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Your soil mix, tell us


Monòver

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1 hour ago, Reynevan said:

WHat is the grade of this pine bark?

Most of the bark is about 0.5 cm to 1.5 cm in size. There are also among the 3cm pieces. I cut them smaller by hand with pruning scissors. 

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On 1/31/2016 at 3:50 PM, Pal Meir said:

The three main ingredients of my “standard” soil mix (only!) for small potted palms that require a fast drainage, and one example for a special palm (Syagrus insignis): Pine bark 2-8mm, Seramis® (baked loamy clay), LECA.

56ae1ec1893a5_23IngredientsP1010003.thum

56ae1ec63570d_14SoilSyagrusinsignis.thum

Have you ever tested Seramis mixes ? There is apparently another "palm" specific one.

https://www.amazon.de/Seramis-Spezial-Substrat-Orchideen-Mix-10x2/dp/B002RWJPIW/ref=sr_1_9?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=3FM2S8XSAW0LT&keywords=seramis+orchideen&qid=1570657803&sprefix=seramis+orchi%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-9

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16 hours ago, Reynevan said:

No, I don’t trust so called palm-mixes. They may be good for standard palms like Phoenix canariensis or so …

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My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Is it True, that Queen Palms , are not fussy about soil types ?   Same for Royals? As long as its quick draining ? Some put in sand, some put in perlite,  which tends to float to the top, after a while, some use gravel ?  Sone place in baking soda, to make the soil,  more Alkaline??

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On 10/10/2019 at 9:45 AM, Patrick Palms said:

Is it True, that Queen Palms , are not fussy about soil types ?   Same for Royals? As long as its quick draining ? Some put in sand, some put in perlite,  which tends to float to the top, after a while, some use gravel ?  Sone place in baking soda, to make the soil,  more Alkaline??

I don't know much but I do know that you shouldn't use baking soda to make the soil more alkaline with Queen Palms unless the soil you have is EXTREMELY acidic. 

Queen palms actually like acidic soil. Im sure someone here can tell you about specifics. 

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Queens are popular here in Floriduh partially because they'll grow almost anywhere with little attention.  Of course a lot of them look pretty bad because a lot of them get very little attention.  :D  As a partial answer to the question, Queens seem to be pretty tolerant of soils.  My neighbor has a 30' tall seeding one and they spread all over my yard.  Last fall I yanked a seedling out of the ground and tossed it in a 3 gallon pot full of random Florida dirt, just to see what would happen.  I put it in my "tropical area" that gets a thorough overhead sprinkler drenching every morning. It's now 3 feet tall and has been fully pinnate for several months, with zero attention.

If you are planning on keeping one in a pot for a long time, then you'd probably want to look at a looser mix with a significant percentage of perlite, expanded clay or other aerating materials.  And unless the pH is extremely low you do not want to add anything to neutralize the acidity.  High pH is bad for many palms, Queens included.

Regular sand seems to keep a lot of moisture and is super heavy, I've actually been looking at using "paver base."  It appears to be a very large diameter coarse sand, and is readily available at every big box store here in the US.  I'll have to pick up a few grains and see the size, but it looks a lot bigger than every other sand mix I've seen locally.

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On 10/10/2019 at 9:45 AM, Patrick Palms said:

Is it True, that Queen Palms , are not fussy about soil types ?   Same for Royals? As long as its quick draining ? Some put in sand, some put in perlite,  which tends to float to the top, after a while, some use gravel ?  Sone place in baking soda, to make the soil,  more Alkaline??

Calcium, an essential for good palm growth, is what to add to the soil that will increase the pH, not baking soda.

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Here's a photo of the Sakrete brand Paver Base, found at a local Home Depot for $4.50 for a ~40lb bag.  I'm not sure what type of material this is made from, but the grain size is a mixture of a wide range of sizes from fine powder up to nearly fingernail diameter.  It looks like about 30% of it is around 0.1" to 0.25" (2.5-6mm) diameter, with a lot of small crushed grains in the 0.05-0.1" (1-2.5mm) range.  I'm guessing it is not washed, and it's made to compact firmly into a solid substrate for pavers.  But when mixed in with expanded clay, organics and something like perlite, it might work?  Has anyone tried this?

552861999_SakretePaverBase.thumb.jpg.a2a99e8ac8f8e9486d2ba65437551c31.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Here's a photo of the Sakrete brand Paver Base, found at a local Home Depot for $4.50 for a ~40lb bag.  I'm not sure what type of material this is made from, but the grain size is a mixture of a wide range of sizes from fine powder up to nearly fingernail diameter.  It looks like about 30% of it is around 0.1" to 0.25" (2.5-6mm) diameter, with a lot of small crushed grains in the 0.05-0.1" (1-2.5mm) range.  I'm guessing it is not washed, and it's made to compact firmly into a solid substrate for pavers.  But when mixed in with expanded clay, organics and something like perlite, it might work?  Has anyone tried this?

