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Fall in Florida


Palmaceae

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What a beautiful day in SW Florida! Temp near 80, dew points in the upper 40's, what more can you ask for. I was actually able to work all day in the garden without having to come in every 30 minutes to rest and cool off. Too bad it was not like this all year round! Was able to finally turn off the air and open the windows, first time since early spring.

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Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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This is what we've all been waiting for. :D

I think it only made it up to about 75 here. Hopefully it stays like this for awhile.

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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Yep, it was lovely. I hiked 2 miles at a very brisk pace and didn't even get sweaty! We left windows open last night--no need for AC :-) it's supposed to get down to the high 50s on the mainland, and I think the low to mid 60s here.

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I recorded 48.3f last night on my questionably accurate thermometer. LOL 

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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8 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I recorded 48.3f last night on my questionably accurate thermometer. LOL 

Wow! It's supposed to be 68 tonight over here, and I don't think we got below 65 last night. It's hard to believe you were in the 40s at approximately the same latitude.

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2 minutes ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

Wow! It's supposed to be 68 tonight over here, and I don't think we got below 65 last night. It's hard to believe you were in the 40s at approximately the same latitude.

While I question the thermometer's accuracy, it isn't that far off. Wunderground stations in my area were in 50-52f this morning... I assume the ocean is still pretty warm so that probably explains the 17f difference between our locals. Overall I'm sure Indialantic is quite a bit warmer than here, but in the dead of winter I think it will be closer to 7f than 17f. 

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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It is always a little perplexing how the weather works... Here's a map of Wunderground stations in east central Orlando:

10.23.2016.jpg.c0d33efb0b0c9aa08e787fc51

I added the low temps in from 4 stations in blue. Note that the further west you go on this map the more urban it is thus the warmer it should be. The station furthest west had a low of 58, the two in the middle were 52.x, then OEA on the right is 57f. Intuitively it doesn't make a lot of sense that the two stations in between would read that much colder. 

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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Low of 47.8˚ at my apartment in New Tampa last night and it felt like it! The low on Anna Maria Island was 68˚. 

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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2 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Low of 47.8˚ at my apartment in New Tampa last night and it felt like it! The low on Anna Maria Island was 68˚. 

That's an astonishing difference.

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It sure is nice having the windows open. Got a lot of work done this weekend in the garden.

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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9 minutes ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

That's an astonishing difference.

Yeah, the difference between the Island and mainland is clearly visible in winter temperatures and vegetation. AMI is also usually a little warmer than the islands further to the south as well because it sticks out so much more than they do.

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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2 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Low of 47.8˚ at my apartment in New Tampa last night and it felt like it! The low on Anna Maria Island was 68˚. 

There are clearly some nice coconuts on the island. It seems like there are fewer zone 10 plants around that would be expected. Is that because locals aren't inclined to go tropical with their plantings? https://www.google.com/maps/@27.5331116,-82.7340571,3a,75y,242.1h,109.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl3bxO2XTrqa2xEJ5PnbU-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A lot of our most tropical gardens here are the result of two forces: (1) yankees who pay a landscaper to make their winter home look like a tropical paradise (one of my neighbors and their backyard coconut palms fit this description); (2) South Florida natives who've moved up here and brought their tastes with them (another neighbor fits this description).

Northern California once had much more subtropical plantings, especially in the later 19th and early 20th centuries. At that time, the people who moved there were fleeing the intemperate climates of other states. Thus old NorCal homes invariably have orange trees, a redwood, a magnolia, an Australian pine (or something equivalent), a CIDP or Washingtonia (and, in many cases, a Chilean wine palm), and some bamboo. My mother's father and mother moved to CA in the 30s from Utah. First they lived in San Francisco (they actually walked the Golden Gate Bridge on its opening day), and then later settled in the Central Valley.

My grandfather's final house had oranges, grapefruit, loquat, pomegranate, eucalyptus, redwood, a big Washingtonia f., a CDIP, numerous plum and cherry varieties, bamboo, and a Monterey pine (still alive after more than 50 years, never happy there). He had been born in a log cabin in the Utah Rockies at over 6,000', and for him, NorCal was like Miami: he couldn't believe how many evergreen things he could grow. His children, however, have little interest in subtropical (or even unusual) plants. They have all basically tried to recreate the same boring deciduous-tree dominated landscapes that could be found from Chicago to Provo :-(

My hometown of Stockton includes many neighborhoods with a solid USDA 9b climate, but many of them look like they're in an 8a area if you go by what's being grown. I always wonder how different the vibe in Stockton, CA would be if all the streets were lined with Chilean wine palms, Australian pines, and (sensible) eucalyptus trees.

