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      There has been some confusion regarding the Messaging System on PalmTalk - and what is private and what is posted publicly. I've been asked to explain the two. There are two forms of messages - what I will call "Private Messages" which are Private, and "Activity Messages" which are public. A Private Message is designated with an envelope icon. It is available at the top of every page (click it and use "Compose New"). It is also accessible by hovering over a User's name or Avatar and clicking the envelope icon. Or it is also available on a User's Profile Page - at the top - again, with the envelope icon. Anywhere you see this envelope icon, you can click it and send a Private Message. An "Activity Message" is public. These are the "What's on your Mind" and "Leave a Message on [User X's] Feed" boxes where you can leave a public message directly as a Status Update (on your Profile or Main PT Page) or on a User's Profile Page - which updates his Status Update and also posts on PT's Main Status Update Page. These are "Activities" and labeled as such on the Profile Pages.  What is confusing is that both options (Private and Activity) are available on a User's Profile Page.  Just remember, that if you want to send a Private Message, use the envelope icon link - wherever you see it. That will get you to the Private Messaging Center. Any other "Status Update," like "What's on your Mind," or "Leave a Message on [so-and-so's] Feed," is public. I would make it less confusing if I could, but I can't.

Waiting and preparing for a seed with long sinker to germinate

73 posts in this topic

Main pot is 56 cm and auxiliary liner another 20, making out a total of 76 cm available depth. Not bad, but I wonder how can we make certain that eophyll won't pop up just beneath liner's bottom?!!?

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What species do you try to germinate??? :huh: A Lodoicea invisibilis

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There is no seed in the photo but trust me, it's something big :)  They are on heat for germination, to be planted afterwards

What do you mean by liner's bottom? If you cut the bottom out, then there is only the very thin liner wall for the spear to hit, which is highly unlikely to cause any problems, the eophyll finds the way to push small objects aside

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If not for Lodoicea invisibilis it may be for Medemia argun???:blink: I think the problem will be how deep the seed petiole will go and where the cotyledonary sheath will start. But I don’t think that’s a good idea working with two pots, I would prefer a very long transparent venyl bag or something similar which you can hang up …

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Borassus?

Why not use a modified piece of drainpipe?

Good luck anywayz with germinating and growing this secret palm species!

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If the seeds should be big it could be Borassus aethiopum (just available from RPS)??? :greenthumb:

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We're still curious what you are growing in that???

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Some of the big Borassids can root really deep.

And get big.

The real question is: will Kostas have the room to grow it in his garden if he can germinate it? :o

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I guess the baggie method is out with that one... :mrlooney:

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16 minutes ago, Pando said:

I guess the baggie method is out with that one... :mrlooney:

I don’t think so. As I posted on Oct 17: " But I don’t think that’s a good idea working with two pots, I would prefer a very long transparent venyl bag or something similar which you can hang up …"

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Some update. It was indeed the Borassus aethiopum the project. One seed has already germinated and has been placed immedietely in pot (it has germinated in a tray inside a small heated propagation box with transparent lid - according a study Borassus seeds hate bags and need some sun exposure to germinate). The apparent part of the radicle inside the small pot fattens up nicely an is still ivory white.  

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Wow that's neat!

Where are you going to plant it when it grows (as I know it will under your expert care!)?

Those things turn into 1,800 pound gorillas. Or thereabouts.

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2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

 

1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

I don’t think so. As I posted on Oct 17: " But I don’t think that’s a good idea working with two pots, I would prefer a very long transparent venyl bag or something similar which you can hang up …"

Pal, a couple of years ago both methods were mentioned by Matty B and me in another topic regarding the germination of Medemia. In fact I had also argumented for the 'naked' method (that is lifting seed gradually higher from the surface with the support of a stick. This way one can help with a small incision to liberate eophyll from the cotyledon if something goes wrong (kinda like liberating Bacchus from Zeus's thigh). I followed this method with success for the germination of Hyphaena thebaica seeds. I only regret  that I could not rescue pictures from my old pc. But this method has also a down side, which is that support of the seed above surface is not sufficiently stable, when move of the pot has to happen frequently, for example when the saucer below the pot should be emptied from stagnant water. Besides I trust pumice a lot. It is a very reliable medium, sterile, easily removable and it never gets cloggy but it withholds in the deeper layers a gentle moisture.

Edited by Phoenikakias
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28 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Wow that's neat!

