Brought most of my palms indoors for winter, now this?!

[smithgn]

Like most of us palm lovers, we own palms we have no business growing in our zones. So, it got to be that time of year so I brought in all of my zone 9 palms indoors and left the butias and sabals outdoors. As for my zone 9 palms, They've been indoors for about 2 weeks now and most are exhibiting lower leaves browning and dying off. The spears still look great so I figure this Is just due to the low amount of light and photosynthesis so my palms are cutting off nutrients to these lower fronds. But with these two palms, my Actinokentia Divaricata and my Rhapis, they both have gotten this very dark brown/black color that has rapidly taken over rather healthy leaves. This has been occurring from the tip of the leaf inwards, which is different from what is happening to my other palms. What could this be due to? I've soaked them in water in my bath tub for the time being, thinking that they're too dry; will that be the cure?

I purposely put most of my palms in my bathroom where I take showers daily... Almost . Is this not enough humidity for them?

 

 

Actinokentia Divaricata (this palm is a well-behaved, non-fussy palm for me. I'm surprised it's been acting up a little since the move indoors)

 

 

Rhapis Excelsa

 

 

[knell]

I have done a few amateur experiments with indoor thermometers, and unless you are blasting scalding hot water for a long time, it is hard to increase the RH by more than 4% for more than a couple of hours, unless it is a very small room with no vents. Every little bit helps but healthy roots, soil medium and watering are way more important.

How do you heat your house? Do you have a way of measuring the dew point? Acclimating palms can be important for some species, others seem to rush into indoor scenarios, so i read this with great interest. Thank you for the pictures and please update us on the progress.

[smithgn]

36 minutes ago, knell said:

I have done a few amateur experiments with indoor thermometers, and unless you are blasting scalding hot water for a long time, it is hard to increase the RH by more than 4% for more than a couple of hours, unless it is a very small room with no vents. Every little bit helps but healthy roots, soil medium and watering are way more important.

How do you heat your house? Do you have a way of measuring the dew point? Acclimating palms can be important for some species, others seem to rush into indoor scenarios, so i read this with great interest. Thank you for the pictures and please update us on the progress.

I took a quick picture of my current situation. I filled the bath tub with warm water and set all my palms that haven't had a good soak in over 2 weeks, in the water. 

 

This particular bathroom is very small. It was added on by the previous owners and with the door closed, there is no ventilation and no windows. After showers, I would stuff towels at the bottom of the door to keep as much humidity in as possible. But like you, it doesn't stay steamy and warm longer than a few hours. 

I haven't measured the humidity but I do have a few gauges that I bought from Walmart that I will set inside the bathroom tonight. I'm going to tromp every the palms from the bath tub in the morning...

[smithgn]

I meant to say I'm going to remove the palms from the bathroom in the morning. Sorry about that, lol im still getting use to typing on this phone lol

[smithgn]

So, humidity levels with the water filled tub proved a consistent 70% humidity number from the gauge I put near the tub. Outside the tub, the gauge showed 54%; still fairly high. So I think if you want consistent humidity levels then leave your bath tub a quarter to half full of water. Sounds a bit unhinged, but it seemed to work with this quick experiment. I took pictures of the gauges but I have no idea where I put them... Anyway, just food for thought!

[knell]

Taking pics of the gauges was wise, as its handy (if not necessary) to have temperature as a reference as well. Although its looking like humidity is not the issue, in my opinion. Please keep us updated!

[Kai]

Looks like some root problem to me...

[sashaeffer]

No expert here but I have A LOT of palms indoors year around but especially during the winter and while every species is different one thing I found to be a real killer of palms that spend most spring/summer/fall out doors is not to keep them to wet indoors. Have lost more palms that way.

It can be tricky since for most of us unless we repot every purchase with our own soil mix we have various soils and densities to work with as well.

I to have a Actinokentia Divaricata that is nice sized but hasn't missed a beat since bringing indoors but while it liked ample water outside, it doesn't get much at all now that it's inside.

I'm on a heat pump for heat which is a lot more forgiving when it comes to humidity but also only works when above 22f and like most of the country it's been much colder than that so the back up forced air furnace handles the load which means much drier air. I run 3 room humidifiers in rooms upstairs that have palms in them and 1 downstairs. It's a chore to keep them all filled and going(wife just shakes her head) and the super tropical I have reside on a wire shelf over the bathtub which has a few inches of water in it.

This year though I've come to realize there are some species that no matter what you do just aren't happy indoors and won't worry about fighting that fight and focus more on the many species that do just fine indoors all year around.

[Funkthulhu]

I agree with Shaeffer, some palms just can't be made happy if they switch environments half the year.

Obviously all our stuff has to come inside for 6 months a year, (windchill was only negative 25 yesterday!)  And every year I have something that browns off a couple leaves, from the tips down, just like your photos.  Sometime they lose several leaves, sometimes just the tips, but they seldom actually expire.  It seems to me that they get at least a little acclimated and don't brown as bad in subsequent years, but maybe that's just because the palms are bigger and healthier the next winter.  I monitor my soil moisture much more in the winter, because I am worried about fungus and rot more in the winter (that's when everything is weakest).  But I do try to spritz the leaves whenever I think of it, for whatever good that will do.  

Hope you get your humidity up and your specimens don't brown too much this winter!

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 12/19/2016, 9:41:51, Funkthulhu said:

I agree with Shaeffer, some palms just can't be made happy if they switch environments half the year.

