Waiting and preparing for a seed with long sinker to germinate

73 posts in this topic

Steve, how much time did it take since gemination for the appearance of an aerial sprout? Have you removed any top soil? As for your question, I think seedlings like full sun exposure (they grow in savannahs to my knowledge and the deep sinker is an adaptation to such enviroment), but under no circumstances exposure of root zone to sun's heating effect!

Edited by Phoenikakias
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6 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Steve, how much time did it take since gemination for the appearance of an aerial sprout? Have you removed any top soil? As for your question, I think seedlings like full sun exposure (they grow in savannahs to my knowledge and the deep sinker is an adaptation to such enviroment), but under no circumstances exposure of root zone to sun's heating effect!

I'm not sure quite how long it took for the ariel sprout to form.  Maybe like a 3 months after germination? I moved away some of the soil on top.

I've repotted these a few times along the way, and I've taken a pretty haphazard approach.  It's been difficult to find  consistent advice on this process, and the advice that has been received has been from different climate zones.  

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A long anticipated update; Cotyledonary petiole above ground and as well right beneath auxiliary pot, where the cotyledonary petiole used to be fleshy and thick, became soft and wrinkled. But still no aerial part visible. So I have decided today to take matter in to own hands and expose the hidden part of the seedling. I have been greatly helped by the fact that the softened cotyledonary petiole had becime also quite flexible. So I removed easily auxiliary pot/liner and then proceeded in to removing pumice from main tall pot. I was at first pleasantly surprised that the pumice just a few cm's below surface was maintaining a slight moisture. It can be seen in the picture that moistened pumice has a darker hue than dry one. All I have been doing was taking care that there always was some water (about 0.5 cm/5mm deep) left in the saucer beneath pot.

IMG_20160513_164537.thumb.jpg.0d142ce114IMG_20160513_164630.thumb.jpg.3c4fe12395

Then only about 18 cm below medium's final surface and about 19 cm below pot's I found bottom limit  of seedling's basal part. There was a root from this point inserting deeper in to medium, but I was not supposed to expose it because very probably root system has already started branching as I saw an adventive tiny rootlet running horizontally.

IMG_20160513_164933.thumb.jpg.b0d4a7b974IMG_20160513_165500.thumb.jpg.2d4b7744f2

Pumule was also formed but it looked a bit like trapped inside the petiole. So I decided to hepl pumule get free from the petiole with two small incisions . I kept otherwise the  main attachment of the seed to the seedling, though I am not sure at all whether seed still feeds seedling. Then I filled in  pot again with pumice leaving only the tip of the pumule above surface. 

IMG_20160513_165710.thumb.jpg.92338a9c24

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IMG_20160513_171052.thumb.jpg.6be0c770b0IMG_20160513_171440.thumb.jpg.f75bc9930c

Finally some numbers. Despite the general information that the cotyledonary petiole grows to 60 cm long or more, I measured between seed and bottom side of seddling's basal part only 42 to 45 cm.

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That’s actually what is called obstetrics! You are a real doctor! :greenthumb::D (Or is there also a male counterpart to »midwife«?) :lol:

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"Geburtshelfer":rolleyes:

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I hope it survives and does well! :)

The cotyledonary petioles on mine haven't started shrinking yet but I think there is movement on my oldest one and may have news relatively soon

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Interesting.  I have a few at about that stage too.  They don't have seemed to grow much over the last few months, but they are just in ambient temps, and get a good bit of shade.  Hopefully, they will grow better in the summer with more heat and sun.

IMAG0765.thumb.jpg.2996f53168f83f0adda56IMAG0764.thumb.jpg.79d4fdbc87a7d3fb84f35

16oz can for scale.  I unearthed to the base of the bulb for these photos.

IMAG0766.thumb.jpg.702e210ecfcc7a96cf106IMAG0767.thumb.jpg.070141ed9414da37de179

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Steve, how big is the bulb?

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34 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Steve, how big is the bulb?

