Remove existing palms to make room for another?

[Jdiaz31089]

I've been toying with this for the past several months: I have a very (very) small front yard, but like most palm people that I know, we like to pack things in pretty tight. I'm not entirely opposed to that idea, but from a design perspective, I'd like to keep the front of the house somewhat visible from the street. When I first removed the lawn, I planted two queen palms - one on either side of the front walkway. Now I'm somewhat regretting planting these queen palms because now I've fallen for beccariophoenix alfredii and I think those would look sooooo much better than the queens. I have 6 of those in 3-gallon containers now. I could plant two of those in that spot next spring. Heck! I've been oogling at the pictures you all post of other potential candidates for the spots where the two queens are: syagrus abreojos, schizophylla x romanzoffiana, butyagrus... etc. 

 

Any thoughts on what you'd do? To be honest, I'm hoping for your justification in taking out two beautiful and healthy queens! lol The two palms in question are on either side of the front walkway. This picture shows just 1 of them on the far left closest to the sidewalk. 

[Matt in OC]

Is that a baby Jacaranda on the right of the picture?

[Jdiaz31089]

17 minutes ago, Matt in OC said:

Is that a baby Jacaranda on the right of the picture?

Yeah, that's a jacaranda. They don't tend to grow as large here in the central valley as they do down south or perhaps they haven't been grown here long enough to have massive trees around town like you guys do south of the grapevine.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Jdiaz31089

[Zeeth]

I vote to replace the queens with the B. alfredii. 

 

B. alfredii pic I snapped at the Searle sale 2 years ago:

[Really full garden]

Visually you have a lot going on in your front yard. I would have just one statement palm and unite the rest of the yard in layers of smaller foliage, blooming plants etc..

 

 

[Jdiaz31089]

1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

 

I vote to replace the queens with the B. alfredii.

 

Zeeth, I like the way you think! They're such awesome looking palms. I will definitely feel bad cutting down the healthy queens, but in the long-run, I think the beccariophoenix will be a much better choice. 

 

1 hour ago, scottgt said:

Visually you have a lot going on in your front yard. I would have just one statement palm and unite the rest of the yard in layers of smaller foliage, blooming plants etc..

I know, but it's so hard to NOT plant "just one more" of something cool. The purple hopseed bushes are temporary. I'll be removing those once the jacaranda gets some height. They were just meant to give a little bit of vertical interest since the jacaranda was started from seed and the queens were really small. Once I remove the dodonaea, it should open up the view of the house. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Be aware that Beccariophoenix alfredii get very large. Don't plant one too close to your walk. You may have room for only one of them if your yard is as small as it appears in your photo.

[Hammer]

If you want to go with the Beccariophoenix theme.  Try a B. madagascariensis.  Better looking, very hardy and slower growing than the alfredii.   Will help keep your place from being too crowded too fast. 

Here is a picture I took of one at Len's place in Vista. 

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

Life is short, grow the beccariophoenix.

[Alicehunter2000]

Beccariophoenix all day long....yep

[Flounder]

I find it hard to get my head around the dig up and replace philosophy, total sacrilege if you ask me. Ok, I don't have the luxury of being able to grow these sort of palms without moving to a warmer climate but I vote as well as, rather than replace.

Then again, it's your garden and I'm sure you've pictured it in your head a thousand times what would look best  

[Alicehunter2000]

Looks like the queen is small enough to move to a neighbors or friends house.

[TikiRick]

Here's the plan. Dig up the two queens. Pot them up in large containers, for shade, make them mobile. Replace with beccariophoneix, but only one, off set. I'm not a big fan of forcing tropical plants into a formal look ( i.e., one on each side). 

Let that palm be your anchor. Use the queens around your patio until they out grow the container or you decide where they should go.

Done! 

[enigma99]

+1 B. Alfredii. I really regret not buying more years ago. They would all be a decent size by now.

[Kim]

Follow TikiRick's advice.  If you keep the queens, you will definitely live to regret it.  They are so fast, pretty soon all you will see from inside your house is a couple of telephone poles.  Not good design.

Most people greatly underestimate the eventual size of their palms.  Give your replacement palm twice the space you think it needs. No, make that three times the space...

[Dave-Vero]

Queens are maintenance problems, tending to hold leaves.  A Silky 20-foot pole saw will run you around $300.  I don't know what works well in Fresno, so won't comment on replacements.  

[rprimbs]

19 hours ago, TikiRick said:

Here's the plan. Dig up the two queens. Pot them up in large containers, for shade, make them mobile. Replace with beccariophoneix, but only one, off set. I'm not a big fan of forcing tropical plants into a formal look ( i.e., one on each side). 

Let that palm be your anchor. Use the queens around your patio until they out grow the container or you decide where they should go.

Done! 

I agree, that's a great idea for a way to maximize minimum space!

