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Where is the Phoenix canariensis most northern(ly) found in the USA? I saw some in Charleston, S.C. and that is as far north (on the east coast) I have evern seen them, what about the west coast? And has anyone ever seen one more north than Charleston on the east coast? I have been wondering where these things start to come up. 

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PalmTreeDude

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The furthest north on the west coast is around Brookings, Oregon. On the east coast I thought I saw a thread that showed them in the Myrtle Beach area. As I recall they were hard hit by a cold winter and took a beating, so they may not be viable in the long term there.

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North Myrtle beach, S.C:

http://www.garysnursery.com/Phoenix.html

When I used to live in Murrells Inlet I would  occasionally drive by and visit those. 

Here's one near Garden city beach that I use to jog by: image.thumb.png.78b926f1ed636c7e1d9fe3c9

Pheonix canarienensis burn back in the winter and struggle in the long term in these locations (zone 8b). I'd say the safest place on the east coast for Canary Island date palms would be Charleston (zone 9a). Theres a few monster specimens  there. 

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Los Angeles, CA and Myrtle Beach, SC.

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Alright. Here is one at Hilton Head Island, S.C. That I heard does great.

image.png

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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They can be grown in the Brookings area in Southern Coastal Oregon.  I even saw citrus there and an Avocado tree.

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  • 2 months later...

Not the USA, but I saw one in London, UK.

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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On 7/29/2016, 10:12:45, PalmTreeDude said:

Where is the Phoenix canariensis most northern(ly) found in the USA? I saw some in Charleston, S.C. and that is as far north (on the east coast) I have evern seen them, what about the west coast? And has anyone ever seen one more north than Charleston on the east coast? I have been wondering where these things start to come up. 

ive seen some in southern north carolina

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The largest one I know of in NC, is in Southport at a former garden center.  I have seen it here since 2007 (also as far back as the street view goes).  I would guess it was planted there as a larger specimen.  It does look crappy after a really cold winter, but will pull through and have a decent canopy by the end of the summer.  The garden center is out of business now so who knows what will happen to it.  There seems to be a recent wave of dislike for landscape palms here unless they are at beach homes.     

google maps CIDP Southport NC

There are several yet to be trunking CIDPs in commercial landscaping here in SE NC.  One was in a hooters parking lot, that I think would have become a monster.  It did suffer some winter damage but survived.  it was removed (last year?) when it started to swallow up a couple parking spaces.

Also, there are some not yet trunked individuals planted at houses along the waterway that have been there for several years and seem to keep pulling out of the winter damage.  

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I would think they would do alright in extreme south eastern N.C. But I wouldn't plant one their because I would not consider it long term. They are a zone 8b palm overall. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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12 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Not the USA, but I saw one in London, UK.

They will do great in coastal South eastern and western U.S. 

PalmTreeDude

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  • 8 months later...

I found very nice ones in French Britain.  Same climate than southern UK.  I took seeds from them and they are coming out very well here in Congo, africa. Adaptability seems to be good...

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On 10/19/2016, 4:13:03, Tyrone said:

Not the USA, but I saw one in London, UK.

I've seen the pictures, some on Palm Talk.

Bet they'll grow in Northern Ireland and that place in Norway where you can grow aloes 100 miles south of the Arctic Circle.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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The best looking cidps in the country are in southern California all the way up to Sacramento IMO.

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  • 1 year later...

Reliably (East Coast) - Myrtle Beach, SC. Does anyone know there are CIDP in Charleston, SC that are very different than a regular Canary and it was grown from a 80 year old mother tree in Charleston, South Carolina. I call it CIDP-Carlopolis. They have much softer and darker fronds and are not as piercing sharp, and more glossy fronds. Strangely they seem to be more cold tolerant. I would like to get their seeds if anyone from Charleston area can offer.

