Accession of Encephalartos and Merriliodendron at MBBG

[Mandrew968]

I planted this on Friday, September 16th, 2016. One of three Encephalartos laurentianus from plants grown at Montgomery Botanical Center.( 20140010 Hand pollination at MBC of female 96259*B with pollen from male 96259*A on April 11, 12 and 14, 2013 by Claudia Calonje and Vivian Jordan. Sow now. Viability: 85%. Seeds are cleaned.)

[Mandrew968]

I also planted this on Friday. Merriliodendron megacarpum from deaccessioned plants from Vizcaya. 2015-0133 NurseryB

[Mandrew968]

Planted yesterday: Encephalartos laurentianus from the original batch of three.

 

[5150cycad]

I wish I could grow  Encephalartos laurentianus. They are beautiful and throw out huge leaves similar to the whitelockii. I have tried a couple of them, but they would defoliate every winter so I dug them up. I was too impatient to see if they would adapt over time.They are one of the more sensitive green Encephalartos that I have grown. You chose a great spot to plant one of them next to the pond. It will be a real showstopper in years to come. 

[Tracy]

12 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

they would defoliate every winter so I dug them up. I was too impatient to see if they would adapt over time.

I'm guessing its the cold.  Downstream here on the coast, I have grown it without defoliating.  The biggest problem is that it will push a flush in the dead of winter which end up getting beat up.  I had to dig mine and transplant it due to moving a fence, but its trying to get the first flush post transplant out now.  It's a race against the cooling temps of Autumn to see how the flush turns out.

[5150cycad]

You hit

3 hours ago, Tracy said:

I'm guessing its the cold.  Downstream here on the coast, I have grown it without defoliating.  The biggest problem is that it will push a flush in the dead of winter which end up getting beat up.  I had to dig mine and transplant it due to moving a fence, but its trying to get the first flush post transplant out now.  It's a race against the cooling temps of Autumn to see how the flush turns out.

You hit nail on the head, they hate the cold. They also burn with direct inland sun.  In my experience with this species, they seem to grow year round and are faster than any Encephalartos I have ever grown. Good luck with the new flush. I think u wil be fine at the coast. If u were inland, I would be a little bit more worried. Its really a shame I can't grow this species. It's one of the more beautiful long leave green cycads. I have a 15"'whitelockii that used to burn (cold/heat) like crazy but has finally adapted to the inland heat/cold. It throws out 10-12' leaves. You can't really appreciate them till you see one in person. Every collector should at least have one

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Good luck with the new flush

It is getting close to flushing, I'm expecting it any day now.  As mentioned, the existing foliage was pushing when I had to move it in 2015.  We moved a fence, and it was right in the way of the new alignment.  This next flush will be the first since it has reestablished in the new spot.  The wall is right at 6' high.

[Mr Rare]

E. laurentianus coning for the first time.

[Mr Rare]

Well on its way!

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, Mr Rare said:

Well on its way!

I like the way that you have kept it trimmed, its very upright and doesn't take up too much space considering how long each leaf is.  And it looks better than good!

[5150cycad]

21 minutes ago, Tracy said:

I like the way that you have kept it trimmed, its very upright and doesn't take up too much space considering how long each leaf is.  And it looks better than good!

That is quite the specimen Jeff. Beautifully grown. That thing is enormous. 

Tracy, your looked pretty darn good considering it was moved. you should post another picture after the new flush. It is not to often that you see a specimen  the size of Jeff's in a private garden. It is always nice to see what your cycads will eventually turn into. You have a lot to look forward to Tracy. I now am really regretting selling mine a long time ago as it would have been pretty big by now, but nowhere near the size of the one in Jeff's garden. 

[Mandrew968]

Jeff, that's one of the best looking Cycads I have ever seen--impressive to say the least!

[Mandrew968]

This is a picture of maybe the mother... 

