Saw Palmetto Colonies live 5000+ Years! Holy cow!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Today I received the Journal of the Florida Native Plant Society aptly entitled "Palmetto". The journal's focus this quarter was two palms known as "Palmettoes"; Sabal etonia, and Sereno repens, Saw Palmetto.  Scientists have done some intensive investigations in an effort to understand how long these big, sprawling colonies live.  Their conclusion is that 500 year old colonies are common, and that colonies in excess of 5000 years are likely.  The growth rate in situ is a an amazing 88mm per year!  Of course, young specimens in cultivation grow much faster, but I found this report to be very eye opening.  Sorry, couldn't find a respectable photo but maybe someone else can fix that.

[Josh-O]

Very interesting Keith! Thanks for sharing this info

[Walt]

The colonies may live 5,000 years, where older palms die and new ones emerge, but single palms don't have such life expectancy (I'm not saying the article implied this, just saying).

Back in 2002 I posted at this forum photos of the tallest (confirmed) Serenoa repens in the world, that I found growing just miles from my house, on the east shore of Lake June. These palms were measured and confirmed by the Florida Native Plant Society, South Ridge Chapter president Norman Cook (now deceased). I was with Norman and assisted him in measuring a large clump of Serenoa repens. The tallest measured 25 feet, with many in the 24+ feet range.

However, they were only considered co champions (with two other clumps in Florida) because they lacked the largest trunk caliper and crown spread. The criteria to be a state champion for Serenoa repens are: over all height, trunk caliper, and crown spread.

I contacted one of our local newspapers (News-Sun) about these palms and they did an article on them, complete with color photo of the clump.

Years ago the University of Florida (in their EDIS literature on Serenoa repens) stated such slow growth rate in just mere 10ths of an inch per year. They have since removed that data from their Serenoa repens publications -- as no doubt, it was incorrect. Serenoa repens grow much faster than originally thought. I know this for an absolute fact, as I have more Serenoa repens palms then I can shake a stick at, and I've watched them go from no trunk to 1-2 feet of trunk in 10 years time. And these are palms that get absolutely no fertilizer (directly or indirectly) or purposeful irrigation.

And that clump of Serenoa repens I referred to above? All have since died and new palms are growing, and growing fairly fast. 

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fp547

I have a clump of semi vertical Serenoa repens, and I estimate they have grown many, many feet of trunk since I first bought my property back in early 1998 (photos I took of the over the years confirm this). 

 

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

There are some unbelievable clumps/colonies on the beach south of cape canaveral. A few clumps covered about an acre and had more 10' decumbent trunks than i could count. 

[Walt]

In the Bob Riffle-Paul Craft book, An Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms, there are two photos of the Lake Placid, Florida, Serenoa clump. Bob misidentified the clumps as being in Lake June, Florida, and that they were 18-feet clumps. The palms are actually growing near the east shore of Lake June, just about 1 mile west of the town of Lake Placid, Florida. I was with Bob the day he took the photos.. He came to my house and we drove over to the location.

At that time, in the spring of 2003, the Florida Almanac listed the champion Serenoa repens as being in both Ft. Pierce and also some state park (can't recall name now) up in northern central Florida.

Like I said in a previous posting, the criteria used to determine a champion Serenoa repens is overall height, trunk diameter, and crown spread. However, I think three should be an additional criterion that includes the total developed length of the trunk as measured along the axis of the trunk, for palms that creep more along the ground and/or just grow more horizontally and serpentine like. My clump (that was in video) has some trunks that were once semi vertical but then collapsed to the ground and are now growing along the ground and away from the trunk. I haven't measured the trunks for length, but they sure are longer than when they were semi vertical.

I will try to find my photos and re post them showing Norman Cook measuring the palms.

From my experience growing both green and silver form Serenoa repens, the silver variety is the faster grower.

[kinzyjr]

The longer I live in Florida, the more I appreciate the variance and beauty of our native palms.

[Walt]

Below are some photos I posted at this forum back in 2002. But every one of these tall saw palmettos have died, with the shorter understory ones now growing up. I watched all of these saw palmettos die one by one over a period of several years. They are growing on a vacant lot in the lake side community of Lake June Pointe, just east of the town of Lake Placid. My parents used to live in this community, plus I have several friends who also live there; hence, I was able to monitor these palms over the years.

