Sabal Minor - Native To Southeastern Virginia

[PalmTreeDude]

I have been hearing that Sabal Minor are native to the extreme southeastern portions of Virginia, I have actually seen some in a group by the woods down there one time (I did not think to take a picture because at the time I didn't really care, now I am wishing I did.) and they sure did not look planted. I have also heard that they are found in the Virginia portion of the Great Dismal Swamp. Here is a artical on caring for them, but it also states they are native aswell (LINK: http://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/HORT/HORT-60/HORT-60-PDF.pdf ) as you can see it states that the native range includes southeastern Virginia. I will be posting more about this sometime this week. But for now, what do you think?

Edited June 6, 2016 by PalmTreeDude
Typo

[Las Palmas Norte]

Probably "adaptable" but not "native". As for the isolated siting you mentioned, ... any ones guess.

Cheers, Barrie.

[Yunder Wækraus]

20 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Probably "adaptable" but not "native". As for the isolated siting you mentioned, ... any ones guess.

Cheers, Barrie.

Why not native?

[Pal Meir]

25 minutes ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

Why not native?

If Henderson 1995 and Glassman 1972 are correct, S minor is not native (i.e. natural) to SE Virginia.

[Yunder Wækraus]

2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

If Henderson 1995 and Glassman 1972 are correct, S minor is not native (i.e. natural) to SE Virginia.

They could easily be wrong.

[Brad Mondel]

It's native to eastern North Carolina, why couldn't there be some undiscovered pockets in east Virginia? I think more research needs to be done. 

[PalmTreeDude]

I am convinced they are native to some parts of Southeastern Virginia. Like I said, I will be posting a larger more detailed post about this topic sometime this week or weekend. They could be easily native because the zones that they are know to grow native goes as low as 8a. The southeastern portion of Virginia is in 7b and 8a. They are known to be hardy to zone 6b. So I could see them easily growing native in southeastern Virginia. Also the climates are similar to some of those that the palm is known to be native to. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by PalmTreeDude
Typo

[Yunder Wækraus]

I think this debate goes back to the controversy of what "native" means and why such a designation should or shouldn't matter. Virginia is the oldest English-speaking territory in the Americas, and coastal Virginia was the first area settled within the state. The first settlers would not have mapped the distribution of rather obscure (to them) flora with which they were not too familiar. Indeed, the vast majority of plants and animals these first settlers encountered were entirely new. (The entire Island of Britain only has about 50 native trees and shrubs; Virginia has many more than that.) The extreme southeastern portion of the state is probably warm enough to have allowed alligators and palms in the recent past, if not now. (Gator story: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/animal_forecast/2013/02/alligators_in_virginia_climate_change_could_be_pushing_cold_blooded_species.html )
 

This debate reminds me of the one regarding the Moapa palms (in the sense that the presence of a palm species known to exist in the wild in a neighboring state is not accepted as possibly native when encountered in habitat). The Washingtonia palms found around the Moapa spring were almost surely "native" in the sense that the word is now used, but the powers that be deemed them invasive and destroyed them. (Here's the story: http://www.xeri.com/Moapa/ )

 

[Pal Meir]

8 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

They could easily be wrong.

Maybe they are wrong. It would not be the first case, e.g. for Lytocaryum/Syagrus hoehnei both mentioned only São Paulo, but not Paraná as native states.

[PalmTreeDude]

Well this is an old post... I still do believe there is at least one natural Sabal minor somewhere in Virginia undiscovered but I have learned SO much more about palms from when I first posted this. Any more "up-to-date" thoughts? 

[Yunder Wækraus]

2 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Well this is an old post... I still do believe there is at least one natural Sabal minor somewhere in Virginia undiscovered but I have learned SO much more about palms from when I first posted this. Any more "up-to-date" thoughts? 

Just visited the area for my first time over spring break, and I sure didn't see any :-) (I didn't look too hard, though)

[PalmTreeDude]

17 hours ago, Yunder Wækraus said:

Just visited the area for my first time over spring break, and I sure didn't see any :-) (I didn't look too hard, though)

I was there in January and I saw a ouch of them growing up age at a wire fence in a field, they were big and were in maintained, they stilll had dead fronds on the bottoms. I believe they were naturalized or planted and forgotten. There were guaranteed guaranteed planted ones even bigger just down the street. There was zero cold damage to them so Virginia Beach is clearly warm enough for them. This was up by First Landing State Park. There sure was a lot of Spanish Moss! 

[climate change virginia]

it was until they were cleared from the land by colonizers