I find that this is not a cycad you see very often, for a few reasons. One is they are so large--not enough room for a big spikey thing like this for most people... two is they rarely ever look good. Prime example would be the pics below. I think this plant needs a lot more water than most people want to give a cycad, that and this guy doesn't seem to like our full sun exposure. Male plants can also cone themselves to death, from what I hear. I hope mine look as good as Jeff's and I hope to see that speed everyone is talking about with this species--thanks for the posts!

[5150cycad]

They are one of the few cycads that like a lot of water and can tolerate humid conditions. Jeff's is the nicest one I have ever seen. I think some of that has to do with the location. It looks like it is protected from sun and wind, which are two things this cycad does not like.  

Here is the habitat information that I found on-line.

E. laurentianus is found in closed, humid gallery forest along the river Kwango and on open red sandstone slopes above. The vegetation type in this area is Congolian forest-savanna mosaic.

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

On 10/15/2016, 8:07:30, Mr Rare said:

Well on its way!

NICE!!

[Tracy]

On 10/17/2016, 12:32:49, 5150cycad said:

They are one of the few cycads that like a lot of water and can tolerate humid conditions. Jeff's is the nicest one I have ever seen. I think some of that has to do with the location. It looks like it is protected from sun and wind, which are two things this cycad does not like.

Since mine normally flushed before transplanting twice a year, it often had one in the winter, which looked horrible due to wind.  It's new location has some wind protection, due to the wall.  That will end when flushes rise significantly above the wall.  It does appear I'm getting in this flush before winter sets in though!  Hooray!   It's also finally confirmation that it has survived the transplanting last year!

[Tracy]

On 10/17/2016, 4:11:52, Mandrew968 said:

One is they are so large--not enough room for a big spikey thing like this for most people

Unlike most of my cycads, I will probably remove the previous flush once the new one finishes pushing.  It will keep it more upright, take up less space and will look a little more formal.  I noticed how upright Jeff's beauty is and wonder if how many flushes he is leaving on it to keep it upright.  They retain that nice fuzzy look long into the new flush too, which I find very appealing!

[5150cycad]

 

7 hours ago, Tracy said:

Unlike most of my cycads, I will probably remove the previous flush once the new one finishes pushing.  It will keep it more upright, take up less space and will look a little more formal.  I noticed how upright Jeff's beauty is and wonder if how many flushes he is leaving on it to keep it upright.  They retain that nice fuzzy look long into the new flush too, which I find very appealing!

That new flush is looking perfect Tracy. I ended up replacing my Encephalartos Laurentianus  with an Encephalartos Whitelockii because the Whitelockii was able to tolerate the frost and wind a lot better and with a lot less damage than the Laurentianus. The Whitelockii are similar to Laurentianus in that they both have the very long upright leaves. I like to keep my Whitelockii trimmed pretty tight because otherwise, with the leaves being so long, they could  fall on and damage other plants in the area. At most I leave 2 flushes on at a time.  I usually end up cutting a leave off every so often until I am left with only the latest flush. For example, if a leaf breaks off at the caudex, or if some of the older leaves were burned in a frost, or if the leaves were damaged from wind, etc. These are two of the only Encephalartos species that I like with a tight trim appearance. Plus, they can be planted right next to a wall or fence and still look amazing. 

[George Sparkman]

13 hours ago, Tracy said:

Unlike most of my cycads, I will probably remove the previous flush once the new one finishes pushing.  It will keep it more upright, take up less space and will look a little more formal.  I noticed how upright Jeff's beauty is and wonder if how many flushes he is leaving on it to keep it upright.  They retain that nice fuzzy look long into the new flush too, which I find very appealing!

Nice flush Tracy !

[Tracy]

On 10/15/2016, 6:46:06, 5150cycad said:

Tracy, your looked pretty darn good considering it was moved. you should post another picture after the new flush. It is not to often that you see a specimen  the size of Jeff's in a private garden. It is always nice to see what your cycads will eventually turn into. You have a lot to look forward to Tracy. I now am really regretting selling mine a long time ago as it would have been pretty big by now, but nowhere near the size of the one in Jeff's garden.