[Jdiaz31089]

Sounds like Beccariophoenix it is! Thank you all for the input. 

On 9/16/2016, 6:19:26, PalmatierMeg said:

Be aware that Beccariophoenix alfredii get very large. Don't plant one too close to your walk. You may have room for only one of them if your yard is as small as it appears in your photo.

     - The left side of the yard, the side that is out of the photo, is probably twice the size of what you see in the picture. You are right though. I may only have space for one. I'll let the jacaranda dominate and shade the whole right side, and use a beccariophoenix on the left. 

On 9/16/2016, 11:08:46, Hammer said:

If you want to go with the Beccariophoenix theme.  Try a B. madagascariensis.  Better looking, very hardy and slower growing than the alfredii.   Will help keep your place from being too crowded too fast. 

Here is a picture I took of one at Len's place in Vista. 

     - Everything I read about these said that they are touchier than alfredii. My primary concern is frost in winter which could set back a touchy palm quite a bit if it's too tender. 

On 9/17/2016, 9:52:52, Flounder said:

I find it hard to get my head around the dig up and replace philosophy, total sacrilege if you ask me. Ok, I don't have the luxury of being able to grow these sort of palms without moving to a warmer climate but I vote as well as, rather than replace.

Then again, it's your garden and I'm sure you've pictured it in your head a thousand times what would look best  

     - I was very torn as well! Which is why I took so long to come to that decision. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out to the middle of the street to stare at my front yard. Then take a few steps down the street to look at it from another angle, then another and another. The placement of these queens was poorly planned from the beginning. I'd rather take them out while I can do it with a shovel. In a few years I would need a chainsaw. 

On 9/17/2016, 12:08:59, Alicehunter2000 said:

Looks like the queen is small enough to move to a neighbors or friends house.

     - I've offered them to my neighbor down the street! lol I'm going to fill the entire neighborhood with palms!

On 9/17/2016, 12:19:13, TikiRick said:

Here's the plan. Dig up the two queens. Pot them up in large containers, for shade, make them mobile. Replace with beccariophoneix, but only one, off set. I'm not a big fan of forcing tropical plants into a formal look ( i.e., one on each side). 

Let that palm be your anchor. Use the queens around your patio until they out grow the container or you decide where they should go.

Done! 

   - Thanks for the suggestion. The beccariophoenix will go on the left side, off center. The queens might go to a neighbor, or perhaps into a large put I have out back that's sitting empty right now. 

On 9/17/2016, 3:06:12, Kim said:

Most people greatly underestimate the eventual size of their palms. 

     -  STORY OF MY LIFE!

[Zeeth]

42 minutes ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

I'll let the jacaranda dominate and shade the whole right side, and use a beccariophoenix on the left. 

Sounds like a good plan!

[The Palm Nut]

On ‎17‎/‎09‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎20‎:‎21‎, Jdiaz31089 said:

I've been toying with this for the past several months: I have a very (very) small front yard, but like most palm people that I know, we like to pack things in pretty tight. I'm not entirely opposed to that idea, but from a design perspective, I'd like to keep the front of the house somewhat visible from the street. When I first removed the lawn, I planted two queen palms - one on either side of the front walkway. Now I'm somewhat regretting planting these queen palms because now I've fallen for beccariophoenix alfredii and I think those would look sooooo much better than the queens. I have 6 of those in 3-gallon containers now. I could plant two of those in that spot next spring. Heck! I've been oogling at the pictures you all post of other potential candidates for the spots where the two queens are: syagrus abreojos, schizophylla x romanzoffiana, butyagrus... etc. 

 

Any thoughts on what you'd do? To be honest, I'm hoping for your justification in taking out two beautiful and healthy queens! lol The two palms in question are on either side of the front walkway. This picture shows just 1 of them on the far left closest to the sidewalk. 

Hi

That Jacaranda from my experience will eventually take over the front yard and provide lots of shade in summer and drop all its leaves in winter, it's also to close to the driveway. Not sure if that is what you want over the long term. Beccariophoenix if planted in the middle of the yard, its leaves will in 10 years dominate the yard. It will be the main feature of your garden. As the garden is quite small I would plant species that fill in the space till such time the Beccariophoenix becomes the dominate one. Who knows you might decide that grass with the palm in the middle is the way to go by then. This palm is one of my favourites and will look great in your front yard.

Mike

[Palm Tree Jim]

On September 17, 2016 at 1:22:26 AM, Cocoa Beach Jason said:

Life is short, grow the beccariophoenix.

What he said!

[Matt in OC]

Not to belabor the point, but that jacaranda is going to mess up your driveway. 

[Tracy]

6 minutes ago, Matt in OC said:

Not to belabor the point, but that jacaranda is going to mess up your driveway. 