The width at what appears to be the base is maybe an inch wide.  The bottom of the bulb to the top of the spike is around 4".  I lot of perlite has floated to the top, and the organics in the soil have broken down for a little soggier soil, so I haven't watered it as much.  I think that the white rock is a good top coat.  Mine was yellowish like yours with it first emerged.  I don't remember if it was in any sun at that point.  Also, the sheath that enclosed the spike gradually dried up as well.  In arid climates like ours, it's difficult to keep that from drying up.

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Another update. Actual leaf or second plumule (no idea what it may exactly be but I bet on leaf) has started emerging. Thanks to the medium I can water every day and moisturize cotyledonary petiole and seed as well. @Sabal Steve what is the progress of your seedlings?

IMG_20160611_111919.thumb.jpg.2d655ce176IMG_20160611_111944.thumb.jpg.b8c8e7e083

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16 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Another update. Actual leaf or second plumule (no idea what it may exactly be but I bet on leaf) has started emerging. Thanks to the medium I can water every day and moisturize cotyledonary petiole and seed as well. @Sabal Steve what is the progress of your seedlings?

It is the eophyll, congrats! :greenthumb::DBorassus palms have only one plumule.

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8 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Another update. Actual leaf or second plumule (no idea what it may exactly be but I bet on leaf) has started emerging. Thanks to the medium I can water every day and moisturize cotyledonary petiole and seed as well. @Sabal Steve what is the progress of your seedlings?

IMG_20160611_111919.thumb.jpg.2d655ce176IMG_20160611_111944.thumb.jpg.b8c8e7e083

Nice!  Here's a pic of mine from a few months ago.  Not much has changed since...  Shade till late afternoon this time of year.

 

 

 

Congrats.  Mine took a nosedive and turned Brown.  I think that the soil broke down and turned soggy:(  I'll leave it out through summer and see if anything changes.  I feel it needs a little better draining soil.

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Try to insulate thoroughly pot,replace top soil in the pot with pumice and place pot in a position exposed to sun until noon. Perhaps it is to wet and shady. 

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On 11/6/2016, 4:07:33, Pal Meir said:

It is the eophyll, congrats! :greenthumb::DBorassus palms have only one plumule.

@Pal Meir I am getting quite confused. Is this actually a second plumule or the first leaf, as another leaf seems trying to pop out of it.

IMG_20160705_101503.thumb.jpg.6442a8c257IMG_20160705_114657.thumb.jpg.7fbb063bc7IMG_20160705_114722.thumb.jpg.a76cd8040b

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Well, after a second thought, what seemed initially to be the actual leaf, is finally another (the second) plumule. In the photo albums represented in the cited links the number of plumules was unclear, either because first plumule was remaining buried or because it had already rotted away. I have reasons to believe, because of the lengthof the second plumule,  that basal part of the plant in nature remains even more deeply buried and the second plumule serves as a reverse sonde or a tube for the first leaf to reach surface...

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Great thread!! Very good documentaries about a very interesting species!

I guess a mail order with those (monster)seeds would never go through customs....

Please keep going with your updates.

best regards

 

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Another update. Eophyll is not undivided in strict sense.

IMG_20160809_122422.thumb.jpg.19d2a58c6d

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By setting up the drip system I accidentaly broke the connection to the seed (I was trying to put seed also under the drip line). Seedling however didn't bother at all as it keeps growing. So it can feed itself already!

IMG_20160809_122456.thumb.jpg.2563e9d912

Edited by Phoenikakias
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I doubt though that it still remained any haustorium in the seed by the time of separation as the cotyledonary petiole had already started disintegrating in to dry fibers.

IMG_20160809_122507.thumb.jpg.88de0277cb

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Awesome! You did it Konstantinos!!! It's growing well!

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4 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Another update. Eophyll is not undivided in strict sense.

IMG_20160809_122422.thumb.jpg.19d2a58c6d

Two plumules, divided fan-like eophyll … very interesting! :greenthumb:

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2 hours ago, Kostas said:

Awesome! You did it Konstantinos!!! It's growing well!

It will become your's in due time. I just have to pumper it a little more...