Well the Encephalartos laurentianus finished flushing during our exceptionally rainy and windy period this January.  The winter flush was much slower to complete its "push" than a normal summer, spring or even autumn flush.  The top portion of the leaves show how the leaflets were beat up before fully opening and hardening off.  I guess I'm just one flush away from beauty again, assuming it flushes next summer again.  Patience will be rewarded!

[Palm Tree Jim]

So true......just one flush away from perfection!

Lets hope the next flush is in the spring/summer.

[Mandrew968]

You sure that's not a micros issue?

[Tracy]

On 2/16/2017, 3:56:10, Mandrew968 said:

You sure that's not a micros issue?

I saw the same thing on previous flushes that came late in autumn or winter, before I transplanted it to the back.  We had strong wind with pounding rain, followed by some cold nights when this was trying to open the last leaflets and still stretching.  I walked out some mornings to see parts of the soft leaflets on the ground which were literally torn off in the storms.  It's neighbors which flushed earlier and are much more protected from the wind, because they don't reach above the wall, look fine. One is a different Encephalartos (arenarius) and a Lepidiozamia "p" on the other side of it.

[Tracy]

On 2/14/2017, 10:41:53, Tracy said:

The winter flush was much slower to complete its "push" than a normal summer, spring or even autumn flush.  The top portion of the leaves show how the leaflets were beat up before fully opening and hardening off.  I guess I'm just one flush away from beauty again, assuming it flushes next summer again.  Patience will be rewarded!

Summer has arrived and the new flush is pushing much faster the one that started late last Autumn and finished in January.  Patience really can be rewarded.  My new flush has just about reached the elevation where the winter flush was beat up by rain and wind.

[Tracy]

On 2/14/2017, 10:41:53, Tracy said:

I guess I'm just one flush away from beauty again, assuming it flushes next summer again.  Patience will be rewarded!

Last February the flush looked as above.  6 months later, the same Encephalartos laurentiaunus flushing mid-summer and it looks a lot better!  Every other flush will look good at this point!  The leaves are starting to get long now too!

[Palm Tree Jim]

Oh yes......

[Tracy]

On 8/21/2017, 3:48:58, Tracy said:

Last February the flush looked as above.  6 months later, the same Encephalartos laurentiaunus flushing mid-summer and it looks a lot better!  Every other flush will look good at this point!  The leaves are starting to get long now too!

Yehaw... it skipped flushing in the winter so I'm going to get another nice looking summer flush!

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

@Mandrew968 how are the three in Miami doing? Any current pics to demonstrate the grow rate?

[Merlyn]

On 7/9/2018 at 3:39 PM, Tracy said:

Yehaw... it skipped flushing in the winter so I'm going to get another nice looking summer flush!

I'm curious about the temperatures where you've seen damage on mature leaves.  I have two in the ground from ChuckG, and one flushed starting in mid December.  2 of the 3 leaf flush were fine, the last had some distorted leaves due to a cold front around 33F with no frost.  They didn't brown or burn, they just "hardened up" kind of twisted up.  This one is planted about 6 feet from my house, and the distorted fronds are on the one facing away from the house.  So it could be radiant heat from the house that protected the other two fronds.  Or they could have been further along.

The reason I'm asking is that I am considering one in a less protected area, with no nearby radiant heat and no canopy.  I routinely hit 28-30F here, but rarely in the 25-27F range, and almost never below 25.  It's hard to find any actual temperature limits on Laurentianus.  Any ideas on minimums with "no damage" or "slight burn" or "heavy burn or defoliation?"

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I'm curious about the temperatures where you've seen damage on mature leaves.

The last two years, 2019 and thus far in 2020, my E laurentianus has flushed during the warmer parts of the year.  Actually in 2020 it is getting ready to push a flush but likely won't during this coming winter based on the current schedule of flushes.  I think it is more that during the winter cooler temps and shorter days increases the duration of time that the flush is opening and thus the amount of time the leaves are soft, pliable and more likely to become deformed or damaged from wind and rain.  The tops of the new flushes definitely showed most of the damage above the wall line, which could mean more exposure to cooler wind, but I think it was more the wind itself that did the damage above the wall. 

