Chamaedorea tuerckheimii Germination?

[Pal Meir]

I received on 23 September 10 seeds from RPS. The first check revealed that at least 3 were not good: They showed damages by mould or insects, had swollen, or the embryo had already rot. So there are remaining 7 seeds. These seeds seem to have a tendency to go mouldy. Therefore I check them daily.

Has anybody experiences with germinating this species? Any useful advice is welcome! (I have already germinated a couple other Chamaedorea sp.)

(1) Photo of RPS bag
(2) Photo of all 10 seeds
(3) Photo of one of the problematical seeds
(4) Jar with damp kitchen paper (ca. 25-30°C / 77-86°F)

[John Case]

Too often, I see or read about mold on seeds. I clean seeds all of the time and rarely, if ever, have issues with mold. These are my 2 guidelnes to avoid mold

1) Clean all of the fruit around the seed. This is the #1 reason for rot and mold.

2) Ensure a dry exterior, especially if the seed will not be germinated quickly. If the seed needs drying, I store it in perlite or pumice, both sterile.

Since you rely on shipped seeds, you are at the mercy of your supplier, but once you get the seed, apply these 2 rules and you may have better luck. I am certain these are others with ideas....

 

JC

[Kai]

Moulds are difficult to get rid of. They can be killed with chloride or H2O2. But be carefull of the concentrations you use. Of course this sterilization has no use when there is still material left on the seed (fruit pulp). It will rot again if left on.

Pal, I pray for these turckheimii seeds of yours. I know what their price was at RPS.

If you succeed in germinating some, in the future we may have to get in contact to swap pollen. I have 2 seedlings here growing well, but don't know their gender yet.

[cristi]

You are lucky to have only 3 dead seeds from RPS. Look what I have got with 10 expensive seeds (Zamia Inermis). They were very good in the past, but not anymore. Unfortunately!! Last 3 shipments were very poor quality with zero germination or maybe I am not lucky enough to germinate a rotten seed... Whatever.. Good luck with the rest of the seeds.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by cristi

[Pal Meir]

Oh, your seeds look indeed very bad! – You are right, the quality of the seeds from RPS is VERY variable: Very fresh were the seeds of Lytocaryum insigne I got in January 2014 with 10/10 germination rate (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums/72157658000127651). But one year before, I received Lytocaryum weddellianum seeds which I had ordered on 15 February only on 20 March, not fresh any more with the worst germination rate of Lyto wedd in my life …

And those Ch. tuerckheimii seeds above I have ordered on 28 August (late on a Friday, so we should take the next Monday, the 31 August, as real date), but I received the seeds only on 23 September, and this inside Germany, still fresh anymore … ??? (And the price was € 6.16 ≈ US$ 6.89 per one seed.)

[Josh-O]

I have had the same problem with RPS. many of the seeds don't pass the float test

[Ben in Norcal]

I've started focusing my RPS purchases on what is "new" on their site, figuring those are likely to be fresher.

[Kai]

I do the same as Ben, never buy anything that's not been added very recently to the list. With that, my experiences with RPS are still relatively good as opposed to many (but not all) other seed dealers.

However I noticed that the C tuerckheimii seeds are new to their list and wonder how these seeds can be this bad in such a short period.

I think the best way to aquire seeds is to pick them off the tree or ask somebody for a favor.

[Pal Meir]

Happy birthday! The 1st baby among 7 remaining seeds (1/7) …

[Pal Meir]

And here another photo of the baby:

[Kai]

Congratulations Pal! I'm very happy for you (and for the new pollen donor to come).

[Pal Meir]

Thanks for the congrats, Kai, but I guess your 2 Ch. tuerckheimii might be male …

Here a pic of the operculum, the lid of the embryo (the distance between the lines is 6 mm):

[cristi]

Did you use only paper towels? Your seed looks incredible clean. What's your technique? I have always had problems with mold. I often lose half of seeds because of mold. I really want to see your opinion. Believe or not, I read every single post that you write on this site. They are very educative, I am also a "palm-aholic" and your indoor gowing experience is very very useful for me. Thank you for keeping posting!

[Pal Meir]

Did you use only paper towels? Your seed looks incredible clean. What's your technique? I have always had problems with mold. I often lose half of seeds because of mold. I really want to see your opinion. Believe or not, I read every single post that you write on this site. They are very educative, I am also a "palm-aholic" and your indoor gowing experience is very very useful for me. Thank you for keeping posting!

I used only paper towels in this particular case because the seeds were mouldy since the beginning (I could smell it). To prevent them more getting mouldy I dipped them from time to time in look warm water. But I am still pessimistic with these seeds, they don’t seem to be fresh, and even the germinated seed may have not enough vigour …

[Pal Meir]

No news is good/bad (?) news … Baby N°1501 (seed 10) is sleeping, but as it seems still alive. (The numbers are the seed numbers of the pic above.)

[Mohsen]

No news is good/bad (?) news … Baby N°1501 (seed 10) is sleeping, but as it seems still alive. (The numbers are the seed numbers of the pic above.)

