Coconut question

[enigma99]

So after losing a coconut in a pot last winter, I am going to give it a try again with a much larger one. Mine never got close to 32 but I think the soil was too wet and rotted away So this time I am going to keep it mostly sand.

Now I was thinking about what actually kills coconuts in most parts of California. Is it soil temperatures or core as well? If the soil was kept in the 60s and got plenty of light what are the chances of making it? I am going to try sand with a soil heater to keep the temperatures up. Keeping the growing point warm might be more difficult unless I wrap it. 

Thoughts?

Edited November 5, 2016 by enigma99

[Danilopez89]

Coconuts are so tricky when the weather cools down. I think its a good idea going with just sand though. Another idea would be to use a black plastic container so that the sun can really heat up the roots.

On my next coconut I am going to plant it in a big pot full of pure perlite. Hopefully I'll be able to keep watering it more ofter even during the cool months.

[Ben in Norcal]

Derrick, I assume you are talking about keeping this inside for the winter?  I will be doing the same with my smaller guys - have invested in a high-quality T5 set-up.

[enigma99]

19 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Derrick, I assume you are talking about keeping this inside for the winter?  I will be doing the same with my smaller guys - have invested in a high-quality T5 set-up.

Yeah I think so. I know drainage is one of the most important issues. Maybe that's why it does great out in the desert (besides the heat)

One idea is to dig a big hole on the southern side, and put in a lot of sand along with a nice soil heater and just leave it plugged in. Should promote drying in the soil as well as some extra heat. 

[RemiMontreal2015]

I can only give comment on indoor growing (Canada) but I have noticed that my coconuts need no water (almost) from décembre to March. I heat the roots with a Christmas light. Ans i also have a well draining soil. I have added charcoal to it. 3 years ago I was giving them "showers" (yes in the bath tub) and it could actually kill them. The water staying in the palm center where you see new shoots/spears coming Will not dry and then they rot : the end.... :/

Maybe if you get rain, you could add à little roof to your palm.

I hope it helps.

This is my current set uo (no Christmas light heater yet)

[Ben in Norcal]

11 minutes ago, enigma99 said:

Yeah I think so. I know drainage is one of the most important issues. Maybe that's why it does great out in the desert (besides the heat)

One idea is to dig a big hole on the southern side, and put in a lot of sand along with a nice soil heater and just leave it plugged in. Should promote drying in the soil as well as some extra heat. 

I think you are pissing in the wind, trying one outdoors up here.  I'm growing my out for one day in the future when I have a massive conservatory!  I can dream...

[enigma99]

14 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I think you are pissing in the wind, trying one outdoors up here.  I'm growing my out for one day in the future when I have a massive conservatory!  I can dream...

I am actually considering building a little green house around it which would keep it dry and give it some heat. With the root warmer cable too. Actually that's what I am going to try. 

I have thought about a conservatory but it will probably just be more cost effective to buy a house in Hawaii

Edited November 5, 2016 by enigma99

[Phoenikakias]

5 hours ago, Danilopez89 said:

Coconuts are so tricky when the weather cools down. I think its a good idea going with just sand though. Another idea would be to use a black plastic container so that the sun can really heat up the roots.

On my next coconut I am going to plant it in a big pot full of pure perlite. Hopefully I'll be able to keep watering it more ofter even during the cool months.

I suggest rather pumice.

[Danilopez89]

4 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

I suggest rather pumice.

What's the difference? Have you tried both?

[GottmitAlex]

I think "ideally" in Cali, if grown outdoors, to have the coconut in an exposed, elevated patch of pure sand. This is in order so the soil can warm up during the day and to have the best drainage possible. Yes, you have to water more often when it gets hot outside, but you mitigate the risk of getting root rot due to cold soil and/or water logging.

When I water the coconuts the surface water disappears in 30 seconds.

 I have mine planted on top of a 24ft. rock retaining wall.  Coconuts are in 3x3ft of pure sand.  Soil temps @ 10" (inches) never drop below 72F.

Temps rise when I go deeper. (soil thermometer is 20"). My main focus right now is what is above ground come winter. 

 

 

 

  

[Phoenikakias]

15 hours ago, Danilopez89 said:

What's the difference? Have you tried both?

Yep, it is like day and night! You can water pumice every day, multiple times a day and never have root suffocation, instead it remains always a sweet moisture in the deeper layers. Perlite on the other side becomes cloggy with to much water. Maybe in the desert evaporation is big and therefore perlite won't harm, but in more temperate areas it can cause disaster. 

