, so I think I will pass after all.  Good luck with yours.

 

[DoomsDave]

45 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

Wow.  Well, queen palms might also have a 10-15 life span here as fusarium wilt continues to spread. Granted, I don't see nearly as many dead queens, CIDP or Phoenix Sylvestris as I see dead Washingtonias here, but there is a consensus that something is killing certain palms here.

Thanks Doomsdave --- I am dreading the idea of removing giant Caryota trunks, so I think I will pass after all.  Good luck with yours.

 

You might want to consider highland Caryota obtusa, which can be quite hardy, give a wider canopy and live longer, at least here in Califonrnia. Just don't plant them nest to a power pole or something else like that. (Like I did. )

[tacobender]

When I lived in CA north of bay area, my queens were over 50' tall in 9 yrs. Caryotas did not thrive due to chilly winters

 

[Sandy Loam]

Wow, I don't know I have ever seen a queen palm that tall in Florida ever.

[Ben in Norcal]

Caryotas do fine here, but are much slower than Queens.  Not sure why; we have 6 months of good heat, but perhaps the chilly winters set them back.

You might also consider JxS, which are on par with Queens or perhaps faster.

[Eric in Orlando]

Instead of Caryota urens I would try the Himalayan form of C. maxima. It is hardier than C. urens. But it is also short lived. Specimes planted at Leu Gardens back in 2003 have now reached about 50ft and started flowering in the past year. But C. urens planted at the same time is also flowering. It seems all the solitaire Caryota in Florida will flower within 10-15 years.

[Eric in Orlando]

16 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Wow, I don't know I have ever seen a queen palm that tall in Florida ever.

 

They are around but becoming rare since they are dying out. We just lost an old 50 footer at Leu Gardens. It was a survivor from the 1989 freeze. There were lots of these around Orlando but most were wiped out in '89. These taller ones were the more slender form that are less cold hardy, probably more northern Brazil/ tropical origins. 

When I was in high school i worked in the yard of a lady who owned a mansion built in the 20s, she and her late husband were the original owners. This was in 1983-84. They had dozens of queen palms, all were at least 40ft and some over 50ft. Some were killed in the '83 freeze, a few more in '85 and the rest in '89. There was one in front that survived until '89 that was maybe close to 60ft, the tallest queen palm I have ever seen. It was very healty but a very thin trunked form. I was suprised lightning never took it out.

[Sandy Loam]

 

Tall queen palms with slender trunks lining the length of Orange Avenue in Coronado Island, California (below).

 

 

 

[Eric in Orlando]

This was from several years ago, the old specimen here at Leu Gardens. It just recently died and is about 50ft tall. Here it is poking out of the 40-50ft tall tree canopy. It was the last survivor from the '80s freezes. There were a few others that survived these 3 freezes but they have died over the years from ganoderma or more recently the fusarium outbreak. They were all the thinner trunked/more tender forms. 

 

 

 

[Sandy Loam]

That is tall. Do you know what killed it?

[SouthSeaNate]

I would go with Syagrus romanzoffiana or a hybrid. Butiagrus are very fast too & have a different look to Queen palms.

[DoomsDave]

SL:

Definitely think of Butuagrus mules. They're wider in the crown, green, tough as nails and swifter than a fall into temptation, though not fast like queens or C. urens. But sustainable.

And, they're around.

[Eric in Orlando]

6 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

That is tall. Do you know what killed it?

Fusarium