Obviously all our stuff has to come inside for 6 months a year, (windchill was only negative 25 yesterday!)  And every year I have something that browns off a couple leaves, from the tips down, just like your photos.  Sometime they lose several leaves, sometimes just the tips, but they seldom actually expire.  It seems to me that they get at least a little acclimated and don't brown as bad in subsequent years, but maybe that's just because the palms are bigger and healthier the next winter.  I monitor my soil moisture much more in the winter, because I am worried about fungus and rot more in the winter (that's when everything is weakest).  But I do try to spritz the leaves whenever I think of it, for whatever good that will do.  

Hope you get your humidity up and your specimens don't brown too much this winter!

Agree with you both.   Me personally, I do as much as I can to keep the humidity as high as possible  Usually I strive for 60%, and I do achieve that when it is not bitter cold.  I try not to let it go below 40% when its bitter cold outside.  Sometimes though the humidifiers run out at night and I have to turn off the pot of hot water, and it falls into the low to mid 30s.  Still better than the 15-20% or lower that it CAN be in cold climates indoors.  So far not too much issue.  I believe it also depends on Species.  I know my Chamaedorea Cataractum definitely do not do well with less water, especially in winter.   I did not water them for 6 days once and one of them got very upset with me, and shriveled up about 8-10 older leaves.  Lesson learned I now water every 3-4 days and do it heavily.  The standing water in the bottom is usually gone within 12 hours or so.  I have also learned where the fronds are normally held, and if they are a bit blow that (sagging) I know its time to definitely water and that I am late with it.  Since I have learned its requirements it no longer browns leaves and has been doing very good.    So i also believe species and its water requirements are also a factor here. 

[smithgn]

On 12/16/2016, 4:55:06, Kai said:

Looks like some root problem to me...

I hope not... Although with this water soaking I've been doing, I'm afraid of root rot. 

On 12/17/2016, 7:39:19, sashaeffer said:

No expert here but I have A LOT of palms indoors year around but especially during the winter and while every species is different one thing I found to be a real killer of palms that spend most spring/summer/fall out doors is not to keep them to wet indoors. Have lost more palms that way.

It can be tricky since for most of us unless we repot every purchase with our own soil mix we have various soils and densities to work with as well.

I to have a Actinokentia Divaricata that is nice sized but hasn't missed a beat since bringing indoors but while it liked ample water outside, it doesn't get much at all now that it's inside.

I'm on a heat pump for heat which is a lot more forgiving when it comes to humidity but also only works when above 22f and like most of the country it's been much colder than that so the back up forced air furnace handles the load which means much drier air. I run 3 room humidifiers in rooms upstairs that have palms in them and 1 downstairs. It's a chore to keep them all filled and going(wife just shakes her head) and the super tropical I have reside on a wire shelf over the bathtub which has a few inches of water in it.

This year though I've come to realize there are some species that no matter what you do just aren't happy indoors and won't worry about fighting that fight and focus more on the many species that do just fine indoors all year around.

 

 

Scott, but you are the indoor palm expert! I will take your advice on keeping my palms wet. Although, does this mean soaking the root ball once a week or constantly spraying the fronds with water? Or both?

I have the worst type of heating for palms, central heating. It really does dry stuff out. The humidifier is a great idea. I had one going the other day and come to find out, it doesn't even work. So I may need to invest in a new one. Your stories with your palms and your wife are hilarious lol 

12 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Agree with you both.   Me personally, I do as much as I can to keep the humidity as high as possible  Usually I strive for 60%, and I do achieve that when it is not bitter cold.  I try not to let it go below 40% when its bitter cold outside.  Sometimes though the humidifiers run out at night and I have to turn off the pot of hot water, and it falls into the low to mid 30s.  Still better than the 15-20% or lower that it CAN be in cold climates indoors.  So far not too much issue.  I believe it also depends on Species.  I know my Chamaedorea Cataractum definitely do not do well with less water, especially in winter.   I did not water them for 6 days once and one of them got very upset with me, and shriveled up about 8-10 older leaves.  Lesson learned I now water every 3-4 days and do it heavily.  The standing water in the bottom is usually gone within 12 hours or so.  I have also learned where the fronds are normally held, and if they are a bit blow that (sagging) I know its time to definitely water and that I am late with it.  Since I have learned its requirements it no longer browns leaves and has been doing very good.    So i also believe species and its water requirements are also a factor here. 

I think species have a huge part in what tolerates what. Obviously, the more tropical, the more they'll hate the indoors. Oddly enough, I've found that my numerous seedling livistona decoras have done just fine indoors. One of my livistona nitidias has a slightly yellowing older leaf but other than that the cold hardy livistona types do well. After reading everyones input, I think my main problem is lack of water. I do know that if there's TOO much water, the leaves wilt and sag without browning first. 

[sashaeffer]

Scott, but you are the indoor palm expert! I will take your advice on keeping my palms wet

No....NOT too wet

[halocline]

Hi guys,

I'm new here, (Thanks for having me.) but you may be overlooking the most obvious. Is the plant in a direct line of heat flow, like right under, or over a heating vent? Humidifying your bathroom is a great way to raise the humidity, but IMO soaking your Palms in the tub is doing more bad than good. That's the same as having a soil that hold's too much perched water.

Again, IMO spraying your plants does nothing for increasing humidity, but it does increase the amount of dust that collects on the fronds. As to why steaming up the BR is good, and spraying not so much; is because plants take up water molecule by molecule (Water Vapor, not drops). A lot of people believe that letting your plant sit in a saucer full of water after watering is ok; because the plant will suck it up as if through a straw. This is not the case. That accumulation of water in the plant saucer is not taken up by the plant, but rather absorbed by the soil; becoming perched water, and perched water will cause root problems.

One last thing. When turning your BR into a steam room, after it's finished, open the door in small increments to let the room slowly acclimate to the atmosphere outside.

Thanks for reading,

H.