So perhaps mine is getting into a better flushing regimen now that it is larger and is putting more energy into each flush because they are so massive now.  Younger Encephalartos tend to push smaller flushes but more frequently in my garden while the frequency of flushes drops they are much bigger on the older plants.  I would encourage you to try another one in the more exposed spot.  I dug mine and transplanted it from it's original spot in the garden to it's current location and it did just fine (probably about a 5" caudex when I transplanted it).  So if you plant it and don't like how it performs, you can likely find another spot in the garden for it, more protected by some palms perhaps.  Let us know what you decide and post pics once you plant it.  These are quick to get big, so it's not like you have to start with something big to have a big plant in 5 years.  Good luck!

[Tracy]

Here is what "it" looks like today (Encephalartos laurentianus).  It hasn't coned yet, so I can't assign gender to it.  Just plan to give it space.  I will have to trim that lower flush off once the new one starts pushing or it will start dropping down and blocking the walkway.  Not surprisingly, my wife isn't a big fan of having to walk through cycads when walking on our walkways.

[Palm Tree Jim]

25 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Here is what "it" looks like today (Encephalartos laurentianus).  It hasn't coned yet, so I can't assign gender to it.  Just plan to give it space.  I will have to trim that lower flush off once the new one starts pushing or it will start dropping down and blocking the walkway.  Not surprisingly, my wife isn't a big fan of having to walk through cycads when walking on our walkways.

Very nice Tracy.

Guess I should add a picture of mine. Just like yours, it's getting ready to flush.

[Merlyn]

6 hours ago, Tracy said:

The last two years, 2019 and thus far in 2020, my E laurentianus has flushed during the warmer parts of the year.  Actually in 2020 it is getting ready to push a flush but likely won't during this coming winter based on the current schedule of flushes.  I think it is more that during the winter cooler temps and shorter days increases the duration of time that the flush is opening and thus the amount of time the leaves are soft, pliable and more likely to become deformed or damaged from wind and rain.  The tops of the new flushes definitely showed most of the damage above the wall line, which could mean more exposure to cooler wind, but I think it was more the wind itself that did the damage above the wall. 

So perhaps mine is getting into a better flushing regimen now that it is larger and is putting more energy into each flush because they are so massive now.  Younger Encephalartos tend to push smaller flushes but more frequently in my garden while the frequency of flushes drops they are much bigger on the older plants.  I would encourage you to try another one in the more exposed spot.  I dug mine and transplanted it from it's original spot in the garden to it's current location and it did just fine (probably about a 5" caudex when I transplanted it).  So if you plant it and don't like how it performs, you can likely find another spot in the garden for it, more protected by some palms perhaps.  Let us know what you decide and post pics once you plant it.  These are quick to get big, so it's not like you have to start with something big to have a big plant in 5 years.  Good luck!

As a rough estimate, did your "new flush damage" seem to happen at around the same temperatures as mine?  I am working on only 1 flush of experience with this species, and it was probably 33F that one night.

I noted your picture also shows some leaf burn on the older leaves that you think it probably wind damage during the flush.  Did it get any additional cold or wind damage later?  If so, any estimate of damage temperature? 

I had a flush around the same time with a Whitelockii, and there was no visible damage to it.  The only think I noted with the Whitelockii is that it flushed about 1 foot shorter than the previous summer's flush.  December 2019-January 2020 was a 2 leaf flush on the Whitelockii, and summer 2019 was a 3 leaf.  It's a fairly new planting too, so I'm not sure if the difference in # of leaves and length is due to the cold, lack of sun, lack of fertilizer, lack of water, or some combination.

[Tracy]

24 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

As a rough estimate, did your "new flush damage" seem to happen at around the same temperatures as mine?  I am working on only 1 flush of experience with this species, and it was probably 33F that one night.

