Coconut in New Smyrna Beach Fla w/fruits

[RedRabbit]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

The coconut palms that were lost there in New Smyrna Beach should be replaced with pure Jamaican Talls, Mayjam hybrids and Maypans, all of which are somewhat more cold hardy than Malayan Dwarfs, especially from sources in Central or South Central Florida.

I don't know, Volusia County is just a little too far north. There's a long history of coconuts dying there unfortunately. I think my climate is pretty similar to NSB and I'm not even going to try.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I don't know, Volusia County is just a little too far north. There's a long history of coconuts dying there unfortunately. I think my climate is pretty similar to NSB and I'm not even going to try.

They are marginal here too where I live, but they are such beautiful palms that I have 5 planted in the ground and will probably plant at least 2 more.  They have been known to grow to maturity here and even fruit, so they are definitely worth it, even if we have to replace them every 8 to 10 years or so.

[RedRabbit]

37 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

They are marginal here too where I live, but they are such beautiful palms that I have 5 planted in the ground and will probably plant at least 2 more.  They have been known to grow to maturity here and even fruit, so they are definitely worth it, even if we have to replace them every 8 to 10 years or so.

If you're good with an 8-10yr life span I guess it makes sense to go with them then. If you don't already have the heat cables Walt recommends then they might be a good investment for you at some point down the road.

[Dave-Vero]

Might possibly try Kentiopsis oliviformis.  It's from New Caledonia, which isn't exactly a place for cold snaps, but seems a touch more cold resistant than coconut.  

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

16 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

If you're good with an 8-10yr life span I guess it makes sense to go with them then. If you don't already have the heat cables Walt recommends then they might be a good investment for you at some point down the road.

Thanks, Tiberius, but like I told Walt, that is getting more involved than I am willing to do.  I want them to grow as naturally as possible, though I may wrap the trunks on a few really chilly nights when they are little, but that's about it other than trying to naturally raise the soil temp with compost and mulch to get as close to the magic minimum winter average soil temp of 60F.  Our average soil temps here briefly drop down to about 57F or 57.5F for about 3 weeks in January before the soil temps start warming up again.

John

[Eric in Orlando]

On 5/7/2016, 7:30:22, Ricigliano said:

 

On 5/7/2016, 7:16:34, Ricigliano said:

I know the owner of that property. He is a local nursery owner growing native grasses. He shipped those coconuts in about the size you see in the photos. They were probably there for about 5 years before 2009 and 2010 cold snap did them in.

 

Good to know the history. They looked to have been thriving with full crowns.

 

 

[Eric in Orlando]

On 5/7/2016, 7:30:22, Ricigliano said:

Also, I don't think they killed by extremely cold temps. Rather by but rot from the prolonged cold. I think in 2010 we had like 30 days of subfreezing temps accompanied by sleet one morning. The palms were just regular green malayan coconuts. I think is funny to hear over and over again people hoping to find a unicorn cold hard coconut. lol

 

It was the prolonged cool/cold and not overall temps that killed them. We had several coconuts at Leu Gardens prior to this freeze; several 'Green Malayan', and a 'Maypan and a 'Panama Tall'. Here the coldest night only dropped to 29F but there were 11 other nights at 30-32F and many days where highs were in the upper 40s/low 50sF. The coconuts initially had moderate burn coming into March/April 2010 but they slowly declined and were dead by June/July. The biggest specimen was a 'Green Malayan', it had about 6-7ft of clear trunk/gray wood. It had been planted about 10 years. It also totally declined but never had the crown rot like the others. Once all the foliage browned we trimmed it off and left it in place and treated it with copper. In late summer it started growing and produced several stunted fronds about 1/4 normal size at first but seemed to be recovering. Then we had another prolonged cool winter in 2010-11. Not as bad as the previous but overall colder than normal. It didn't survive this one. If we would have had a "normal" or warmer winter it would have recovered.

After those long winters the 'Panama Tall' we had was no hardier than 'Green Malayan' or 'Maypan'.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

 

It was the prolonged cool/cold and not overall temps that killed them. We had several coconuts at Leu Gardens prior to this freeze; several 'Green Malayan', and a 'Maypan and a 'Panama Tall'. Here the coldest night only dropped to 29F but there were 11 other nights at 30-32F and many days where highs were in the upper 40s/low 50sF. The coconuts initially had moderate burn coming into March/April 2010 but they slowly declined and were dead by June/July. The biggest specimen was a 'Green Malayan', it had about 6-7ft of clear trunk/gray wood. It had been planted about 10 years. It also totally declined but never had the crown rot like the others. Once all the foliage browned we trimmed it off and left it in place and treated it with copper. In late summer it started growing and produced several stunted fronds about 1/4 normal size at first but seemed to be recovering. Then we had another prolonged cool winter in 2010-11. Not as bad as the previous but overall colder than normal. It didn't survive this one. If we would have had a "normal" or warmer winter it would have recovered.

After those long winters the 'Panama Tall' we had was no hardier than 'Green Malayan' or 'Maypan'.