Edited by SoulofthePlace
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Average day temperatures: +17°C in the winter and +24°C in the summer. Typical Summer: 68F to 77F (20C to 25C). Typical Winter: 55F to 64F (12C to 18C). Record Low (past 5 years): 45F or +7.7C (once a winter, some winters). Record High (past 5 years): 83F or +28C (some days only). Elevation 140 m (459 ft.) to 160 m (525 ft.), latitude 38.54º. Sunset Zone: unknown

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There are a few here in Wilmington, NC.  They generally get killed, but some have survived for a long time.  For example, there is one at the Checker's in Wilmington that survived a week of lows between 10-12 degrees this last January.  There are a handful here and there at beaches (I know of one at Kure Beach and a couple at Holden Beach and Ocean Isle Beach).  They're a rare sight, though.

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Some of the best specimens I have seen(big crowns and fat trunks) were in the SF bay area, definitely better than the florida ones.  Here is one in berkeley CA.

CIDPBerkeley.PNG

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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just to add heres some in brunswick georgia these must be 100 years old

NOT MY PICS

 

 

37554951_1038871892937674_1640942549503836160_n.jpg

37414766_1038872156270981_398807642081853440_n.jpg

37378028_1038872022937661_8868485825558478848_n.jpg

37679215_1043392935818903_6144103420195241984_n.jpg

37655374_1043393955818801_6462748499879395328_n.jpg

37728325_1043392585818938_2230217212180824064_n.jpg

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Heres a survivor from last winter in north carolina atlantic beach.  also not my pic

37597967_10155528453832483_570610092018237440_n.jpg

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the same palm before the winter

26196292_10155097061167483_1638011274184

another CIDP before and after the winter at the same beach

26195985_10155097060257483_3399426668612

after

27459545_10155145398342483_7937570063087

more carnage plus some washies27073266_10155145379347483_6979594837870

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I have a theory that 100% pure Phoenix canariensis is more cold hardy that many of the "mutts" sold as P. canariensis. Can anyone verify this?  I wonder if that accounts for the above pictures in Georgia where old specimens (that probably came from more pure sources in the early 1900's or before) apparently survived the recent very cold winter (upper teens?) with hardly any leaf damage. With upper teens in NW FL most P. canariensis I observed (which appeared to not be the pure species) had terrible damage with some even close to death.

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Well CIDP is not the most cold hardy phoenix. Some species are more cold hardy. CIDP is better (than some) in wet + cold conditions. While some other species are better in dry + cold. Hybrids can be more cold hardy than pure CIDP. Moderate frost will burn pure CIDP. 

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20 minutes ago, Opal92 said:

I have a theory that 100% pure Phoenix canariensis is more cold hardy that many of the "mutts" sold as P. canariensis. Can anyone verify this?  I wonder if that accounts for the above pictures in Georgia where old specimens (that probably came from more pure sources in the early 1900's or before) apparently survived the recent very cold winter (upper teens?) with hardly any leaf damage. With upper teens in NW FL most P. canariensis I observed (which appeared to not be the pure species) had terrible damage with some even close to death.

that could be true.  also coastal georgia is overall warmer then the panhandle. queens survived in georgia and there are some that have been there for 10-20 years. even charleston sc is technically a zone 9a while parts of the panhandle are 8b.   

heres 3 pics from SSI georgia of queens, everglades palm and some kind of livistonia.

37282165_1036401219851408_1339200652915537423058_1038465722978291_37771158263315

 

37323258_1037736139717916_30386336991438

a charelston CIDP that faired well after 2017

35168704_10155436601172483_6058813452825

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2 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

just to add heres some in brunswick georgia these must be 100 years old

NOT MY PICS

 

 

37554951_1038871892937674_1640942549503836160_n.jpg

37414766_1038872156270981_398807642081853440_n.jpg

37378028_1038872022937661_8868485825558478848_n.jpg

37679215_1043392935818903_6144103420195241984_n.jpg

37655374_1043393955818801_6462748499879395328_n.jpg

37728325_1043392585818938_2230217212180824064_n.jpg

Those look awesome! I have seen some that look as healthy as those but just not as tall on Hilton Head Island S.C. Also last time I was at Hilton Head they seemed to be planted at every street corner. 

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PalmTreeDude

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On the east coast, the northernmost CIDPs have to at least be on Hatteras Island. When I was there last December I remember seeing a bunch. 

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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I may have found your answer for long term survival.  while charelston seems to have the largest and oldest CIDP in the state, it seems there are a few old ones even north of that. This CIDP is in Myrtle beach South carolina and seems to be the oldest in the area and probably horry and georgetown county.  this picture was taken in 2016.  take a gander at the glory of the northernmost long term CIDP.