Nice Pal

Are you covering the top of the seeds with another wet Paper Towel?

[Pal Meir]

No news is good/bad (?) news … Baby N°1501 (seed 10) is sleeping, but as it seems still alive. (The numbers are the seed numbers of the pic above.)

Nice Pal

Are you covering the top of the seeds with another wet Paper Towel?

Yes, I cover the seeds very loosely with a moist paper towel. When the germinated seed gets a little stronger I will pot it separately.

[Pal Meir]

At least the hairs are growing …

[Mohsen]

At least the hairs are growing …

Pal, now you can be sure that  you have a male one and he  is getting ready for "Movember"

[edric]

Great work Pal, Ed

[Pal Meir]

And after 40 days the 2nd BABY! (From seed #6; operculum still attached.)

[Pal Meir]

And here a little bit palm morphology:

Baby N°1502 has still its operculum attached, and baby N°1501 is expanding its cotyledonary sheath for the outcoming radicle. (The other five seeds are still sleeping.)

[Mohsen]

Congrats Pal, the seeds shape seem different though and the 2nd one is less hairy for sure

[Pal Meir]

Congrats Pal, the seeds shape seem different though and the 2nd one is less hairy for sure

I hope one is a girl and the other a boy, so I can make many seeds in the future, sell them to RPS, become very rich, and make a journey to the Seychelles or New Caledonia …

[Kai]

Sweet!

[Charles Wychgel]

I might have some seed for you Pal, my pair is flowering for the second time ; first time was a nono

Left the male, right the female with the spicate inflorescence

Edited November 4, 2015 by Charles Wychgel
adding a photograph

[Charles Wychgel]

The happy couple

[Pal Meir]

Hello Charles, they are looking phantastic (maybe a little too much sun, a problem I don’t have here in Germany)! And you have both: ♀ and ♂! So YOU can become a millionaire selling tons of seeds.  Did you grow them also from seed?

[gyuseppe]

The happy couple

Dear Charles
I did not know that in our garden there were also these chamaedorea!

 

[Charles Wychgel]

Hello Charles, they are looking phantastic (maybe a little too much sun, a problem I don’t have here in Germany)! And you have both: ♀ and ♂! So YOU can become a millionaire selling tons of seeds.  Did you grow them also from seed?

From seed.......no patience nor skill for that Pal, just bought some nice size plants from Markus Jonda in 2012!!!!

Dear Charles
I did not know that in our garden there were also these chamaedorea

 

It is in a remote corner Gyuseppe and I have sort of forgotten it; I do forget more and more these days, must be the weather?

[Pal Meir]

An update of the morphology of baby N°1501:

[Pal Meir]

… and after 45 days the 3rd baby N°1503 from the smallest seed #7:

[Pippo]

Hello Palm

In March 2015 after 6 month, 3 of 10 seeds was germinated. Meanwhile they get the 3rd leaf. It's one of my favourite Palm.

[Pal Meir]

Hello Palm

In March 2015 after 6 month, 3 of 10 seeds was germinated. Meanwhile they get the 3rd leaf. It's one of my favourite Palm.

Very sweet! Good luck and please send an update when your Tuerckheims have all three leaves unfolded. I hope my seeds won’t become rotten or mouldy … When my 1st baby grows it 1st plumule I will set it also into a pot.

[Pal Meir]

And the 1st baby 18 days since germination (it is actually growing!):

[Jos Mannaart]

Hello Pal,

 

Did you call Silke from RPS? I am pretty sure that she will replace after seeing your foto's or even after calling.

Reason for your late delivery can be because of her holiday in september. I sent email that time and get autoresponder with that message.

[Pal Meir]

2 hours ago, Jos Mannaart said:

Hello Pal,

 

Did you call Silke from RPS? I am pretty sure that she will replace after seeing your foto's or even after calling.

Reason for your late delivery can be because of her holiday in september. I sent email that time and get autoresponder with that message.

The money was already debited on Sept. 03, but I received the ten seeds only on Sept. 23. The following three seeds were already rotten when I had got them: #3 and #5 with totally rotten and mouldy endosperm, #4 with already sprouted and rotten embryo, a loss of 18.48 Euro = almost 20 US$.

[Jos Mannaart]

Simply give them a phone call.

I got replaced for my complaine aswell and that was not realy to blame on RPS.

They broke during transport and risk of transport is most of the time for the buyer.

Germinaited seeds with broken root came in. But get replacement after their holiday, so  no loss at all.

I am realy quit sure that if you give them a call they will replace yours.

[foxtail]

On 11/7/2015, 10:48:39, Pal Meir said:

… and after 45 days the 3rd baby N°1503 from the smallest seed #7:

Congrats!!!! This one looks creepy

[Pal Meir]

As the radicle was getting longer I potted the seedling N°1501 into a mix of fine coir (Kokohum) and pine bark (2-8mm). — The seedling N°1502 too shows a healthily growing cotyledonary sheath and radicle: