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Sable palmetto vs Sable mexicana


topwater

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Is there any easy way to differentiate Sable palmetto from Sable mexicana?  Here in Texas, most nurserys have both and they are widely used in commercial landscaping, not so much in residential situations. 

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From my (limited) experience, Sabal mexicana is a bit heftier as a mature palm, and the inflorescences are much shorter (see attached picture).

588806f07da54_ScreenShot2017-01-24at21.0

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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from what Ive seen, sabal mexicana has more in line boots while sabal palmetto boots are less organized and more jagged.  I assume palmetto grows taller while I could be wrong

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Mexicana has a larger and open crown and the seed size is more than double the size. If properly watered and fed mexicana will have a much stouter trunk. 

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The reason I ask is that Sabal (sorry for misspelling it in the title) palms are naturalizing in a big way around here.  Almost all fence rows and other hard to mow areas have these guys volunteering, its really cool!  I've been curious if these are our native Mexican Sabals or introduced palmettos. I suspect there's probably some of both, though I admittedly can't tell one Sabal from another. The pic is from a ditch in front of the local fried chicken joint were 4 or 5 palms popped up. 

IMG_1602.JPG

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3 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Mexicana has a larger and open crown and the seed size is more than double the size. 

I had a feeling they would have to be in flower to tell for sure. Maybe I can compare seeds next year and see if I can tell what's what. 

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IMOH, if those produce seeds next year, they are probably S. minor.  If not, then I would guess that they are S. palmetto.  Seems to me that S. palmetto is more prevalent around the Houston area with S. mexicana not really kicking in until around Victoria or so.  But I could be wrong. :)

Clay

South Padre Island, Zone 10b until the next vortex.

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4 hours ago, Austinpalm said:

IMOH, if those produce seeds next year, they are probably S. minor.  If not, then I would guess that they are S. palmetto.  Seems to me that S. palmetto is more prevalent around the Houston area with S. mexicana not really kicking in until around Victoria or so.  But I could be wrong. :)

I agree. Trunking Sabal palmetto from florida has been trucked in by the thousands for most commercial landscaping in Houston. The only sabal mexicana i see around houston are in yards, or single/ pairs planted in front of small businesses. 

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To my knowledge, S. minor doesn't exist around here.  We have tons of Sabals, but they are all introduced yet naturalizing quite rapidly.  I guess I didn't ask my question clearly.  How can I tell the difference between the two, assuming that they're some of both?  I snapped a picture of those little guys because I drive by them every day on my way to work, I promise they gonna get big! 

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14 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I agree. Trunking Sabal palmetto from florida has been trucked in by the thousands for most commercial landscaping in Houston. The only sabal mexicana i see around houston are in yards, or single/ pairs planted in front of small businesses. 

I think you're right, one of our previous mayors had a real thing for Sabals and he planted them all over town. Most of them do look to be relatively thin trunked with a small canopy, so I bet they are palmettos from Florida. I'll try to post some pics this weekend.  Whatever they are they love it here  because the volunteers are coming up everywhere. I believe a local nursery had some mexicanas and as I recall they where much more robust. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is S. mexicana in Augusta, GA.  The seeds are huge compared with S. palmetto.  Bloom stalks are shorter than S. palmetto, but not as short as S. 'Riverside'.  S. mexicana has been slower growing for me.  Does anybody know if it prefers less acidic soil.  Maybe I should throw some lime around the palm and see what happens.

DSC_0012.jpg

 

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Joseph C. Le Vert

Augusta, GA

USA

Zone 8

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I see also in last picture that hastula has less pronounced or absent theyellow color. Does this also apply on Sabal palmetto or is the situation different or is it a random feature overall? Generally speaking which Sabal spp have pronounced yellow hastula, provided that last case is of course excluded?

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  • 2 months later...

Great topic for a thread, I try to pick out the differences btwn the 2. The palmettos doesn't seem to be as robust and spread as far as the mexicanas do. Sabal Mexicana is my favorite palm in Austin. Here's a shot from the back of Laguna Gloria looking up towards the villa. I'm not sure how old the palms are from here, but I'm growing the seeds I collected in the fall.

mex.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 1/25/2017, 11:38:30, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Mexicana has a larger and open crown and the seed size is more than double the size. If properly watered and fed mexicana will have a much stouter trunk. 