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Once it dries up you can cut away the seed. I grew several from Kris a few years ago. I found them to be very easy to sprout and grow to small palms...even in less deep pots. I would recommend full sun and regular water with that fast draining mix. The only reason I don't currently have this one growing is the cold winters and constantly moving killed them. As a note....in smaller pots that the radicle will curl around the bottom of the pot and still produce a seedling with few problems. One plant still survives that I donated to Leu Gardens in Orlando....one day I hope it will be a large palm worthy of Kris' efforts. 

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1 hour ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Once it dries up you can cut away the seed. I grew several from Kris a few years ago. I found them to be very easy to sprout and grow to small palms...even in less deep pots. I would recommend full sun and regular water with that fast draining mix. The only reason I don't currently have this one growing is the cold winters and constantly moving killed them. As a note....in smaller pots that the radicle will curl around the bottom of the pot and still produce a seedling with few problems. One plant still survives that I donated to Leu Gardens in Orlando....one day I hope it will be a large palm worthy of Kris' efforts. 

I water it twice daily. It loves it!

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Mine threw it's first leaf a few weeks ago, about 14 months after germination...

Truthfully, I'm amazed at the resilience of these.  The main root rotted completely in half at one point, while surprising, the bottom half was thriving.  Afterwards, the top half had lots of feeder roots that have "powered" it along.  These would grow fine out here if given different care early on.  My plant has always been outside, and received little care.  The one at the zoo continues to grow, and is flawless.

 

IMAG0947.thumb.jpg.98068723eb0ebb484e4d0

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End of first growing season and today picture of the seedling. Eophyll is longer that it seems in the picture but it is twisted.

IMG_20161029_133358.jpg

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On 5/13/2016, 12:44:32, Phoenikakias said:

A long anticipated update; Cotyledonary petiole above ground and as well right beneath auxiliary pot, where the cotyledonary petiole used to be fleshy and thick, became soft and wrinkled. But still no aerial part visible. So I have decided today to take matter in to own hands and expose the hidden part of the seedling. I have been greatly helped by the fact that the softened cotyledonary petiole had becime also quite flexible. So I removed easily auxiliary pot/liner and then proceeded in to removing pumice from main tall pot. I was at first pleasantly surprised that the pumice just a few cm's below surface was maintaining a slight moisture. It can be seen in the picture that moistened pumice has a darker hue than dry one. All I have been doing was taking care that there always was some water (about 0.5 cm/5mm deep) left in the saucer beneath pot.

IMG_20160513_164537.thumb.jpg.0d142ce114IMG_20160513_164630.thumb.jpg.3c4fe12395

Then only about 18 cm below medium's final surface and about 19 cm below pot's I found bottom limit  of seedling's basal part. There was a root from this point inserting deeper in to medium, but I was not supposed to expose it because very probably root system has already started branching as I saw an adventive tiny rootlet running horizontally.

IMG_20160513_164933.thumb.jpg.b0d4a7b974IMG_20160513_165500.thumb.jpg.2d4b7744f2

Pumule was also formed but it looked a bit like trapped inside the petiole. So I decided to hepl pumule get free from the petiole with two small incisions . I kept otherwise the  main attachment of the seed to the seedling, though I am not sure at all whether seed still feeds seedling. Then I filled in  pot again with pumice leaving only the tip of the pumule above surface. 

IMG_20160513_165710.thumb.jpg.92338a9c24

This is exactly what I'm looking for, I need to do the same. Pics later.

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On 1/11/2017, 4:34:32, foxtail said:

This is exactly what I'm looking for, I need to do the same. Pics later.

Here is, the "basal" was in the bottom of the soil- the one at the left, the other one is a Borassodendron machadonis. 

587804cc524ad_2017-01-1218.32.39.thumb.j

587804efdb566_2017-01-1218.32.18.thumb.j

Edited by foxtail
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Yep, that's it!

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22 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Yep, that's it!

:greenthumb: Thanks mate, your post was/ is very helpful. 

Edited by foxtail
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