Sabal palm issues/questions

[bbates123]

Hi everyone, my very first post here.  I'm having some issues with some sabal palms and I'm hoping that you can offer some advice.  We recently had a seawall installed on the lot next to our house in Cape Coral FL.  There were some smallish sabals growing wild amongst all the pepper bush, so I asked the seawall excavators to save them if possible.  The guy running the excavator carefully dug them out (as carefully as he could) and left them on the side of my property till they were done working.  I watered the exposed root balls for a good 2 weeks till the wall was done.  Then they dug holes where we wanted them to go and planted the palms in the holes, with generous dirt mounds around each of the palms to retain water.  There are 4 palms of various sizes...the biggest is about 3ft from ground to the area where all the new growth is emanating (the crown?) and the smallest is about 1.5ft, so they're fairly small.  We've been watering them daily for nearly 6 weeks now with a hose, filling the dirt ringed basins with generous amounts of water.  I've been thinking I should probably cut back on the water now to twice a day but we have had practically no rain the past few months.

2 of the palms seem to be doing fine, including the largest.  There is still green growth coming out of the crowns.  Nothing in the center of the crown looks brown.  The smallest palm had all of its leaves turn brown (including the center growth) so I gave it a hurricane cut.  I see 1 very small spike of green inside the crown but it hasn't moved much if at all in 6 weeks.  The dead growth in the center doesn't appear rotted, it's just brown.  Another of the 4 palms (2nd largest) still has green fronds but had all of its new growth turn brown.  Rather than just being dry and brown, it seemed to be rotting, so I tugged on it and most of that dead new growth came right out.  (is that what you call a spear pull?)  Like I said though, it does still have some healthy looking green fronds so I'm assuming the tree isn't dead.  Yet.

My questions are:  

1.  Are the palms with the dead centers for sure dead or should I give them a bit more time?  How much time should I give them with no new growth before I know for sure.   The palms have been out of the ground for a little over 2 months and in the ground for a little over 6 weeks.

2.  Somebody recommended to me that I treat them with a fungicide and see what happens. What are your thoughts on that?

3.  What do you think my watering schedule should be like?  Like I said, we are still in the middle of the dry season here with practically no rain.

4.  When should I be treating them with palm fertilizer to give them a boost?

 

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by bbates123

[Ben in Norcal]

Welcome!  Pics will help with diagnosis.  I have heard that small Sabals can be tough moves.

[bbates123]

OK, here are some pics...

 

First off is a shot of all 4 palms.

 

 

[bbates123]

This is the smallest palm with the all dry center

[bbates123]

This one looks OK to me.  Growth in the center is still green.

[bbates123]

This one is the worst of the bunch...this is where I had the "spear pull".  You can see there's a little baby next to it.  I guess if this one dies I can just let the baby grow.  I know it will take forever.

Edited January 25, 2017 by bbates123

[bbates123]

This one is the largest and the growth in the center is still nice and green.

[Walt]

Sorry to inform you, but all of those sabal palmetto will die. This is because, in this species, all severed roots die back to the trunk. If the palm has no trunk (which can store starch and get the palm regrowing again) most all sabals will die, as there's no starch to initiate new root growth. It's almost imperative that a Sabal palmetto have some trunk before it can be dug up and transplanted. I learned this the hard way trying to relocate native untrunked sabal palms on my property when I moved here in 1997.

Here's some University of Florida literature for you with respect to Sabal palms. Book mark this website for further plant and palm information you may need with respect to growing in Florida.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/st575

 

 

[bbates123]

Thanks for the link to the article, that was an informative read.  Well that is certainly depressing news.  Futile as it may sound, I'm tempted to keep pressing on to see if I get lucky with 1 or 2 vs giving up entirely after 2 months now of caring for these guys.  What is interesting to me is that 2 of them had all or some of their leaves die off including new growth rather quickly and 2 look basically the same as when they were dug up.

I'm assuming I will know this is a completely lost cause when all the existing leaves die and no new growth comes up?  When will I know for sure that I can put a fork in it?

