worst palms to plant in south florida

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

I have heard some palms dont do very well in south Florida or Sarasota area.  I know windmills wont work but i wouldn't plant one anyway.  anyone else know of palms not good for south Florida? I also have a friend in Inverness florida.  what kind of palms should he avoid.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Right off the bat I would say don't plant any Phoenix species, any Washingtonia or Queen Palms, not because they don't do well but because they are already overused.  And it would appear that God agrees with me because he has decided to grace us with an impending TPPD epidemic.

 

Mule palms and Butia never seem to thrive or achieve their beauty that they might display in Central Florida or Kalifornia.

 

Trachies, yep, don't bother.

 

Cyrtostachys renda, they tempt us all but if they are not the hybrid or in a green house, try to resist.

 

 

[hbernstein]

Phoenix reclinata - god's curse to  Florida horticulture,  any of the "mild climate genera - good luck trying Rhopalostylis and Ceroxylon, Johannesteijsmannia and Marojejya in the ground - stand back and watch them melt! Manicaria - fuggeddabowdit, Jubaea - hah!

[DoomsDave]

From what I've heard:

Rhopies, Ceroxylon, Jubaeas, Braheas

[GMann]

I have had difficulty with Archontophoenix, Ravanea Rivularis, Euterpe Oleracea, and Neoveitchia Storcki.

I think these all require a lot of water and my soil is sandy and perhaps it just drains too quickly.

Generally you don't see many Archontophoenix or Ravanea Rivularis in South Florida, whereas these are abundant farther north, could that be because they don't do well down here?

You also don't ever see Braheas or Trithrinax in South Florida, probably because it is too wet for them....

[hbernstein]

I meant Phoenix reclinata as something that you wouldn't want to plant, not something that won't survive. It survives too well!

[RedRabbit]

55 minutes ago, GMann said:

Generally you don't see many Archontophoenix or Ravanea Rivularis in South Florida, whereas these are abundant farther north, could that be because they don't do well down here?

I don't think there's a real difference with these palms between Central and South Florida apart from issues with the cold up here.

Archontophoenix are really abundant anywhere in Florida. I've lost most of mine to the Florida sun and they're not really tolerant of much wind either. There are some locally doing great, they just seem to struggle here when young.

R. rivularis are common up here, but most don't do too well. That said, you'll stumble upon a few that are real beauties.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by RedRabbit

[Sandy Loam]

I have heard that Howeas don't like it there, but I can't speak from experience.

GMann said no thrinax?  I see thrinax and cocothrinax everywhere in South Florida, presumably because they are native to the Florida Keys.

[Dave-Vero]

Here's a thriving Ravenea in a palmy yard between Melbourne and Vero Beach, Florida.  They like moist conditions, seem easy to grow.  There's several around the Vero Beach Art Museum.  Methinks they should be planted more.  I don't know whether they'd like Miami's limestone terrain.  

My Archontophoenix maxima is not quite flourishing but three A. tuckeri and one A. cunninghamiana are thriving.  

(Florida's a great place for cycads).  

[cfkingfish]

There are a disproportionate amount of R. rivularis growing well here in the Cape. 

Palms that don't do well here:

Too hot/wet for -

Highland Dypsis - decipiens, some baronii types, Hedyscepe, Lepdiorrachis, Juania, Jubaea, Parajubaea, Ceroxylon, Maxburretia, some Hawaiian Pritchardias, many Braheas 

Too cold for -

Cyrtostachys, Manicaria, Nephrosperma, Verschaffeltia, Phoenicophorium, some Areca spp.  

There's many more, but that's a start. 

[Dave-Vero]

I'd add that my Trachycarpus, as predicted a decade ago, has reached 6 feet and is fading.  

[Mandrew968]

8 hours ago, cfkingfish said:

There are a disproportionate amount of R. rivularis growing well here in the Cape. 

Palms that don't do well here:

Too hot/wet for -

Highland Dypsis - decipiens, some baronii types, Hedyscepe, Lepdiorrachis, Juania, Jubaea, Parajubaea, Ceroxylon, Maxburretia, some Hawaiian Pritchardias, many Braheas 

Too cold for -

Cyrtostachys, Manicaria, Nephrosperma, Verschaffeltia, Phoenicophorium, some Areca spp.  

There's many more, but that's a start. 

Yeah, just in case you come across these underlined names at a palm sale.. 

[Daryl]

I think soil PH might have a lot to do with it as well, especially as far as Archontophoenix are concerned. I only saw a couple of decent Archontophoenix when we were over for the IPS Biennial  a couple of years ago...and they were A.tuckeri. All of the others I saw were runty and not thriving as they should in that climate. 

Obviously cloud forest species are not going to thrive in a lowland climate, but I am surprised about Marojeyja ...it can be tricky with water, but is tolerant of a wide range of temperature and certainly doesn't mind high humidity. Then again...maybe soil is the key here?

 

Daryl

 

[Palmaceae]

 I have had great success in growing Archontophoenix here in SW Florida. The one pictured below is alexandrae.