552861999_SakretePaverBase.thumb.jpg.a2a99e8ac8f8e9486d2ba65437551c31.jpg

If it is the same stuff I'd used for some some palm/ other seedling batches in the past while in Bradenton ( same product I bought there isn't sold here ),  you should be fine. If memory serves me correct, Paver Base, at least what I had picked up from Lowe's, is limestone based so it might be a bit alkaline for stuff that wants more acidic soil conditions. Might wash out all the finer particulate.  That said, worked well,  and provided good drainage, esp when mixed w/ other components I use regularly ..and a good ratio of Jungle Growth planting mix, which apparently was discontinued since I can't find it for sale anywhere. No idea why.  Worked good when I used it for rooting cuttings also.. Again though, your experience(s) using it may be different.  

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On 10/17/2019 at 12:46 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

If it is the same stuff I'd used for some some palm/ other seedling batches in the past while in Bradenton ( same product I bought there isn't sold here ),  you should be fine. If memory serves me correct, Paver Base, at least what I had picked up from Lowe's, is limestone based so it might be a bit alkaline for stuff that wants more acidic soil conditions. Might wash out all the finer particulate.  That said, worked well,  and provided good drainage, esp when mixed w/ other components I use regularly ..and a good ratio of Jungle Growth planting mix, which apparently was discontinued since I can't find it for sale anywhere. No idea why.  Worked good when I used it for rooting cuttings also.. Again though, your experience(s) using it may be different.  

 

I don't think Jungle is discontinued, but I have noticed that the midwest seems to have problems locating it. 

I am in Central/South Alabama, and its readily available here. Have you asked your local BB to order you some and have it shipped? Its definitely plentiful here. 

 

I really like Jungle Growth because it seems to have just the right ratio of sand to organic material. 

This spring I built a new planting bed in the back yard and used several cu/yd of Jungle Growth, Topsoil, Compost, Sand, and Perlite mixed together in a 4-2-2-2-1 ratio. Then used Dr. Earth Exotic Blend dry amendments and mixed all this into the native soil. This fall Ive been out mulching and taking care of things for the weeks to come, and I must say it has broken down extremely well. Its very light and fluffy, drains well, and is RICH in worm castings now. 

 

I have also used Fox Farm Ocean forest mixed with sand/perlite, and powdered zeolite powder (as well as several other amendments) and have gotten excellent results from that. 

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1 hour ago, Dartolution said:

 

I don't think Jungle is discontinued, but I have noticed that the midwest seems to have problems locating it. 

I am in Central/South Alabama, and its readily available here. Have you asked your local BB to order you some and have it shipped? Its definitely plentiful here. 

 

I really like Jungle Growth because it seems to have just the right ratio of sand to organic material. 

This spring I built a new planting bed in the back yard and used several cu/yd of Jungle Growth, Topsoil, Compost, Sand, and Perlite mixed together in a 4-2-2-2-1 ratio. Then used Dr. Earth Exotic Blend dry amendments and mixed all this into the native soil. This fall Ive been out mulching and taking care of things for the weeks to come, and I must say it has broken down extremely well. Its very light and fluffy, drains well, and is RICH in worm castings now. 

 

I have also used Fox Farm Ocean forest mixed with sand/perlite, and powdered zeolite powder (as well as several other amendments) and have gotten excellent results from that. 

Thanks for the info! :greenthumb: Will have to look into it. Agreed, a really well balanced mix, imo  that worked out nicely for a wide range of stuff.  Fox Farm O.F. would  be my next go-to for sure.. Never had any issues when I'd used it in the past.

Use stuff like Zeolite, Azomite, Oyster / Crab Shell in my mixes as add in,  stand alone components as it is.. Plants definitely appreciate it. 

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36 minutes ago, Patrick Palms said:

Would you wash paver mix with boiling hot water , to kill bacterial germs etc, 

Don't think you'd need to.. Most inorganic components like that aren't going to harbor many pathogens and, in some cases, you might kill stuff that might benifet the plants.  Simply running cool water over it, to wash out the extra fine material (  mainly silt ) is good enough. 

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Hey all, glad to be here. This is my first post.

I decided to give Al's 5:1:1 basic potting mix a shot. 5 parts pine bark mulch, 1 part peat, 1 part perlite (with a bit of dolomitic garden lime).