[Walt]

1 hour ago, bbates123 said:

Thanks for the link to the article, that was an informative read.  Well that is certainly depressing news.  Futile as it may sound, I'm tempted to keep pressing on to see if I get lucky with 1 or 2 vs giving up entirely after 2 months now of caring for these guys.  What is interesting to me is that 2 of them had all or some of their leaves die off including new growth rather quickly and 2 look basically the same as when they were dug up.

I'm assuming I will know this is a completely lost cause when all the existing leaves die and no new growth comes up?  When will I know for sure that I can put a fork in it?

When my wife and I bought our current property (and had home built upon it) we had many Sabal palmettos on it. We wanted to site the house so that we could have existing Sabal palmettos compliment our landscape (after trimming them up) and actually flank our concrete parking pad leading into our garage. This required some of the smaller ones moved. I tried moving some small ones but they all died. About 15 years ago I dug a non trunked Sabal palmetto up and potted it up in rich potting soil. It looked great -- for awhile. Then, one by one the fronds started dying until they were all dead. I thought that odd as I had gotten lots of roots, were it any other kind of plant it would have surely recovered. It was soon afterward that I learned all the severed roots died in a Sabal palmetto.

As far as when to stick a fork in your palms, I can't say anything other than when the last frond starts to change color indicating it's dying.

But, yes, by all means keep trying to save your sabals, as you've very little to lose now. Also, reply back to your post thread and update us as to whether they die off or survive.

[bbates123]

Thanks for the helpful feedback!  I will for sure keep you posted.  If they're going to die I can't imagine things will stay green for too much longer

[Palmaceae]

Welcome, I live in the Cape also (there are a few of us here that are from the Cape). I have to agree with Walt as they probably won't make it, I have tried transplanting a couple small palmetto's and they did not make it.  It is funny as I have over 140 species of palms in my garden but have been unsuccessful in growing our native Sabal ;-)

[bbates123]

Well thank you, great to see some neighbors here!  And dang...this is really bumming me out.  These palms grow like weeds around here.  I have several in my lot next door that the city mowers keep mowing over and they keep coming back.  That's why it's so odd that they would be so traumatized by a transplanting.

 

[PalmatierMeg]

The general rule is to only attempt to transplant Sabals with 4' or more of trunk. Before reaching that size, the palm's growing point remains underground. Digging the palm out of the ground fatally damages the vulnerable growing point.

Welcome to PalmTalk. Good to have another member from Cape Coral.

[bbates123]

Well they've been out of the ground two and a half months now.  The smallest one is gone, the one that I pulled the dead center growth from about 6 weeks ago is slowly fading (leaves are still green but they're drooping), and the other 2 seem to be doing well.  I'm still watering them every day.  I'm holding out some hope for a miracle.  Will keep you posted.

[KsLouisiana]

I would love an update on this!

[Fusca]

I'm sure @bbates123 would have updated if there were any survivors.  But unfortunately chances are slim to none that he had any different experience than what @Walt described.  Years ago before I had read anything about this I tried the same transplant with a small palmetto - probably 2/3 the size of the large one pictured above.  Lots of work to dig myself in the Houston, Texas heat and humidity to get most of the roots.  It looked fine for a couple of months, then one by one the leaves died off.

[JLM]

I tried transplanting 2 Sabals at the end of last summer and i lost one of them, it spear pulled not long after being planted. Although, the smaller one is still living and has started to push out a frond slowly but surely. This one is much smaller than any of those that you have though, and the biggest one that died was slightly smaller than you smallest one. Lesson learned.

[KsLouisiana]

I don't know man.  I've had luck both times i transplanted palmetto trees here in Louisiana.  One was ripped up in the hurricane and the other one I found "dead" washed up on the beach. The beach one only has maybe 2 foot of trunk.  I guess my experience has been alot different than what other people say. 

[KsLouisiana]

[Fiona]

Here in Texas the freeze killed all the fronds but I’m seeing new growth from the ground.. so I keep the old crowns or chop them down? 

[KsLouisiana]

On 4/9/2021 at 11:42 AM, Fiona said:

Here in Texas the freeze killed all the fronds but I’m seeing new growth from the ground.. so I keep the old crowns or chop them down? 

Post a pic of it and some people might be able to help more?