[Danilopez89]

17 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Yep, it is like day and night! You can water pumice every day, multiple times a day and never have root suffocation, instead it remains always a sweet moisture in the deeper layers. Perlite on the other side becomes cloggy with to much water. Maybe in the desert evaporation is big and therefore perlite won't harm, but in more temperate areas it can cause disaster. 

Great! Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I want to do, water them twice a day every day. 

Do you think pumice will work better than sand...?

[Stelios]

I can only say about my experience with my coconut here in Cyprus. I haven't used pumice but my palm is planted in the ground in almost pure beach sand. It's draining very fast but even in the Summer when I check the soil under some depth there is a lot of moisture. Even though after a day of 35-40 celcius on the top it looks very dry, when I give it a lot of water deep down is moist for days. The good thing with sand in the winter the roots I believe they heat up very good.

[Danilopez89]

1 hour ago, Stelios said:

I can only say about my experience with my coconut here in Cyprus. I haven't used pumice but my palm is planted in the ground in almost pure beach sand. It's draining very fast but even in the Summer when I check the soil under some depth there is a lot of moisture. Even though after a day of 35-40 celcius on the top it looks very dry, when I give it a lot of water deep down is moist for days. The good thing with sand in the winter the roots I believe they heat up very good.

When I decide to plant mine in the ground I will use some sort of sand like you. And I will mound plant it for the extra drainage. 

[enigma99]

9 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Yep, it is like day and night! You can water pumice every day, multiple times a day and never have root suffocation, instead it remains always a sweet moisture in the deeper layers. Perlite on the other side becomes cloggy with to much water. Maybe in the desert evaporation is big and therefore perlite won't harm, but in more temperate areas it can cause disaster. 

Where is a good place to buy pumice?

[GottmitAlex]

1 minute ago, enigma99 said:

Where is a good place to buy pumice?

I suppose a local landscaping store. After reading through this thread I started looking online as well. 5-Gallon, 3-gallon jugs are $30+. Shipping is a killer.

In San Diego, I purchased lava rocks for my coconuts at RCP block and brick. Since the internet shipping costs are up the roof.

I'm going to give them a visit tomorrow and see about their pricing. Pumice sounds very promising for this region...

[enigma99]

I wonder if something like this would work? Crushed lava rock

 

OR

Edited November 7, 2016 by enigma99

[enigma99]

How do coconuts survive in solid sand or volcanic rock? Seems like they would need some nutrients. I guess that is what fertilizer is for...

[GottmitAlex]

I know in Hawaii, coconut palms thrive in lava rock.. That was my original intention of mixing pure sand with fine-crushed lava rock.  I did manage to crush a bit using my drill and mixing the sand a bit, but I know it is not enough. I did not do it because drainage. I did it because of the healthy "everlasting" mineral content in the lava rock.

Hawaiin pics (not mine)

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, enigma99 said:

I wonder if something like this would work? Crushed lava rock

 

OR

Derrick,

I think a dark lava sand (black or red) would be a good idea.  The next best thing for outside planting would be the crushed lava rock, maybe with some sand mixed in.  When I planted my Green Malayan Dwarf back in the first part of June, I put a bag of red lava sand around it along with the naturally sandy backfill from the hole that I dug to put it in.  A dark sand, like lava sand will help retain some soil heat in the winter time, which coconut palms grown in marginal areas really need.

John

[Stelios]

3 hours ago, enigma99 said:

How do coconuts survive in solid sand or volcanic rock? Seems like they would need some nutrients. I guess that is what fertilizer is for...

I use fertilizer 1-2 times a year. Now that the palm is bigger the roots are growing in the native soil which has more nutrients than the sand.

[Cluster]

I am impressed how they thrive in volcanic rock, otherwise volcanic sand is known to be very fertile, maybe the best for them. When you see coconut fruit size from the same variety they are always heavier in volcanic islands like Vanuatu, than inland areas of comparable climate.

[enigma99]

5 hours ago, Cluster said:

I am impressed how they thrive in volcanic rock, otherwise volcanic sand is known to be very fertile, maybe the best for them. When you see coconut fruit size from the same variety they are always heavier in volcanic islands like Vanuatu, than inland areas of comparable climate.

I think I might try 100% black volcanic sand. Thanks everyone:)

[Cluster]

You will be fine with black sand:)  

 

[enigma99]

Got my lava sand! This is really good stuff. Coconut going in this weekend  

 

[GottmitAlex]

Congratulations Enigma99!  

Be sure to update us. I foresee a bright future with your coconut palm.

[Matt in OC]

Looks like Rocklin is going to have low temps in the low 40's next week. Good luck! 

