Containing clumping bamboo by surrounding with palms? Possible?

[Sandy Loam]

Hello all. I should have posted this question (click link below) into this forum instead of 'other tropical plants': 

So far, I have only received one reply and would be grateful to receive additional opinions if you have any experience  with this -- or even speculation about the possible outcome of this experiment.  I am waiting for feedback before attempting this experiment.  

Many thanks! 

 

[wimmie]

On 1/4/2017, 4:49:51, Sandy Loam said:

Hello all. I should have posted this question (click link below) into this forum instead of 'other tropical plants': 

So far, I have only received one reply and would be grateful to receive additional opinions if you have any experience  with this -- or even speculation about the possible outcome of this experiment.  I am waiting for feedback before attempting this experiment.  

Many thanks! 

 

Sandy, what do you mean by "contain"? If you mean to ask whether you can plant palms around a clumping bamboo, I tend to say yes, but if you are asking whether surrounding palms can prevent bamboos from running around your garden, I would say "no".

Wim.

[DoomsDave]

I agree heartily with Wimmie, from personal observation. The only thing that will stop running bamboo is a solid barrier. And I mean SOLID, like thick plastic, stone brick etc.

Some people say digging trenches around the bamboo will stop it. That won't stop it unless someone chops it, i.e., hacks off the rhizomes when they appear in the trench. Which is a pain, because of the dead junk that fills them.

 

[Sandy Loam]

Hi everybody. I may have forgotten to mention that this is NOT a running bamboo. Rather, it is a large-cane clumping bamboo, namely Bambusa Ventricosa.

Does this change your opinions?  Hopefully it will. Keep posting!

 

 

[Palmə häl′ik]

[Jamesasb]

I would think that this is a good way to kill palm trees, in a way the clumpers are worse than runners because they are so dense. it will prevent enough air and water getting to the palm roots whereas bamboo are very tolerant to anaerobic soil conditions. you can even grow them on compost heaps!

[waykoolplantz]

Crowd them...but not block them from spreading.

We have 60+ species of non-running bamboo...10x that in palms.. If you ever come down thissa way...getintouch.

[WestCoastGal]

A few years back we planted some clumping bamboo. Thought I read in my research before then that clumping bamboo has a natural radius that it will grow out to and the distance would depend on the variety. We have B multiplex var. gracilis (slender weavers bamboo) which I thought was said to have about a 5 ft radius. We have it in a maybe 4 ft planting bed and just stay on top of breaking off new growth and cutting roots below that reach past a certain bed width.

So is your thinking to surrounding the bamboo with palms just to keep it in check diameter-wise? I'd wonder about it getting sunlight, air circulation (bamboo can get scale), and fighting the palms for water and kind of doubt the palms will "contain" the roots completely. Another concern I would have trying to do that would be if you need to remove the bamboo and being able to get to it. Sure someone will be cursing trying to do it. Personally I wouldn't. Dave's Garden's comments on "ventricose" mention a radius of 10-15 ft and 20 ft diameter. Best approach I would think would be to keep to a regular maintenance program, breaking off unwanted shoots, periodically thinning out and cutting the roots around your established perimeter.

[DoomsDave]

13 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Hi everybody. I may have forgotten to mention that this is NOT a running bamboo. Rather, it is a large-cane clumping bamboo, namely Bambusa Ventricosa.

Does this change your opinions?  Hopefully it will. Keep posting!

 

 

I'm with WestCoastGal, and reiterate that force will be needed to contain bamboo. Planting palms, by itself won't mean a durn' thang.'

(The same is true, by the way of Rhapis palms!)

Been there, done that. I believe the accurate way to look at it is that clumping bamboo is invasive, but readily controllable like domestic black Angus bulls, while running bamboo is much less so, like rogue bull elephants who want that cow, now! (Or like a Pop Warner football team on too much Pepsi, vs. the Oakland Raiders on meth.)

Either way, it can be a great source of bamboo shoots to eat. If you don't like them, it helps to have someone around who does, as they'll be motivated and there will be plenty available as the clumps grow.

There are times when it's good that bamboo runs amok, as when you have a serious problem with repeat invaders, or persistent voyeurs. But I would not let my prize palms in the mix, unless they're something that's so monstrous even the bamboo won't overwhelm them.

Please let us know what you do, and keep us apprized. It will add to the greater body of knowledge.

[Sandy Loam]

Thanks, everyone --- and please do keep posting if anyone else out there has an opinion or suggestion.

WestCoastGal, you said: "Best approach I would think would be to keep to a regular maintenance program, breaking off unwanted shoots, periodically thinning out and cutting the roots around your established perimeter."   I know that if I am vigilant daily during August-September, I can trample down the baby shoots if I catch them quickly as they first emerge from the ground. However, even if I break off the unwanted shoots when the clump gets too wide (soon), won't the rosette-shaped rhizome then send out new shoots which are increasingly farther and father away from the original clump?  That circular rhizome grows outward continuously, forever, doesn't it? 

In Orlando, I see dozens of bamboo clumps which are old, but have seemingly stopped growing outward in diameter and are not more than, say, 3 or 4 feet wide (but with giant canes).  I used to think that was just due to the age of the clump, but now I suspect that there are underground barriers of some sort which have stopped those clumps from expanding -- giant tree roots, concrete, sidewalks, etc.  