I'm happy with the drainage, but I haven't been using it long enough to know whether or not my plants like it. And if I'm being honest, it's difficult to tell when it's time to water again. My moisture meter will read '4' just a few hours after watering, and will hang around '2' for a week until next watering. I could very well be under-watering my Rhapis Palms without realizing it.

They haven't died yet though, and the new growth appears to be okay. Does anybody else have experience with this mix?

Zone 8a

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 8/24/2016 at 11:39 AM, DoomsDave said:

Hmm.

For what it's worth, I've found that soil for outdoor pots should be very different from indoor pots.

Indoors, the plants don't get the wind (unless the house gets a hole blown in it . . ), or the sun, so faster drainage is much better. More perlite, vermiculite, etc. Even peat works okay because it has less of a chance to dry out. This also applies to greenhouses, in my experience, so I note the posts here with great interest.

Outdoors, on the other hand, water retention is best, but not pure humus. Mix that drains too fast is a recipe for death by dry at my place. Most potted palms in the sun get watered every couple days in the summer, twice a week in the winter unless it (hopefully?) rains. Peat! No! Run screaming! When it gets dry it's the Devil to wet well again. That applies to milled peat moss and whole moss from Sphagnum. I have no experience with "coco peat."

I've had vigorous "rooty" palms root through multiple layers of different stuff and make a "parfait" rootball, of all the different layers. (Not a good practice.) Less vigorous palms will stop at barriers. And, the 800 Pound Gorillas root right into the ground . . . . (unless you put them on the concrete).

Don't reuse old potting mix that's been around more than a year. The humus deteriorates and it's no good any more for outdoor plants.

 

Dave, what do you or other SO CA locals use for potting you seedlings or larger palms for outdoor use? I know that we have a lot of commercial guys here, but I only need a small amount for a few palms, so don’t want to mix up huge batches of mix. I will mix small amounts or buy readymade stuff if it is good for outdoor, potted palms here in SO CA. Thanks for any help you guys can provide. 
Butch

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On 6/26/2019 at 11:52 AM, Estlander said:

Wow, you guys all use these crazy soil mixes. I’ve been keeping it simple and it has always worked great for me. It’s fast draining and everything grows great in it. Have germinated a ton of seeds in it and never have lost any to rot. 

I use Scott’s Top Soil. It has sphagnum peat moss and other organic matter in it. All I do is add some perlite to it and that’s it. 

Here’s a pic of my seeding ranch. As you can see everything is green and healthy. Some of the pots are a little too big for the seedings their size but still they grow great with it  

912FABDF-E16F-4365-8DB0-918D78263C33.jpeg

624CBE07-C056-4176-ABDA-FA9EB09B7194.jpeg

Just a quick update. Since last post everything is still growing strong in my lazy and cheap mix. Haven’t lost a single plant ever. 

I keep my potted plants outside all winter as long as there are no freezes. We quite often get low 50’s with rain in winter, during which the soil in my pots almost never has a chance to dry out before we get another rain shower. NW Florida gets pretty regular rainfall in winter.  

BE31AD01-75DF-4CF5-9C4A-47BDBB908A35.jpeg

Edited by Estlander
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  • 1 month later...
On 10/23/2019 at 10:41 AM, rabblemire said:

Hey all, glad to be here. This is my first post.

I decided to give Al's 5:1:1 basic potting mix a shot. 5 parts pine bark mulch, 1 part peat, 1 part perlite (with a bit of dolomitic garden lime).

I'm happy with the drainage, but I haven't been using it long enough to know whether or not my plants like it. And if I'm being honest, it's difficult to tell when it's time to water again. My moisture meter will read '4' just a few hours after watering, and will hang around '2' for a week until next watering. I could very well be under-watering my Rhapis Palms without realizing it.

They haven't died yet though, and the new growth appears to be okay. Does anybody else have experience with this mix?

Update on this:
 

I ended up separating some offshoots from my Rhapis palm and planting into the 5:1:1 mix. After 4 months of growing, the root ball looked very healthy. Not a single dark root to be found. I did encounter some problems with the new growth (I had several spears open up over the winter somehow) looking a little pale and nutrient deficient. This is even with fertilizing weakly with every watering. About 2ml liquid fertilizer per gallon of water.

I'm wondering if maybe the soil PH was too acidic? I've read that pine bark can tie up nitrogen too.

Watering was also a total guessing game. That stuff dried out super fast! I Watered about once a week but didn't have any issues with the tips drying out.

Zone 8a

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