[Pando]

Keep your coconut completely DRY when the temps are low. If it rains, cover it up or you're screwed.

 

[GottmitAlex]

Looking at Weather underground figures for Rocklin (generic) Last year it dipped in December and this year in January.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KLHM/2015/12/1/CustomHistory.html?dayend=31&monthend=12&yearend=2015&req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

 

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KLHM/2016/1/1/CustomHistory.html?dayend=31&monthend=1&yearend=2016&req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

Where are you thinking about placing it? Along a fence/wall/house?

A heat lamp for those sporadic cold nights?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by GottmitAlex

[enigma99]

1 hour ago, Matt in OC said:

Looks like Rocklin is going to have low temps in the low 40's next week. Good luck! 

Yeah, first 40s of the winter. Been around 80 degrees so it is going to feel really cold. 

And a couple of nights in the low 40s in the 15 day forecast. I gotta get plastic around it to keep the rain off

[enigma99]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Looking at Weather underground figures for Rocklin (generic) Last year it dipped in December and this year in January.

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KLHM/2015/12/1/CustomHistory.html?dayend=31&monthend=12&yearend=2015&req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

 

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KLHM/2016/1/1/CustomHistory.html?dayend=31&monthend=1&yearend=2016&req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

Where are you thinking about placing it? Along a fence/wall/house?

A heat lamp for those sporadic cold nights?

 

 

 

 

 

I have it on a southern wall which is pretty warm. I am going to add heating cables to the lava soil, raise it up a bit from ground level, and build a greenhouse around it for extra heat and out of the rain. If we expect really cold weather, I am going to heat it on nights below 40. We'll see

 

Also that Wunderground is in Lincoln and it's pretty cold there. Still even though it gets down to around 30 or so for an extreme low each winter, so it's too cold for a coconut to be unprotected 

Edited November 11, 2016 by enigma99

[donalt]

On 11/5/2016, 11:51:40, RemiMontreal2015 said:

I can only give comment on indoor growing (Canada) but I have noticed that my coconuts need no water (almost) from décembre to March. I heat the roots with a Christmas light. Ans i also have a well draining soil. I have added charcoal to it. 3 years ago I was giving them "showers" (yes in the bath tub) and it could actually kill them. The water staying in the palm center where you see new shoots/spears coming Will not dry and then they rot : the end.... :/

Maybe if you get rain, you could add à little roof to your palm.

I hope it helps.

This is my current set uo (no Christmas light heater yet)

These coconuts look robust ! Congratulations ! In May, I took a fallen coconut from a tree in Martin County, Florida. I potted in potting soil and kept in direct sunlight. By late July it began to sprout and has been doing well since. However, now that the night temperatures have cooled below 70, growth is slowing. I bring the pot inside at night and return it outdoors in the morning. I'm hoping to keep it in an active state this way.

[RemiMontreal2015]

That sounds good. I believe the key when it is colder is to avoid too much humidity. I can do the indoor - outdoor commute every day only late spring and mid fall. I dont take too much chances because the weather can change quickly here!!

You have a picture of your seedling?

[GottmitAlex]

On 11/10/2016, 3:56:02, enigma99 said:

Got my lava sand! This is really good stuff. Coconut going in this weekend  

 

Pictures?

[enigma99]

Got it in and built a temporary greenhouse around it keep it dry and warm. Been in the 80s in there during the day 

Hope it makes it until Spring 

[Ben in Norcal]

2 minutes ago, enigma99 said:

Got it in and built a temporary greenhouse around it keep it dry and warm. Been in the 80s in there during the day 

Hope it makes it until Spring 

Madman.

[GottmitAlex]

[GottmitAlex]

What are the temp readings inside that awesome greenhaus?

 

Edited November 19, 2016 by GottmitAlex

[GottmitAlex]

On 11/18/2016, 8:08:15, enigma99 said:

Got it in and built a temporary greenhouse around it keep it dry and warm. Been in the 80s in there during the day 

Hope it makes it until Spring 

Enigma99, how is the Coconut doing?

 

[enigma99]

On 3/9/2017, 9:11:35, GottmitAlex said:

Enigma99, how is the Coconut doing?

 

Good actually considering I had a record cold winter. It was in a greenhouse for the first month but has been out in the weather since early January. Tried to have a plastic greenhouse around it but kept getting 60 mph wind storms. This southern wall was pretty hot today, probably around 90 degrees? 

It still has some green thankfully and a really healthy green spear. So I am hoping for a nice recovery this summer when it is 100 degrees daily.