 

 

 

 

Eric,

You should concentrate on growing pure Jamaican Talls from nearby areas of Central Florida like Cocoa Beach and Melbourne, and Mayjam hybrids of Malayans and Jamaican Talls.  These should do okay and even fruit in the warmer parts of Orlando like on the south side of the lakes and closer to the downtown heat island.  Malayans on the other hand, though they may occasionally reach maturity between bad winters, will struggle and never look as good as pure Jamaicans and Mayjams would there.

John

[Eric in Orlando]

If anyone wants to donate any of these to Leu Gardens, we will be more than happy to add them to the collection.

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

10 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

If anyone wants to donate any of these to Leu Gardens, we will be more than happy to add them to the collection.

 

 

Eric,

Where exactly is Leu Gardens in Orlando?  Is it on the south side of town, or near downtown, or on the south side of a lake?

John

[RedRabbit]

6 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Eric,

Where exactly is Leu Gardens in Orlando?  Is it on the south side of town, or near downtown, or on the south side of a lake?

John

East of downtown on the south side of a lake... Eric knows the climate there better than anyone, but I'll be a little bold and conjecture part of Leu Gardens might technically be over the threshold for 10b. There's a fairly large area that goes from the lake right into a dense canopy which makes for a great microclimate.

[Eric in Orlando]

It is just north of downtown, between downtown Orlando and Winter Park.

It is a 50 acre botanical garden owned by the City of Orlando and on the southeast side of Lake Rowena. We do have a great microclimate with a good tree canopy in parts. It is a zone 9b/10a climate as it can get into the upper 20sF sometimes. But it can vary. In Jan. 2003 there was one night at 27F. The closest official NWS station is at Orlando Executive Airport just a mile or 2 away. They recorded 27F and we recorded 27F on our Davis weather station. We put 15 min/max thermometers around on the property and a majority recorded 28-30F. But the range was from 26F to 35F. The 26F was in an open and exposed area that is always a frost pocket here.

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016‎ ‎1‎:‎11‎:‎02‎, RedRabbit said:

East of downtown on the south side of a lake... Eric knows the climate there better than anyone, but I'll be a little bold and conjecture part of Leu Gardens might technically be over the threshold for 10b. There's a fairly large area that goes from the lake right into a dense canopy which makes for a great microclimate.

Thanks, Tiberius.  I would say based on that, Jamaican Talls should grow to maturity there producing lots of viable nuts, and Malayans would probably grow to about 25. ft. tall too with dozens of viable nuts on them, especially ones planted close to the water to fully receive the water effect that Walt has so eloquently described in his area.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016‎ ‎8‎:‎55‎:‎25‎, Eric in Orlando said:

It is just north of downtown, between downtown Orlando and Winter Park.

It is a 50 acre botanical garden owned by the City of Orlando and on the southeast side of Lake Rowena. We do have a great microclimate with a good tree canopy in parts. It is a zone 9b/10a climate as it can get into the upper 20sF sometimes. But it can vary. In Jan. 2003 there was one night at 27F. The closest official NWS station is at Orlando Executive Airport just a mile or 2 away. They recorded 27F and we recorded 27F on our Davis weather station. We put 15 min/max thermometers around on the property and a majority recorded 28-30F. But the range was from 26F to 35F. The 26F was in an open and exposed area that is always a frost pocket here.

 

Eric, with temps like that, pure Jamaican Talls, and pure Mexican Talls could easily reach maturity with a good amount of viable nuts on them from year to year.  They would suffer some frostbite damage in colder winters like you described, but would quickly bounce back in the spring.  Maymex hybrids (crossed between Malayan Dwarfs and Mexican Talls) would do well there too, as well as probably locally grown Maypans.  Even the Malayan Dwarfs could be expected to grow to about 20ft.+ with some nuts on them between really bad winters.  Go for it and try as many varieties as you can get your hands on.  If I get some Maymex hybrid sprouts from my beach coconuts to sprout in a few months, I could send you one.

John

[Bill H2DB]

   I was in NSB yesterday , doing a cruise-around to show the area to to some family.

From my house here in the heart of the Daytona area , we went down to the Inlet ( lunch on the Sunglow Pier at Crabby Joe's ) , and to the Lighthouse , and then around the

Inlet to NSB ,  via US1 , and across the N. Causeway, to the south side of the Inlet and on to Flagler Ave for a walk-a-bout . Here are a few pics of the Coconut .

   We then drove up through the neighborhoods to the Coast Guard Station .

The east Volusia County area has been hard hit by Hurricane Matthew , and this area and up thru Daytona and into Flagler has piles of debris everywhere , despite the ongoing

cleanup . The volume has been huge .  Many quite wind blown palms and damaged /destroyed trees ,and homes , signs , you name it .  

             There's a lot of various tropicals throughout the NSB beachside . 

   Most businesses are up and operating , but it was a stout Storm , for sure .

 

NSB Coco16-1 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

NSB Coco16-3 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

NSB Coco16-4 by Bill H, on Flickr

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

   I was in NSB yesterday , doing a cruise-around to show the area to to some family.