Here's some seeds from what I think is Sabal Mexicana vs Sabal Palmetto. 

mexicana v palmetto.jpg

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On 4/11/2017, 12:28:32, Brian F. Austin said:

Great topic for a thread, I try to pick out the differences btwn the 2. The palmettos doesn't seem to be as robust and spread as far as the mexicanas do. Sabal Mexicana is my favorite palm in Austin. Here's a shot from the back of Laguna Gloria looking up towards the villa. I'm not sure how old the palms are from here, but I'm growing the seeds I collected in the fall.

mex.jpg

Nice pictures! I have noticed that Sabal mexicana fronds look more spred out from each other allowing you to kind of see the trunk part of the grown while Sabal palmetto crowns look bushier. Also Sabal mexicana fronds look a little thicker. Look at this picture of Sabal palmetto in Charleston, S.C. and during a rare snowfall! (Source: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1OPRB_enUS543US556&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=894&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=sc+state+house+palms&oq=sc+state+house+palms&gs_l=img.3...101012.102129.0.102273.6.6.0.0.0.0.278.726.4j1j1.6.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.3.444...0j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i24k1.NKC9Qs36lds#imgrc=JFrmD2CrpicF2M:)

 

99d130dfca5ba009512c5877d1a44b0a.jpg

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PalmTreeDude

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I like the snow shot! Here is 2 photos of neighborhood Texas Sabals, they are impressive in size up close. I really like the solo tree with the skirt in the 2nd shot. I found just a few seeds from that tree.

The last photo is of what I think is a Sabal Palmetto, it's fairly diminutive in size compared to the Sabal Mexicanas. Almost Bonsai like. I don't know if that's due to genetics or environment. Those small seeds above were from this tree.

 

austin-mex1.jpg

austin-mex.jpg

palmetto.jpg

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After looking at lots of both, my take is that the 2 Sabals are kind of like the 2 Washies we see.  Palmettos are thin trunked, tall and graceful, like a robusta, whereas the texana is a stockier brute of a palm, more like a filifera with a larger canopy.  The difference is more pronounced with Washies, but I think I'm getting to where I can pick out S. texana from the ubiquitous palmettos planted around here.  I recently purchased a texana.  If it does well I may get another plus a palmetto as I love them both. 

IMG_0347.JPG

Edited by topwater
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  • 2 weeks later...

I can't wait to see the progress on your palm, it looks like full sun and a beautiful view.

Here's 2 different older palms around Lady Bird Lake (town lake) that I am unsure if they are s. palmetto or s. mexicana or something else. Maybe someone can chime with more experience than me. There is a shot that shows the older flower stems and how long they are. I don't think I've found seed from these yet. 

 

 

 

 

3.jpg

1.jpg

2.jpg

Edited by Brian F. Austin
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  • 11 months later...

Both sabal mexicana and palmetto should be able to grow in the Houston metro. I see no reason why sabal mexicana can't grow in Houston if it can grow in the Garcitas Creek area near La Salle.

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1 hour ago, AnTonY said:

Both sabal mexicana and palmetto should be able to grow in the Houston metro. I see no reason why sabal mexicana can't grow in Houston if it can grow in the Garcitas Creek area near La Salle.

Sabal mexicana grow to ripe old age in the dallas metroplex. Zero problems. 

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I missed that nuance.  There are a lot of Mexicana around Houston and always looked healthier than the palmetto.  I don't know if that is due to the Mexicana primarily being planted by individuals and small businesses and better taken care of opposed to the mass plantings of palmetto that usually look nutrient deficient around the city.

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/27/2017, 9:50:22, topwater said:

I think you're right, one of our previous mayors had a real thing for Sabals and he planted them all over town. Most of them do look to be relatively thin trunked with a small canopy, so I bet they are palmettos from Florida. I'll try to post some pics this weekend.  Whatever they are they love it here  because the volunteers are coming up everywhere. I believe a local nursery had some mexicanas and as I recall they where much more robust. 

I know around Galveston and Texas City you see a lot of sabal palmettos, but in Houston on you mostly see sabal mexicanas. I'm from Panama City, FL, but moved to Houston back in 2000. When I first moved here I remember asking myself, "why in the hell are these sabals so big?" I just assumed that the saying about everything being bigger in Texas was correct. Lol! Then I began to study palms and learned that theses are indeed a different species of sabal then the palmettos I grew up admiring back home. I love how robust the mexicanas are, and they do look better than the palmettos that I see planted in Texas IMO. However, the palmettos back home are absolutely gorgeous and more healthy looking so I like the palmettos a little more. 

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I planted what I call my "Sabal Row" on the west edge of the vacant lot next door with Sabals causiarum, domingensis, maritima, mauritiiformis & palmetto I grew from seeds I germinated after I joined PT in 2008. Ten years later, the several palmettos are much smaller than their behemoth cousins. Palmetto seems to be the most "petite" of the trunking Sabals, not only staying smaller but also growing slower. The other Sabals, except mauritiiformis, are now trunking and all, except mauritiiformis and palmetto, have been flowering for the past several years. I'm fixing to cut off their inflorescenses so I'm not inundated with seeds, then volunteers. My only flowering Sabal palmetto is my largest Sabal Lisa, now in its 2nd year. I am also trying S. palmetto 'Mocksville', which is reputed to mature sooner - we'll see. But it's just going palmate and years from flowering.

I don't have S. mexicana, although I have a Sabal xbrazoria, but don't plan to get one. I'm not sure but I think it, like S. pumos, is more of a desert palm and may not take well to my FL swelter.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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