12036469_10153526989657483_8174664496135

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I lived there for 8 years and I've never seen it. Where is it located? 

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Los Angeles, CA and Myrtle Beach, SC.

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  • 2 months later...
On 7/29/2018, 9:56:07, NC_Palms said:

On the east coast, the northernmost CIDPs have to at least be on Hatteras Island. When I was there last December I remember seeing a bunch. 

I have found 1 in hatteras that seems to be quite old for the area.  streetview and a pic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2115088,-75.6889488,3a,75y,7.12h,81.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szMDe9g2fZZxrt4LUWsswtA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

b7163d2a905776716a87faf22e21e0del-m21xd-

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49 minutes ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I have found 1 in hatteras that seems to be quite old for the area.  streetview and a pic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2115088,-75.6889488,3a,75y,7.12h,81.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szMDe9g2fZZxrt4LUWsswtA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

b7163d2a905776716a87faf22e21e0del-m21xd-

 

 

I could be very wrong but it seems like CIDP is a well-suited palm for the zone 8b regions of the Outer Banks. 

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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  • 2 years later...
On 7/29/2016 at 10:12 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Where is the Phoenix canariensis most northern(ly) found in the USA? I saw some in Charleston, S.C. and that is as far north (on the east coast) I have evern seen them, what about the west coast? And has anyone ever seen one more north than Charleston on the east coast? I have been wondering where these things start to come up. 

Banana Joe showed a young one in Tofino starting to trunk.

Nothing to say here. 

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5 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

That's Canada.

Still technically counts as Banana Joe showed the garden in Tofino with the cidp.

Nothing to say here. 

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At this point in time it’s Gold beach, Oregon. Come back in 10  or 15 years. I have to imagine the lack of heat and excessive moisture in Tofino will do them in eventually. 

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On 7/30/2018 at 11:33 AM, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I may have found your answer for long term survival.  while charelston seems to have the largest and oldest CIDP in the state, it seems there are a few old ones even north of that. This CIDP is in Myrtle beach South carolina and seems to be the oldest in the area and probably horry and georgetown county.  this picture was taken in 2016.  take a gander at the glory of the northernmost long term CIDP.

12036469_10153526989657483_8174664496135

Where is this in myrtle?

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I live here in St. Augustine and have lived here most of my live.   Just for the record that isn't Myrtle Beach, that is on the corner of Cordova Street and Saragossa Street in St. Augustine, Florida.  One of my friends lived in that house back in the early 1980s.  It is a beautiful CIDP and still looks good.  That area was built up in the late 1880s so it is probably from the early 1900s at least.  I'm sure there are plenty in Myrtle Beach though,  that photo just isn't from MB.

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Lou St. Aug, FL

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9 hours ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

I live here in St. Augustine and have lived here most of my live.   Just for the record that isn't Myrtle Beach, that is on the corner of Cordova Street and Saragossa Street in St. Augustine, Florida.  One of my friends lived in that house back in the early 1980s.  It is a beautiful CIDP and still looks good.  That area was built up in the late 1880s so it is probably from the early 1900s at least.  I'm sure there are plenty in Myrtle Beach though,  that photo just isn't from MB.

I later found out the guy who told me that was in Myrtle Beach was a troll, disregard that post. Never knew we had trolls in the palm community until that. 

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I will chime in here for Texas. While the west coast and east coast is moderated by the ocean. We have plenty of long term Canaries well inland from the Gulf of Mexico. The northern most I have seen that survived the coldest decade was Taylor Texas. Which is northeast of Austin in a rural town. It was sited on the southern side of a small house and looks like it had about 5 ft of trunk as it was heavily damaged, but survived. 
so in Texas they can survive long term about 200 miles inland without any mountains to block Arctic air and properly sited. There are a few post 1980s in Dallas and even rural areas south of there.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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13 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I later found out the guy who told me that was in Myrtle Beach was a troll, disregard that post. Never knew we had trolls in the palm community until that. 

Sorry you got hit by a troll. 

Lou St. Aug, FL

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