 

[Jeff Searle]

Howea and Neoveitchia will definitely grow well here in our climate, providing the soil is decent, meaning not sand and rock and no irrigation. My friend in Davie has a big Howea in her yard and I have many Neoveitchias that are large and fruiting. But they have to have good, rich soil and water.

[Cindy Adair]

On December 16, 2016 at 12:08:53 AM, cfkingfish said:

There are a disproportionate amount of R. rivularis growing well here in the Cape. 

Palms that don't do well here:

Too hot/wet for -

Highland Dypsis - decipiens, some baronii types, Hedyscepe, Lepdiorrachis, Juania, Jubaea, Parajubaea, Ceroxylon, Maxburretia, some Hawaiian Pritchardias, many Braheas 

Too cold for -

Cyrtostachys, Manicaria, Nephrosperma, Verschaffeltia, Phoenicophorium, some Areca spp.  

There's many more, but that's a start. 

Interesting.

For western PR I agree with the "too hot/wet" list, although most I have not really tried.

The "too cold" list does not of course apply, as I grow all of these just fine in my 66-88 degree F (so far) climate.

[atlantisrising]

Now I'm all confused. Here in the Keys I have a Trachy wag growing well for now, a Crytostachys outgrowing it's space (but 5-10 degrees warmer than mainland here in cold fronts) and a Neovietcha in rock (with mulch and irrigation) that's growing like a weed. What I can't figure out is why my Chambeyronia hookeri keep dying. I know they should do well here but I'm missing something. That said, three underused species that for me have done spectacularly in SE FL rock with no amendments are Satakentia, Kentiopsis oliviformis, and Carpoxylon.

[Dave-Vero]

Key Largo has rainfall similar to Miami; Big Pine Key and Key West get about half as much rainfall, so need irrigation.  Kentiopsis oliviformis seems to like southeast Florida, all the way north to here.  Of course the Keys have a nice list of native palms.

[Scott Cohen]

Lemurophoenix Halleuxii, I only know one man (Tri, RIP) to ever successfully grow one in the ground. It was doing great for years and I believe about 10ft or more until hurricane Wilma. Close second wound be Marojeyja and Renda (unless you are in the lower keys.)

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

so the next question, If i ever move to florida what should i do with my windmill palm.  i dont really want to sell it.

[Cindy Adair]

Give it away with liberal visiting rights!

Trachs are nice, but compared to what you can grow in Florida, no contest!

[kinzyjr]

5 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

so the next question, If i ever move to florida what should i do with my windmill palm.  i dont really want to sell it.

Find some good friends in a marginal climate (VA, NC, DC, DE, NJ) and have them "put it on layaway" for you. :)

[HurryUp&Grow]

On 12/20/2016, 3:00:18, Scott Cohen said:

Lemurophoenix Halleuxii, I only know one man (Tri, RIP) to ever successfully grow one in the ground. It was doing great for years and I believe about 10ft or more until hurricane Wilma. Close second wound be Marojeyja and Renda (unless you are in the lower keys.)

2

 

Cyrtostachys renda? Toss my hat in there too. 

[sbpalms]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2016‎ ‎8‎:‎08‎:‎53‎, cfkingfish said:

There are a disproportionate amount of R. rivularis growing well here in the Cape. 

Palms that don't do well here:

Too hot/wet for -

Highland Dypsis - decipiens, some baronii types, Hedyscepe, Lepdiorrachis, Juania, Jubaea, Parajubaea, Ceroxylon, Maxburretia, some Hawaiian Pritchardias, many Braheas 

Too cold for -

Cyrtostachys, Manicaria, Nephrosperma, Verschaffeltia, Phoenicophorium, some Areca spp.  

There's many more, but that's a start. 

Don't forget Rhopalostylis!

[PalmTreeDude]

I hate when there are queens everywhere in South Florida, why not replace them with Royals? 

[Dave-Vero]

Queens grow much better in northern New Zealand.  But lots of other palms grow even better in NZ.  

My Kentiopsis oliviformis has gone from baby to mini beast this summer.  Maybe it'll start a trunk next summer?  

The TPPD epidemic has arrived in our town, so the Phoenix die-off should start soon.  P. reclinata is far and away the least desirable of the bunch.  

Replacing Queens with Royals isn't quite a straight trade.  Queens are a bit more hardy, so can hang on in Orlando or inland Melbourne where Royals would be too much at risk of freezing.   Royals also have those killer leaves.  

Unfortunately, many of the Copernicia species will never make it to the mass market.  My recollection is that this C. baileyana, now a solid 4 feet tall, was seriously expensive when much smaller.  

 

[cfkingfish]

Here are some other species that don't really look their best, and that I have avoided planting in FL. 

A. purpurea - they don't get fat like they do in cooler areas

Chamaedorea tuerckheimii "Silver Form" - too hot

Burretiokentia vieillardii - too hot? Hapala and dumasii seem ok, grandiflora unsure. 

Kentiopsis magnifica and pyriformis - too hot. K. oliviformis and piersoniorum do well. 

 

[sarasota alex]

On 12/14/2016, 9:15:43, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I have heard some palms dont do very well in south Florida or Sarasota area.  I know windmills wont work but i wouldn't plant one anyway.  anyone else know of palms not good for south Florida? I also have a friend in Inverness florida.  what kind of palms should he avoid.