Where are you going to plant it when it grows (as I know it will under your expert care!)?

Those things turn into 1,800 pound gorillas. Or thereabouts.

Dave, tropical plants do not grow quickly here, because we have cold winter and fairly cool spring. So until and if this seedling reaches an outplantable size it may take a decade or more and by then  my garden may get some new free spots thanks to rpw and paysandisia or to freaky cold spell:sick:. Otherwise I will donate it to some one who has the space, the proper climate and the love for palms. It is a fun for itself to germinate and grow in pot such rare and difficult palms... 

Edited by Phoenikakias
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I just scored a few of those seeds also P1020596.thumb.JPG.8aea55ecebbcfec640d71

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P1020595.thumb.JPG.aa9eb9160650010133629

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Some news. I discovered something like mashed fruit on the radicle, It gets cleaned easily from it just by sweep and below this muck flesh of radicle is healthy and white. It dos not smell bad at all but rather fruity. It seems to me as if part of the endosperm runs off as the radicle grows. Is this natural?

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These are remnants of the calyptra and absolutely normal. Nothing to worry about as long as the cotyledonary petiole is felt firm underneath

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Here is its little sibling at my place, sprouted this week and freshly potted up today :) 

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7 minutes ago, Kostas said:

Aqui é o seu irmão pequeno em meu lugar, brotou esta semana e recém envasadas-se hoje :) 

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How deep and your pot?

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56cm, probably barely deep enough for it to grow well

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Cool pics! I'm trying to get some Borassus flabellifer seeds to grow out for my future garden. It's definitely not an easy to find species! 

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Another update. I am observing recently strange behaviour of germinated seed. It lifts itself from the side of the cotyledonary petiole and it buries itself rapidly from the opposite side, and this takes place RAPIDLY, every day I notice movement! Seed feels well anchored in the medium... Any idea what is going on?

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Cut the old pot and replant the seedling into a strong plastic bag filled with a fast draining soft medium:

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Pal, substrate is pumice of a bit chunkier parts up to 1 cm diameter and smaller. In such pumice it grew after germination Wodyetia, Calamus, Chamaedorea and Juabaeopsis to name few examples. Besides this Borassus itself was left to grow its radicle directly on pumice from the very beginning (see picture below) and the radicle did indeed penetrate through the pumice in the small black container where the free space for some by-pass movement is very small if not absent. And, as you see in the previous pictures in this thread, the radicle has been also moving  through pumice in the main pot. So your explanation at least at first glance contradicts my previous experience on this very same seed and many other seeds as well. If  your theory with my own experience can be some way reconciled, this has to be only that pot is very deep and therefore much pumice lays above deeper layers so that those latter are more compacted in the sense that particles are not movable any more by the radicle. All situation haowever gives me rather the impression that radicle has hit white pot's bottom (overall height 75 to 74 cm) or that it for some other reason it makes a u-turn...

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At first the seed petiole is quite thin, but afterwards when producing the cotyl. sheath it gets much thicker. That may cause the problems.

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Konstantin, looks like your bouncing baby is already ready to go bungee jumping off the Parthenon . . . . :)

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I use perlit with some pumice.

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1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

At first the seed petiole is quite thin, but afterwards when producing the cotyl. sheath it gets much thicker. That may cause the problems.

Hmm, your part matches perfectly to my explanation (do you see how easily the rare part of this seed sinks in to the pumice on the surfice?) for a complete more plausible explanation! Now honestly, aren't you curious to see what is actually happening?

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6 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Hmm, your part matches perfectly to my explanation (do you see how easily the rare part of this seed sinks in to the pumice on the surfice?) for a complete more plausible explanation! Now honestly, aren't you curious to see what is actually happening?

You caught me … :P

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That borassus seed looks like a very "horny" male rodent.  :o

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Some more update. Seed has turned verticaly to soil level and it buried itself up to the middle with a very impressive aerial arching of the cotyledonary petiole. But beneath surface the sinker fattens up impressively... I suspect a surprise from beneath will pop up in the next months!

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Here is another germinator I noticed a week or two ago

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Potted yesterday in an organic rich soil mixed with fine zeolite, like my other one.

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Still waiting to see something above ground on my other one. It's firm though and looks good so far

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I've had this going on for a while, but I'm not quite sure where to go from here...

Does anyone know if I can put these in more sun?  They're mostly in the shade right now.

 

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