This intersection is, perhaps, the best example of "Old Stockton" (houses and older trees predate WWII) and "New Stockton" (the same houses and older plantings with much more temperate deciduous trees, all clearly younger than the massive CDIPs and Washingtonias, added later): https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9625886,-121.3128728,3a,75y,180.24h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf05sXnVRlMVXo5NDhc5TnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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2 hours ago, Zeeth said:

AMI is also usually a little warmer than the islands further to the south as well because it sticks out so much more than they do.

Are you sure about that? Longboat Key seems pretty warm to me just judging by what grows there.

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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10 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Are you sure about that? Longboat Key seems pretty warm to me just judging by what grows there.

All of the islands in the chain are 10b, but AMI is slightly warmer because of it's position so far out into the gulf. At that point the difference doesn't matter much, because the daytime highs in winter aren't enough to keep something like Areca catechu alive, despite them doing fine in 10b locations further south. 

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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3 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

There are clearly some nice coconuts on the island. It seems like there are fewer zone 10 plants around that would be expected. Is that because locals aren't inclined to go tropical with their plantings? https://www.google.com/maps/@27.5331116,-82.7340571,3a,75y,242.1h,109.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl3bxO2XTrqa2xEJ5PnbU-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A lot of our most tropical gardens here are the result of two forces: (1) yankees who pay a landscaper to make their winter home look like a tropical paradise (one of my neighbors and their backyard coconut palms fit this description); (2) South Florida natives who've moved up here and brought their tastes with them (another neighbor fits this description).

Northern California once had much more subtropical plantings, especially in the later 19th and early 20th centuries. At that time, the people who moved there were fleeing the intemperate climates of other states. Thus old NorCal homes invariably have orange trees, a redwood, a magnolia, an Australian pine (or something equivalent), a CIDP or Washingtonia (and, in many cases, a Chilean wine palm), and some bamboo. My mother's father and mother moved to CA in the 30s from Utah. First they lived in San Francisco (they actually walked the Golden Gate Bridge on its opening day), and then later settled in the Central Valley.

My grandfather's final house had oranges, grapefruit, loquat, pomegranate, eucalyptus, redwood, a big Washingtonia f., a CDIP, numerous plum and cherry varieties, bamboo, and a Monterey pine (still alive after more than 50 years, never happy there). He had been born in a log cabin in the Utah Rockies at over 6,000', and for him, NorCal was like Miami: he couldn't believe how many evergreen things he could grow. His children, however, have little interest in subtropical (or even unusual) plants. They have all basically tried to recreate the same boring deciduous-tree dominated landscapes that could be found from Chicago to Provo :-(

My hometown of Stockton includes many neighborhoods with a solid USDA 9b climate, but many of them look like they're in an 8a area if you go by what's being grown. I always wonder how different the vibe in Stockton, CA would be if all the streets were lined with Chilean wine palms, Australian pines, and (sensible) eucalyptus trees.

This intersection is, perhaps, the best example of "Old Stockton" (houses and older trees predate WWII) and "New Stockton" (the same houses and older plantings with much more temperate deciduous trees, all clearly younger than the massive CDIPs and Washingtonias, added later): https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9625886,-121.3128728,3a,75y,180.24h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf05sXnVRlMVXo5NDhc5TnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I think that google streetview doesn't always give the whole story, so if you ever get a chance to visit the island, you should. I've noticed that the plants grown on the islands here are similar to what's grown on the islands in Brevard south of Patrick AFB, but there are more old specimens here (1989 was colder over there than it was over here). Over here there are still Jamaican talls from the era before LY, but all of the new plantings are Malayans (which are less hardy) or Maypans. There aren't as many coconuts as Key West, but it's uncommon to walk along a street without at least one coconut in view.

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

All of the islands in the chain are 10b, but AMI is slightly warmer because of it's position so far out into the gulf. At that point the difference doesn't matter much, because the daytime highs in winter aren't enough to keep something like Areca catechu alive, despite them doing fine in 10b locations further south. 

Thanks Zeeth, that's some good info. Do you know at what point south Areca catechu become viable? 

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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I've seen large A. catechus at Naples Botanical, none much further north. They are barely marginal for me but live on borrowed time until the next "normal" 10a winter (30-35 lows).

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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19 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Thanks Zeeth, that's some good info. Do you know at what point south Areca catechu become viable? 

I have one that is about 11' tall, but it has only been in the ground for 2 1/2 years and is on the south side of the house (it is quicky out growing its protection). But has not seen any freezing temps. Picture below shows in behind a coconut palm. 

20161016_175708.jpg

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Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It has been extremely dry here. Not a drop of rain in over a month. Breezy and pleasant, sunny each day. I know its the dry season but....nothing has fallen. We got zero from Hurricane Matthew and has not rained since. Yikes! A drought I do see a comin....

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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Upper 40's forecasted for Sunday night here in SW Florida, a bit too early for that :mellow:

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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6 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

Upper 40's forecasted for Sunday night here in SW Florida, a bit too early for that :mellow:

Woah, I see. Looks like 45f is in the forecast here.

