A rare Chamaerops form

[Phoenikakias]

It grows tall and it is caespitose. Fronds have long petioles and a small, pleated, round blade. Texture is stiff like the leaves of Brahea armata. Petiole is is only half armed, meaning that spines are to be found only on the proximal half of the petiole. I was sondering whether it can be a cross the cultivar volcano with another trunking form. From a close distance it gives an exotic impression. 

[Phoenikakias]

A general look at the crown. The naked parts of the petioles is obvious.

[Neil C]

Great looking palm, and plenty of seeds to harvest as well.

 

Regards Neil

[Las Palmas Norte]

With so many forms of Chamaerops it's no wonder this one exists. Nice looking palm for sure. Did you collect some seed to try yourself?

Cheers, Barrie.  

[Alicehunter2000]

Konstantinos, your command of the English language is impressive; nice description. The Palm is cool too.

[Jamesasb]

That's a really nice form. did you get plenty of seeds? reminds me of brahea too

[Phoenikakias]

Yep, it is fully loaded but most of the fruits are empty of seeds or seeds are obviously faulty. Most interesting is that the few fruits which contain real seeds are clearly split in to two groups according to morphology. To the firstr group belong big fruits with large almost round seeds. To the seconds group belong small fruits with small elongated seeds. Whole matter needs more investigation.

[Pal Meir]

3 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Yep, it is fully loaded but most of the fruits are empty of seeds or seeds are obviously faulty. Most interesting is that the few fruits which contain real seeds are clearly split in to two groups according to morphology. To the firstr group belong big fruits with large almost round seeds. To the seconds group belong small fruits with small elongated seeds. Whole matter needs more investigation.

Sounds like it were a hybrid …?

[Phoenikakias]

1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

Sounds like it were a hybrid …?

I am glad that you share my original, tagged question.

[Pal Meir]

36 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

I am glad that you share my original, tagged question.

I think a cross with Ch vulcano would produce »normal« viable seeds; I meant a cross with another »genus« …

[Pal Meir]

PS: A cross with Ch humilis var vulcano would not be a hybrid, because it belongs to the same species Ch humilis. Otherwise Ch vulcano had to be a separate species.

[Jamesasb]

I always think of chamaerops as a bit like butia.

some forms are clearly very different but have no recognition. i mean there are trunkless forms and very tall forms, some blue,  some green some with big spines and some with almost none. Long petioles and short etc

To a non botanist the visual differences between the chamaerops forms are striking.almost like different breeds of dogs

[Phoenikakias]

17 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

I think a cross with Ch vulcano would produce »normal« viable seeds; I meant a cross with another »genus« …

Not so likely as the case of a polygamous behavior with many flowers being only female...

[Sanips]

20 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

I think a cross with Ch vulcano would produce »normal« viable seeds; I meant a cross with another »genus« …

So, is it possible to cross between genus of the subtribe Rhapidinae? Chamaerops x Trachycarpus?

[Neil C]

I think a Chamaerops x Trachycarpus cross would have been done already if this was possible. Many growers in Europe have both these palms in their gardens and I've never heard of this cross or even heard it mentioned before now. Nice thought though.

Regards Neil

[Phoenikakias]

Yep, the above is probably the main agument against the existence of such a hybrid. I would like also to add that a Trachycarpus, as a plant coming from most climates, does not have on its leaves the hard texture, Brahea armata use to have. And this plant has really an extraordinary hard texture contesting in this respect with amata. Also Trachycarpus has on petiole margins inconspicuous tiny teeth while the naked part on this particular plant is really smooth.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Phoenikakias

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Here are a few pictures of my completely spineless mature Med fan. This is the most unusual med fan that I have ever seen and I paid a premium for it. I have never seen another med fan anywhere like it in that it is very compact, spineless, and has heavy tomentum on the petioles.  I have a few smaller med fans that I have breed back to this one to create a spineless variety that is more conducive to put around pools. I'd describe the small ones as 95-99% spineless compared to this large one that is 100%.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Here is a picture of my volcano.  I have bred it with paper white silver med fans to try and get a silver med with a more upright habit.

[Jamesasb]

wow never saw a totally spineless chamaerops

[Las Palmas Norte]

Very cool brother ... that spineless Med is very unique.

Cheers, Barrie.

[Neil C]

I would say that your spineless Med fan is more likely to be the vulcano, it has the right leaf shape and is spineless like many vulcano are. The second palm pictured is not a vulcano IMO. The leaves are not flared enough and too deeply split. It also appears to have plenty of spines. It's still a lovely palm though. Below is what I would say is a "typical" vulcano. Your vulcano may have come from vulcano seed but they don't always come true from seed.

Regards Neil

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

21 minutes ago, Neil C said:

I would say that your spineless Med fan is more likely to be the vulcano, it has the right leaf shape and is spineless like many vulcano are. The second palm pictured is not a vulcano IMO. The leaves are not flared enough and too deeply split. It also appears to have plenty of spines. It's still a lovely palm though. Below is what I would say is a "typical" vulcano. Your vulcano may have come from vulcano seed but they don't always come true from seed.

Regards Neil

As soon as i put it back in full sun it will compact quite a bit as that area is shady. I have attached another picture to show the color difference of a silver med grown in that area compared to out in the open. You can immediately see the difference in color and habit.

[Phoenikakias]

3 hours ago, Neil C said:

I would say that your spineless Med fan is more likely to be the vulcano, it has the right leaf shape and is spineless like many vulcano are. The second palm pictured is not a vulcano IMO. The leaves are not flared enough and too deeply split. It also appears to have plenty of spines. It's still a lovely palm though. Below is what I would say is a "typical" vulcano. Your vulcano may have come from vulcano seed but they don't always come true from seed.

Regards Neil

There are also other dwarf forms. For example pictures from two such forms, courtesy of Trava.

Example  #1

Example #2

[willials]

It's amazing how much different these plants can look from each other. Mine has been in the ground for 3 years now...

[Neil C]

Your Chamaerops is exhibiting a fair amount of fusing of the leaves giving it an interesting shape. I like it!

Regards Neil

[willials]

Thanks Neil. I guess I never thought about that before, but you're right. Maybe the cool summers and wet winters causes that for C. Humilis here in Seattle.