I had Trachycarpus fortunei and Trachycarpus martianus "Nepal" thriving in my previous yard for years.

[sarasota alex]

On 12/14/2016, 12:36:38, RedRabbit said:

I don't think there's a real difference with these palms between Central and South Florida apart from issues with the cold up here.

 

 

Soil. Plenty of acidic soil here in the Sarasota area, but mostly alkaline in the Miami area. Plenty of rainforest spp. have thrived here for me that are notoriously hard to grow in So. Fl. Of many are subject to get killed by extreme overnight lows in the winter, the kind they don't get in So. Fl.

[sarasota alex]

On 12/15/2016, 9:45:47, Sandy Loam said:

I have heard that Howeas don't like it there, but I can't speak from experience.

GMann said no thrinax?  I see thrinax and cocothrinax everywhere in South Florida, presumably because they are native to the Florida Keys.

From what I've seen Howeas do well in shade (University of Miami campus has lots of them). As soon as they emerge into full sun, they get fried.

[sarasota alex]

On 12/15/2016, 10:37:36, Dave-Vero said:

Here's a thriving Ravenea in a palmy yard between Melbourne and Vero Beach, Florida.  They like moist conditions, seem easy to grow.  There's several around the Vero Beach Art Museum.  Methinks they should be planted more.  I don't know whether they'd like Miami's limestone terrain.  

My Archontophoenix maxima is not quite flourishing but three A. tuckeri and one A. cunninghamiana are thriving.  

(Florida's a great place for cycads).  

Agree with Dave. Lots of flowering Ravenea rivularis here in my neighborhood, some 25'-30' tall. Add A. myolensis - an excellent grower for me.

[Moose]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2016‎ ‎12‎:‎25‎:‎14‎, PalmTreeDude said:

I hate when there are queens everywhere in South Florida, why not replace them with Royals? 

Dilly, dilly

[sonoranfans]

On 12/31/2016, 12:37:08, sarasota alex said:

Soil. Plenty of acidic soil here in the Sarasota area, but mostly alkaline in the Miami area. Plenty of rainforest spp. have thrived here for me that are notoriously hard to grow in So. Fl. Of many are subject to get killed by extreme overnight lows in the winter, the kind they don't get in So. Fl.

Yes, a huge difference in soil between miami and sarasota.  the sandy soils have little or no cation exchange capacity and they drain rapidy.  Feeding a queen properly in that soil is going to be tough.  Same for C baileyana.  they like the alkaline rocky soil of miami better than sarasota area sand which is slightly acid. And since they are fertilizer pigs they are harder to grow in low cation exhange, high drainage soils.  You can grow baileys here in tampa area but mulching becomes an annual mandatory thing or the K deficiency will be difficult to control..  Sarasota soils are fine for archies as long as you add lots of organic matter to the sand, I have maxima, alexandre,,myolensis, purpurea in raised beds.  the purpureas are no good here, never seen a nice one and mine look terrible..  But the best archies are not grown here in sand or alkaline rock.  They look notably more robust in california and surely in their land austrailia.

[Dave-Vero]

I need to remember to put limestone gravel around the young Copernicia baileyana up above. It had to be propped up after Irma but had a great summer of pushing out new leaves.  

Not quite sure why--after one Archontophoenix cunninghamiana failed in the back yard--another is booming and should flower this year, and three A. tuckeri are happy as can be.  I should have a huge harvest of seeds.  Abundant laurel oak leaves may contribute.

My Kentiopsis oliviformis flopped over, got sick, and died after Irma.   The one I foisted on the neighbors across the street is looking great.  In the side yard, a hybrid Coccothrinax (miraguama x something).

Royals are doing really well around town.  A relative few survived the 1980s (one is visible from my house) but ones planted since are almost all growing automatically.  You don't see many unhealthy ones.  

[sonoranfans]

8 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

I need to remember to put limestone gravel around the young Copernicia baileyana up above. It had to be propped up after Irma but had a great summer of pushing out new leaves.  

Not quite sure why--after one Archontophoenix cunninghamiana failed in the back yard--another is booming and should flower this year, and three A. tuckeri are happy as can be.  I should have a huge harvest of seeds.  Abundant laurel oak leaves may contribute.

My Kentiopsis oliviformis flopped over, got sick, and died after Irma.   The one I foisted on the neighbors across the street is looking great.  In the side yard, a hybrid Coccothrinax (miraguama x something).

Royals are doing really well around town.  A relative few survived the 1980s (one is visible from my house) but ones planted since are almost all growing automatically.  You don't see many unhealthy ones.  

Good looking bailey, dave!  I haven't seen many blue baileys and that one looks happy.  I think when construction materials gets buried in a yard, it can be there many years.  Sometimes there can just be a bad spot.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

That majesty looks GREAT!

[Patrick Palms]

My Tuckeri looking a bit unwell. Not sure if wind, or sun burn, 

[Patrick Palms]

Any ideas, what I can do ?  maybe if not sun burn or wind, might be lacking something ?

[sarasota alex]

Is it getting enough water?