Best Fertilizer for Palms

[Palmerum]

Yes I know it depends on the soil analysis, my cultivars are located on 

PH 5.0 

K 0.35

Ca 9.73

Mg 3.22

P 5.50

Fe 87

Cu 15.75

Zn 2.10

Mn 92.25

Thanks for the input!

[palmsOrl]

I would also be interested in finding out more about how Palmtalk members fertilize their palms.  I know there have been threads on this before.  I have just been buying bags of your basic 8-4-8 (even this isn't cheap in the volume I need, 40lb bags are $20, and I need at least 6 to fertilize the entire garden/yard once), since the fertilizers for "palms" at the big box stores have a middle number of only "1".  It seems to work fairly well, but as mentioned, is kind of expensive and I really don't know how often I should be applying it, especially when we get repeated heavy rains.  If money weren't an issue, I would just buy the six bags and apply to the whole yard every month and maybe every other month from Nov-Mar.  With my coconuts, since they need to gain some size and fast, I have been applying heavily every month and they have responded well, with no burn on a single one.  The time release stuff is (even more) expensive and I guess I have limited faith in their ability to deliver each nutrient over the amount of time promised.  I'm not going to spend $500 to fertilize my entire garden one time (of course this would actually need to be done at least twice per year, even with the time release, I assume).

[Cindy Adair]

So for contrast , I have never had soil from anywhere on my farm analyzed. 

I think my ex may have used some fertilizer stakes for palms on a very few he planted over the last 8 years, but maybe one box of fertilizer spikes total!

I have fertilized nothing in the ground!

This farm has been grown for at least two decades organically and the only fertilizer I have used has been in the potting mix for seedlings where I take whatever brand is in stock at the box store.

So I am sure my palms would love to be fed and maybe if I knew more I would see signs of deficiencies but for now I am ok with what nature is doing on its own with all the organic matter allowed to decompose everywhere and recycle.

Please feel free to let me know when anyone sees signs of starvation on any of my posts and maybe I will do better! 

Meanwhile I will read threads like this and learn what I should be doing!

And try to stay healthy so I can live long enough to see my underfed palms grow up?

[sonoranfans]

An osmotic membrane based time release is far more efficient in delivering the nutrients -including micros- than the 8-4-8 vigoro in floridas wet climate and sandy soils.  If it doesnt rain and you have clay based soil the use of such fertilizer is not an advantage.   Florikan osmotic release time delivery profiles were studied at University of Florida gainesville horticultural college, the stuff delivers all nutrients very well over time.  I started out with vigoro palm food and couldn't keep up with K and the micro nutrient demands of some palm species.  One rain and almost all that non time release potassium is just gone, into the water shed.  I use florikan palm special formulated for florida soils(8-2-12 plus micros) and feeding ~65-70 palms up to 30' tall requires less than half the poundage while keeping the palms much better looking and is needed only 2x a year(march/sept).  Rain doesnt matter, it cant rinse the fertilizer (the osmotic delivery)  away.  I have zero potassium deficiency(loss of green at leaflet tips first) since I started this regimen.  Potassium is the most difficult to deliver time release wise because it is easily the most soluble nutrient.  Potassium is also the most common deficiency in palms in florida.  And on the positive side you use way less fertilizer meaning far less makes it into the waterways.  Also we have high phos soils in florida so the phos number should be low or you can inhibit nitrogen uptake.  I use 4-5 40 lb bags a year, with probably 20-25 lbs of that on two juvenile cuban copernicias(potassium hogs).

Sandy soils dont contain significant ion exchange capacity to hold nutrients, so mulching is a continuing war on that front.  I measured my own soil pH @ 6.0+/- ( I am a chemist by training, pH in sandy soil is mostly set by rainwater), and I use garden lime and humic acid(micro nutrient chelator) 2x a year also to help make nutrients bioavailable in the soil.

Edited September 17, 2015 by sonoranfans

[willo68]

Hey Tom, Where do you buy that Florikan? Thanks

[John Case]

Al,

 

Assuming that the PH of 5 is the Ph of the soil, I might be concerned about the acidity of the soil,...or did I misconstrue what you were referencing?

[Palmerum]

John,

At that specific moment it was soil PH 5

Feb dry season here last rain Dec, 3 months before

Edited September 18, 2015 by Palmerum

[sonoranfans]

Will,

I buy it at big earth landscape supply in palmetto FL.  Its called "palm special" with 8-2-12 macro ratios.  I would check landscape supplies near you.  they generally sell to stores that work with contractors.  there is a big earth in tampa, I didnt find one in orlando.  Its about 55 per 50 lb bag but I understand some folks here can get a better price by getting together for a large order.

[palmislandRandy]

Will, See if their's a Howard's fertilizer distributor near you. I use their 8-2-12 w/macros Palm Special with fantastic results & less than $30 a bag. I also use K-mag 0-0-22 pretty heavily.

 

 

-Randy

[DoomsDave]

As should be apparent, the right answer for Miami might be wrong one for Maui, or Sydney or Hong Kong.

Knowledge of local conditions is crucial. In general, I've found most soils I've gardened in to not have wacky nutes, i.e., crazy combos or omissions of nutrients.

Here in La Habra, I almost never use chemical fertilizers of any kind. Instead, I mulch like crazy and bury all the dead junk that my palms produce, as well as fireplace ashes (also from palm leaves), spoiled food, dead critters, etc. Every time I remove something, or did holes, I take the time to add something, unless it's going to be a critical support for a structure.