I noted your picture also shows some leaf burn on the older leaves that you think it probably wind damage during the flush.  Did it get any additional cold or wind damage later?  If so, any estimate of damage temperature? 

I had a flush around the same time with a Whitelockii, and there was no visible damage to it.  The only think I noted with the Whitelockii is that it flushed about 1 foot shorter than the previous summer's flush.  December 2019-January 2020 was a 2 leaf flush on the Whitelockii, and summer 2019 was a 3 leaf.  It's a fairly new planting too, so I'm not sure if the difference in # of leaves and length is due to the cold, lack of sun, lack of fertilizer, lack of water, or some combination.

I actually don't recall any specific temps that did the damage in the winters of 2016 & 17, just the overall beating from cool as in 40's and 50's combined with 20 mph wind and rain that winter.  This winter we had one day that caused cold spotting on my Veitchia sprialis, and 1 of 3 Kentiopsis oliviformis (smallest that I have) as well as a new leaf opening on my Pritchardia hillebrandii.  While I had a thermometer read 30 degrees that morning, other things in the garden would be very dead if it actually hit 30 degrees throughout the garden.  Most of the current damage on the E laurentianus is on the older flush which is now close to 2 years old.  Wind takes it's toll as there are banana plants and a small tree adjacent on one side which whip into it. 

[Merlyn]

14 minutes ago, Tracy said:

I actually don't recall any specific temps that did the damage in the winters of 2016 & 17, just the overall beating from cool as in 40's and 50's combined with 20 mph wind and rain that winter.  This winter we had one day that caused cold spotting on my Veitchia sprialis, and 1 of 3 Kentiopsis oliviformis (smallest that I have) as well as a new leaf opening on my Pritchardia hillebrandii.  While I had a thermometer read 30 degrees that morning, other things in the garden would be very dead if it actually hit 30 degrees throughout the garden.  Most of the current damage on the E laurentianus is on the older flush which is now close to 2 years old.  Wind takes it's toll as there are banana plants and a small tree adjacent on one side which whip into it. 

Gotcha, thanks for the additional info! The 2 year old leaves with some brown on them makes perfect sense, I don't think there's a single cycad on my lot with 2 year old leaves that look pristine.  They get whipped around in storms, hit by branches, chewed on by bears, bent up by me mowing, etc.

I did some digging on Wunderground historical and the closest historical data is at McClellan-Palomar airport.  They show several nights at 40F at the end of December 2015, a night at 39F on 2/02/16, another at 40F on 12/18/16, several nights around 42F in late January 2017, and another 41F on 2/25/17.  January 1-4th 2019 looks bad with all 4 nights in the 39-42F range.  I think a few days later is when we got a blast of 1 hour of 25F here in FL.  If you are 5F or so colder than the airport then that kind of damage would make sense, especially while flushing.

[Tracy]

45 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

the closest historical data is at McClellan-Palomar airport.

Palomar Airport is about two miles east and a mile north of my Carlsbad garden and generally has higher highs and lower lows than my Carlsbad garden due to the moderating effects of being closer to the ocean there.  I'm another 3 miles south and closer to the water here in Leucadia so even more moderation from the marine influence than the Carlsbad garden.  The one exception is when we get winter Santa Ana's when I get cold wind blowing down the lagoon between Leucadia and Carlsbad.  If the wind stops early in the morning, it leaves the cold air here until the sun rises.  It is that last 2-3 hours normally between 4am and 7am before the sun warms things.  Ironically the only thing that suffered in the Carlsbad garden this winter was another Pritchardia hillebrandii which had new leaves opening and the tips fried.  Chamberyronia hookeri and Beccariophoenix fenestralis on either side of the Pritchardia in Carlsbad show zero damage.

[Palm Tree Jim]

Current pictures.

 

[Tracy]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:50 PM, Palm Tree Jim said:

Current pictures.

 

Looks great Jim!  If you keep these trimmed to just the current flush they actually don't take up that much space.  Once mine starts pushing the next flush out, which is imminent, I'll trim off the oldest flush which is really starting to spread out  now.