From my house here in the heart of the Daytona area , we went down to the Inlet ( lunch on the Sunglow Pier at Crabby Joe's ) , and to the Lighthouse , and then around the

Inlet to NSB ,  via US1 , and across the N. Causeway, to the south side of the Inlet and on to Flagler Ave for a walk-a-bout . Here are a few pics of the Coconut .

   We then drove up through the neighborhoods to the Coast Guard Station .

The east Volusia County area has been hard hit by Hurricane Matthew , and this area and up thru Daytona and into Flagler has piles of debris everywhere , despite the ongoing

cleanup . The volume has been huge .  Many quite wind blown palms and damaged /destroyed trees ,and homes , signs , you name it .  

             There's a lot of various tropicals throughout the NSB beachside . 

   Most businesses are up and operating , but it was a stout Storm , for sure .

 

NSB Coco16-1 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

NSB Coco16-3 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

NSB Coco16-4 by Bill H, on Flickr

Thanks for sharing Bill, I'm glad to see it is doing well. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎15‎:‎31‎, Bill H2DB said:

   I was in NSB yesterday , doing a cruise-around to show the area to to some family.

From my house here in the heart of the Daytona area , we went down to the Inlet ( lunch on the Sunglow Pier at Crabby Joe's ) , and to the Lighthouse , and then around the

Inlet to NSB ,  via US1 , and across the N. Causeway, to the south side of the Inlet and on to Flagler Ave for a walk-a-bout . Here are a few pics of the Coconut .

   We then drove up through the neighborhoods to the Coast Guard Station .

The east Volusia County area has been hard hit by Hurricane Matthew , and this area and up thru Daytona and into Flagler has piles of debris everywhere , despite the ongoing

cleanup . The volume has been huge .  Many quite wind blown palms and damaged /destroyed trees ,and homes , signs , you name it .  

             There's a lot of various tropicals throughout the NSB beachside . 

   Most businesses are up and operating , but it was a stout Storm , for sure .

 

NSB Coco16-1 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

NSB Coco16-3 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

NSB Coco16-4 by Bill H, on Flickr

Hey Bill,

Glad to see that you made it through the storm alright.  That coconut palm is really looking good and seems to have made it through the storm with flying colors!

John

[CaptainBrownBeard]

I'm new to palmtalk. It's been a few months since the last post, but I'm wondering if anyone in the Daytona/ New Smyrna Beach area has any nuts from the hardier palms mentioned above. I would love to get my hands on one.

Patrick

[ck_in_fla]

On 11/11/2015, 8:12:52, Bill H2DB said:

Here are fresh pics of the palm on the north NSB beachside , on Flagler Ave.

It is in front of The Beacon restaurant .  The inter-freeze time we're having now has a number of

tropicals reaching some decent size. There's another fair sized Cocos not too far from this one , on

an Island in the river , which is itself a replacement for previous sacrifices to the Cold Demon .

 

NSB Coco 1 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

NSB Coco 3 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

NSB Coco 4 by Bill H, on Flickr

Anyone know if this tree is still there and what the condition of it is?  Since this past winter was so mild, I would suspect it is much larger and may have set fruit since we last saw it.  If anyone in that area could post some updated pictures, I am sure everyone would like to see...

[RedRabbit]

8 hours ago, ck_in_fla said:

Anyone know if this tree is still there and what the condition of it is?  Since this past winter was so mild, I would suspect it is much larger and may have set fruit since we last saw it.  If anyone in that area could post some updated pictures, I am sure everyone would like to see...

It was still there as of December:  https://www.google.com/maps/@29.0385769,-80.8973522,3a,75y,357.62h,84.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUPKMxfNibrpIIz6AWGfMYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Bazza]

Pics I took back in December 2007 of the coco cluster here....now gone.  My friend who planted them put the lights up.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Bazza

[ck_in_fla]

It's been a very long time since anyone posted progress messages on any of the Zone 10 palms growing in New Smyrna Beach.  Normally, my family spends a week over there in September.  But, we were unable to go this year.

Can anyone provide updated images of the trees we have been following?  There were some really nice Coconut Palms at a beachfront home a few miles south of the South Causeway.

Thanks!

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Yes, PLEASE, some updated photos of the Zone 10 palms there, especially the Coconut Palms.

Thanks

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, ck_in_fla said:

It's been a very long time since anyone posted progress messages on any of the Zone 10 palms growing in New Smyrna Beach.  Normally, my family spends a week over there in September.  But, we were unable to go this year.

Can anyone provide updated images of the trees we have been following?  There were some really nice Coconut Palms at a beachfront home a few miles south of the South Causeway.

Thanks!

The Coconut Palm at Beacon Jan. 2019 (Courtesy of Google Maps):

 

Took a quick Google Map drive looking for the beachfront Cocos, but didn't find them.  I did see what looked like Ficus aurea in some of the Sabals on Hill St. and Atlantic Ave. though.