I remember the day I spotted these palms as I was driving by. I had to do a double take, as they looked too tall to be Sabal palmetto, and much to skinny to be Sabal palmetto. Upon close inspection I noticed many of the trunks had no "still attached" frond bases, but were mostly smooth to the touch.

I called the then president, Norman Cook, of the Florida Native Plant Society, South RIdge chapter, and he and I went and took measurements and photos, as he was going to take them to a meeting in Tallahassee to get these palms certified has state champions. He also was taking photos of a large silk bay tree that he said he believed to be a state champion.

The first photo below shows Norman Cook measuring up to a fixed point on one of the saw palmetto trunks in preparation to take height measurements.

 

[Walt]

The below photo shows the extent of the saw palmetto clump. I think the clump spanned a vacant lot and also an occupied lot. The owner of the occupied lot cleaned up his saw palmettos. The shorter saw palmettos in the photo are noticably taller now. The vacant lot is still for sale. Somebody had really taken a beating in property taxes over at least 15 years that I know the lot has been vacant.

 

 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Those are great Saw Palmettos Walt.  

 

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Those are great Saw Palmettos Walt.  

 

Yes, Keith, they were (past tense!) nice ones. Too bad the tallest ones died out. But like I said earlier (and in my video) many of the tallest ones in my clump inexplicably died one by one within a few months time. However, I don't know the cause of their demise, whether insects, disease, or just old age.

[PalmTreeDude]

3 hours ago, Walt said:

Below are some photos I posted at this forum back in 2002. But every one of these tall saw palmettos have died, with the shorter understory ones now growing up. I watched all of these saw palmettos die one by one over a period of several years. They are growing on a vacant lot in the lake side community of Lake June Pointe, just east of the town of Lake Placid. My parents used to live in this community, plus I have several friends who also live there; hence, I was able to monitor these palms over the years.

I remember the day I spotted these palms as I was driving by. I had to do a double take, as they looked too tall to be Sabal palmetto, and much to skinny to be Sabal palmetto. Upon close inspection I noticed many of the trunks had no "still attached" frond bases, but were mostly smooth to the touch.

I called the then president, Norman Cook, of the Florida Native Plant Society, South RIdge chapter, and he and I went and took measurements and photos, as he was going to take them to a meeting in Tallahassee to get these palms certified has state champions. He also was taking photos of a large silk bay tree that he said he believed to be a state champion.

The first photo below shows Norman Cook measuring up to a fixed point on one of the saw palmetto trunks in preparation to take height measurements.

 

These ones make me think of Key Thatch palms! They look so good! Only if they were fast growers. 

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

On 1/20/2017, 7:44:41, Walt said:

Yes, Keith, they were (past tense!) nice ones. Too bad the tallest ones died out. But like I said earlier (and in my video) many of the tallest ones in my clump inexplicably died one by one within a few months time. However, I don't know the cause of their demise, whether insects, disease, or just old age.

Walt, maybe they've reached their maximum length.  Had they laid down and formed adventitious roots, those stems might not have died.  Walt, did those big stems on yours stay upright and never have a chance of forming roots along the trunks?

[Dave-Vero]

The Palmetto article is based on research done at Archbold Biological Station, starting with clever investigations designed by Warren Abrahamson of Bucknell University.  They relied on DNA data to identify genetically distinct individuals, then calculated how far stems must have grown for identical growing points to be separated.  The estimated growth rates are accurate for the area, and the estimates of minimum possible clone ages are carefully arrived-at.  The ability to crawl along, developing new roots, and also the ability of stems to bifurcate (split) occasionally, makes such extraordinarily long life possible.  It's quite a story.

[Eric in Orlando]

When I go out hiking in wild areas it just amazes me when I see gigantic Serenoa clumps that are maybe hundreds of years old or older. Most people are amazed when they see giant Quercus virginiana with their massive canopies that are 200-500 years old but that nearby patch of "weedy palmetto" could be even older.

 

 

[hbernstein]

I wonder if the individual stems are unable to hydrostatically pump properly once they reach a certain height?