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2016‎ ‎1‎:‎27‎:‎55‎, Palmaceae said:

Upper 40's forecasted for Sunday night here in SW Florida, a bit too early for that :mellow:

Two winters ago, we had nearly a dozen nights in the 40's in November.  Last year we had no 40's during the entire month.  This month will be a cakewalk if we only drop below 50F once.  All of that said, I think we'll get a doozy of a freeze this year.  I can feel it. 

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Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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2 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

Two winters ago, we had nearly a dozen nights in the 40's in November.  Last year we had no 40's during the entire month.  This month will be a cakewalk if we only drop below 50F once.  All of that said, I think we'll get a doozy of a freeze this year.  I can feel it. 

Yep I do remember we had a chilly November in 2014. I am hoping for a freeze free winter, but as everyone knows one day it will hit us again.

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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On 10/23/2016, 3:54:58, Yunder Wækraus said:

There are clearly some nice coconuts on the island. It seems like there are fewer zone 10 plants around that would be expected. Is that because locals aren't inclined to go tropical with their plantings? https://www.google.com/maps/@27.5331116,-82.7340571,3a,75y,242.1h,109.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl3bxO2XTrqa2xEJ5PnbU-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A lot of our most tropical gardens here are the result of two forces: (1) yankees who pay a landscaper to make their winter home look like a tropical paradise (one of my neighbors and their backyard coconut palms fit this description); (2) South Florida natives who've moved up here and brought their tastes with them (another neighbor fits this description).

Northern California once had much more subtropical plantings, especially in the later 19th and early 20th centuries. At that time, the people who moved there were fleeing the intemperate climates of other states. Thus old NorCal homes invariably have orange trees, a redwood, a magnolia, an Australian pine (or something equivalent), a CIDP or Washingtonia (and, in many cases, a Chilean wine palm), and some bamboo. My mother's father and mother moved to CA in the 30s from Utah. First they lived in San Francisco (they actually walked the Golden Gate Bridge on its opening day), and then later settled in the Central Valley.

My grandfather's final house had oranges, grapefruit, loquat, pomegranate, eucalyptus, redwood, a big Washingtonia f., a CDIP, numerous plum and cherry varieties, bamboo, and a Monterey pine (still alive after more than 50 years, never happy there). He had been born in a log cabin in the Utah Rockies at over 6,000', and for him, NorCal was like Miami: he couldn't believe how many evergreen things he could grow. His children, however, have little interest in subtropical (or even unusual) plants. They have all basically tried to recreate the same boring deciduous-tree dominated landscapes that could be found from Chicago to Provo :-(

My hometown of Stockton includes many neighborhoods with a solid USDA 9b climate, but many of them look like they're in an 8a area if you go by what's being grown. I always wonder how different the vibe in Stockton, CA would be if all the streets were lined with Chilean wine palms, Australian pines, and (sensible) eucalyptus trees.

This intersection is, perhaps, the best example of "Old Stockton" (houses and older trees predate WWII) and "New Stockton" (the same houses and older plantings with much more temperate deciduous trees, all clearly younger than the massive CDIPs and Washingtonias, added later): https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9625886,-121.3128728,3a,75y,180.24h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf05sXnVRlMVXo5NDhc5TnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So many spot on points. So many parts of Norcal are solid 9B but have plantings like the North East. So weird. My Washington Navel at 15 ft are one of those old school plantings. And boy am I happy for it lol

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Mid 40's forecasted for SW Florida for Sunday night, brrrrr. Freeze watch in NW Florida Sunday night.

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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49, 42, and 44 are forecast for the next 3 days... We'll see what happens, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see below 40 on Monday morning.

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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Low tonight: 56F

Low Sun night: 46F

Low Mon night: 50F  Then nothing lower for the next 7 days (subject to change, of course)

I'm hoping my low will be a couple degrees higher because of the canal.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Actual low was 48.0 this morning, hoping to stay out of the 30s tonight. lol

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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I had a low of 53.9 last night, headed for the mid 40's tonight.

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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2 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

I had a low of 53.9 last night, headed for the mid 40's tonight.

That is not good...

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Low this a.m.: 49.5F (predicted -  46F)

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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41F the low at 630am. Never got above 63F as a seabreeze blew in this afternoon keeping the chill on. I am approximately a mile from the Gulf.

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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4 hours ago, gsytch said:

41F the low at 630am. Never got above 63F as a seabreeze blew in this afternoon keeping the chill on. I am approximately a mile from the Gulf.

Interesting you had 41f too. I remember you and I consistently had the same lows last year, will be interesting to see if that holds true this year as well.

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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42F this morning. I hope the seabreeze holds off so we can warm up! I dont play well in the yard when it is cold!

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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