I have grown flowering trees in past yards near patios, and would have to agree that you should consider the number of flowers that will drop. In particular if you ever use that portion of the driveway to park a vehicle, it would mean a mess on your car even when parked there briefly during flowering season.   If you understand that and are ok with it, then leave it, but definitely factor that into your thinking.  Relative to pulling the queens I'm a bit on that!  My current home had over 50 queens, 75 giant bird of paradise clumpings and at least a dozen clumps of pygmy dates.  All the queens, all the giant birds are gone, and I have 3 pygmy dates remaining after 6 years and the pygmy dates are on "leased space" for a short time longer as other things fill in.  I'm much happier now with the species variety I have then if I had left what the previous owner planted, so I can say from experience you will be happier making the change now.  Some of my queens had 10 to 12 feet of ringed trunk, so while not huge they also weren't easy to remove.  Do it sooner rather than later.

[Matt in OC]

In addition to the flowers, you'll want to consider the surface roots, which will be considerable.

[Hammer]

2 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

  - Everything I read about these said that they are touchier than alfredii. My primary concern is frost in winter which could set back a touchy palm quite a bit if it's too tender. 

There is a LOT of confusion on the interwebs about B. madagascariensis.   The old madagascariensis is now Beccariophoenix fenestralis also known as the "windows" form.  Fenestralis is NOT hardy for the most part in California. 

The true Beccariophoenix  madagascariensis is what used to be referred to as Beccariophoenix  sp. "no windows".

The palm in the photo at Len's is the true Beccariophoenix madagascariensis. It is a very hardy palm that does well in California. 

[Jdiaz31089]

On 9/16/2016, 2:31:44, Matt in OC said:

Is that a baby Jacaranda on the right of the picture?

Well, i did it! i took the advise of a lot of you and removed the jacaranda today. I did find a new owner for it though, so that helped me feel better about digging it out. It started raining pretty hard as i was out there so i apologize for the poor quality pictures. 

 

[Jdiaz31089]

[Jdiaz31089]

Digging a hole this size was pretty quick and easy. We have the prefect sandy loam and the recent rain made i really soft. Can you guess what went into the jacaranda's place? I'll give you a hint, it's in the background patiently waiting 

 

 

[Jdiaz31089]

If you guessed jubaeopsis caffra you were absolutely correct! This baby has been patiently waiting to go in the ground all winter long. We're expecting a steady lineup of sunny, 70 degree days coming up so i thought now would be a good a time as any to get this puppy in the ground. 

[sur4z]

What about the queens? Chop their heads off?

[Jdiaz31089]

Free from its container! Stretching it's toes into the soil. 

(pardon the weeds, with all the rain it's hard to muster up the willpower to get out and clean)

 

[Jdiaz31089]

1 minute ago, sur4z said:

What about the queens? Chop their heads off?

They're up next, but i have to find an executioner. Or just convince myself it'll be ok. 

[Jdiaz31089]

There, much better. Full sun exposure, raised about a foot above grade. 

[Brad Mondel]

Looks better. I'd still rip the queens out and give them away, ultra cliche palm in California and grows super fast while dropping tons of fruit all over the place. 

 

[Ben in Norcal]

Nice Jubaeopsis!

[DoomsDave]

pant pant pant

[Palm Tree Jim]

5 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

If you guessed jubaeopsis caffra you were absolutely correct! This baby has been patiently waiting to go in the ground all winter long. We're expecting a steady lineup of sunny, 70 degree days coming up so i thought now would be a good a time as any to get this puppy in the ground. 

Great choice!

Keep us updated on the progress.

[Tomw]

I would agree with all the other post and remove the queen. For those of us that are somewhat limited for room, remove and replace becomes a more frequent event as your collecting continues. Almost like your garden is always in transition. Some trees I leave in the ground just to provide shade until the new tree/trees are big enough and acclimated to the sun (slowly removing more and more fronds from the tree that will be removed). This is all the evolution of palm collectors and it’s OK.  

[Jdiaz31089]

Well I did it under cover of dark yesterday before the rains came. I took the queens out. The ground was really soft so the palms came out easily and with plenty of roots. I had resolved to give them away - boss lady said we had to keep them, so we compromised. And we kept them . I moved them further back and "anchored" the front of the house with one on either side of the porch. I snapped a picture this morning before I left for work while it was still pretty dark out. The picture was really dark but I lightened it up a bit. I'll try to get a better picture later. 

 

The green arrows are where the syagrus rommanzoffiana are now.

The blue circle on the right is jubaeopsis caffra

The yellow circles are dypsis decipiens

The pink arrow pointing left is where I have a strap-leaf butia x parajubaea sunkha outside of the frame of the picture.

I might still add a smaller, less-imposing palm up front  on either side of the walkway. I have dypsis baronii and brahea pimo that I can use. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Jdiaz31089]

Here are some better pictures