Also, WestCoastGal, you suggested "cutting the roots around your established perimeter."  I really want to avoid that because I have heard that you need a big, powerful sawzall (reciprocating saw), have to dig the entire area around the rhizome, and then it is the equivalent of chopping two-by-four wood planks underground with a hatchet.  It is supposed to be an incredibly laborious process, and I likely don't have the skills or time to invest in it.  Have you actually been doing this each year?  A large cane bamboo's rhizome is at least three feet deep underground.  Of course, you have a bamboo clump that is a much more slender variety than my two clumps, but I wanted those big, thick canes and now I'm paying the price for it.

 

I see people around town who have "hedge bamboo" which has very slim canes.  To contain it, all they seem to do is run their lawn mower along the side of it from time to time.  It's totally different from mine and much more manageable.  

My second clump is Bambusa Oldhamii.  It does not concern me because it seems to grow at a much slower pace than my Bambusa Ventricosa.           

        

[WestCoastGal]

Don't know if this will help you or not but we found the Bamboo Garden site extremely helpful when we were selecting bamboo and researching the maintenance for it. 

This page link is on maintaining and root pruning including info on trenching and a root cutting spade.   http://www.bamboogarden.com/barrier%20installation.htm  Near the bottom of this page are photos and descriptions of the clumping bamboo's root system.   http://www.bamboogarden.com/Hardy%20clumping.htm

Since our bamboo is shorter and a smaller culm variety, not sure how applicable our experience is with yours. I'd suggest calling a local bamboo nursery for their suggestions. The American Bamboo Society has a list of sources for B ventricose with several in Florida and I'm sure they would be happy to help.  http://www.bamboo.org/BambooSourceList/ShowSources.php?Type=S&BooID=77

 

[wimmie]

On 1/6/2017, 7:07:17, Sandy Loam said:

Hi everybody. I may have forgotten to mention that this is NOT a running bamboo. Rather, it is a large-cane clumping bamboo, namely Bambusa Ventricosa.

Does this change your opinions?  Hopefully it will. Keep posting!

 

 

Sandy, even clumping Bamboos may send a runner out once and awile; so, keep on top of them!

Wim.

[CLINODAVE]

Interesting situation.  Here in wet East HI, there are introduced running bamboos that I have watched consume many acres of sunny former sugar cane land over the years.  I have huge timber bamboos at my place that have never "run."  My observations are that mowing really takes the wind out of running bamboo's sails.  I do know of a commercial fruit grower who reportedly had problems with the roots of his clumping bamboo windbreaks reaching well beyond the vegetative clump and competing for nutrients with his fruit trees. There folks here who "rip" windbreak tree roots in their orchards in order to lessen the competition.  Dunno what equipt they use, although my own practice is just to give extra food to trees adjacent to vegetation with more aggressive roots.

[Sandy Loam]

Has anyone tried laying down a circular wall of heavy paving stones (pavers) surrounding their bamboo clump?  I have been considering this.  The wall would have been about two feet wide all the way around the bamboo clump.  I don't know whether this would stop the new shoots from pushing up underneath the pavers, but I have seen clumping bamboo hit the edge of concrete/pavement barriers and seemingly stop there (although one never knows what is going on underground beneath the pavement).

Are there any clumping bamboo experts out there who would know?  

By the way, the clump that I am concerned about on my property is bambusa ventricosa 'Buddha Belly', not to be confused with the other Buddha Belly clumping bamboo with the very prominent nodes.        

Thanks to anyone who can provide guidance. This is an ongoing concern for me, although I do love my bamboo.      

[fiji jim]

Here we have clumping bamboo growing close to some palms and we find that they are easy to control.

Every month or two we check them and as new culms appear we just kick them off as they are rather soft and brittle when less than 2 feet high.

The biggest problem is when they lean a lot and shade out other plants. Those culms need to be cut off.

However  some species are more vigorous than others.

[sur4z]

...seems to me the best thing to do is remove the bamboo and plant more palms

[Xenon]

I wonder if vetiver grass can contain bamboo (if it gets enough light)...grows a dense mat of vertical roots sometimes over 3 m/10 ft in length. Used for erosion control in the tropics. 

[kinzyjr]

If by "contain" you mean in a 10x10 to 15x15 area, you might...by accident.  I have bambusa oldhamii and it hasn't proven to be overly aggressive so far.  I agree with the other posters that are saying to either remove it or give it the proper space.

[Sandy Loam]

Thanks, all.

Vetiver grass?  That is an teresting suggestion, Xenon, but I am not optimistic that it would work.  I put that question to the expert gardeners who read and post on PalmTalk.

 

Kinzyjr, I too have a clump of bambusa oldhamii and it is not very aggressively spreading.  It is quite slow to spread, thankfully, and may take another 20 years before it outgrows it's designated space.   My bambusa ventricola grows MUCH more quickly, so I might just have to rip it out. 

I previously had a clump of bambusa malingensis, but had to dig it up because it was the most aggressive of all (avoid it unless you seek instant screening and have loads of space).

So, is the PalmTalk consensus that a two foot wide barrier of heavy, flat paving stones (stacked three levels high) will NOT stop my bambusa ventricosa from spreading outward? --- even if the new canes are prohibited from coming up out of the ground?

Our local botanical gardens controls the size of certain bambusa clumps by having staff dig around the base and remove chunks of the rhizome with a Sawzall reciprocating saw.  That process must be so incredibly laborious that it is simply not realistic for the average homeowner.