The exception is if I've moved something to another location and I'm trying to get the roots to grow in. In that case, I'll use something like 16 16 16 "rose food" or 15 30 15 Miracle Grow, which help root growth. (For the love of dieties, humanity and sanity, don't use Sulphate of Ammonia, 21 0 0.)

One wacky nute problem I recall is too much boron in the soil in the area around Las Vegas, to the point that the soil is toxic for many plants, which requires either leaching or bringing in new soil

In a place like California, where the soil is generally fertile, most fertility problems I've encountered stem more from poor drainage, or toxic objects buried in the soil (particularly badly cured concrete and cement) than actual nute problems. Cement and the like can raise the PH of soil so high in their immediate vicinity that not much will grow there, except for plants that like conditions like that, e.g., Brahea decumbens.

 

[Josh-O]

Best palms plus 13-5-8

50 lb bag for about 45.00-50.00

works like a charm

[trioderob]

the zoo uses palm plus too

 

do you like my "fat bastard" avatar ?

[yabazid]

I like lutz spikes! 

Also use any slow release granular. Miracle grow palm fertilizer is what I use

also osmocote 14-14-14 

[Josh-O]

 osmocote  can be a bit on the pricey side

[Danilopez89]

Best palms plus 13-5-8

50 lb bag for about 45.00-50.00

works like a charm

that's what I've been using since I bought my first palms. The nursery where I bought my first palms said that's all they use. 

But I noticed that their Manganese is lower on the last bag I bought. I'd like to know if there is anything else available that is similar to this or better. I was told by a palm grower in SD that he buys "apex" brand fertilizer and that its the best he's ever used. P.S. I hope I didn't get that fert name wrong, it's been several years since he told me.

 

[Josh-O]

If you find something better please post. I'm always looking for something better if the price is right

[Missi]

Bump 

[PalmTreeDude]

I used palm gain and it worked well, for palms in general. I was not going after a specific nutrient. 

[Missi]

I need controlled release for in-ground palms in my fast-draining Florida "soil". I'd LOVE to get Florikan's Florikote (8-2-12), but with shipping, that would make it $90 per 50 lb. bag. 

Need opinions on LESCO's palm and tropical ornamental (13-3-13)?

[IHB1979]

1 hour ago, Missi said:

I need controlled release for in-ground palms in my fast-draining Florida "soil". I'd LOVE to get Florikan's Florikote (8-2-12), but with shipping, that would make it $90 per 50 lb. bag. 

Need opinions on LESCO's palm and tropical ornamental (13-3-13)?

I've been using the Lesco brand for several years with good results.

[pogobob]

Beer caps and pee

[tropicbreeze]

I think the most efficient and safest way to fertilise is to first pay for a proper soil test. Without that you can throw away a lot of money on nutrients you don't need or that might put out the balance in your soil and be counter productive. There's a risk that some elements could be increased to toxic levels, or even bind up other essential elements so they're not available.

What you pay for a soil test would most likely be recouped quickly from savings by not buying products which would be a waste or at worst detrimental to your plants. And of course nutrients not used by the plants end up in the waterways, another whole issue of its own.

[GottmitAlex]

[Kris]

More information on the above shown Miracle Gro for palm trees :

https://www.miraclegro.com/en-us/products/plant-food-care/miracle-gro-shake-n-feed-palm-plant-food

Spikes :

https://www.miraclegro.com/en-us/products/plant-food-care/miracle-gro-fruit-citrus-plant-food-spikes

.

 

[Missi]

11 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I've used that once because it was easy to find. Wasn't thrilled with the results. You like it?

[Missi]

Can someone explain to me, or share links, the need to add sulfur, or whatever, to the FL sandy soil before fertilizing? I just spent a fortune on Florikan 8-2-12 "palm special" and shipping and want to ensure my plants get every single benefit of it.

@sonoranfans, anyone?

[Moose]

you need to mulch the crap out of your palms. o

Organic matter in the soil will absorb your minerals from the fertilizer and keep them available around the root zone longer

 

 

[Missi]

1 hour ago, Moose said:

you need to mulch the crap out of your palms. o

Organic matter in the soil will absorb your minerals from the fertilizer and keep them available around the root zone longer

 

 

I plan to put down pine fines or mini pine bark nuggets.

[Missi]

A friend suggested using Tiger brand Sulphur when I fertilize: http://www.tigersul.com/products/sulphur/ Not sure which one though. What types of sulphur do y'all FL gardeners use?

[sonoranfans]

I have never used sulfur in Fl as my soils are already slightly acidic.  Sulfur degrades to sulfuric acid slowly helping shift the the soil acidity from alkaline.  If you are mostly sand, you donot have strong alkaline soil and don't need to shift the pH.  Actually copernicia like it a little alkaline, one of the reasons they grow well in miami without as much attention. 

What Moose said about adding mulch is critical for us sandy soil gardeners.  You need to build up the ion exchange capacity of your soil so nutrients are more available over larger root zones. In sandy soil water drains rapidly and goes straight down and dries quickly.  A well balanced soil will allow a slow lateral wicking to wet greater root zones.  Ideally, you put down digestible mulch that becomes part of the soil in depth through time, it will be your cation exchange capacity.  Mulching like this is an every year thing as every year organics are consumed by bacteria in our soils.  For your bailey I would advise you to remove surface sand and grass and put down 1-2" of topsoil, then follow with mulch and add florikan.  The topsoil will fast start you cation exchange capacity so it can hold the fertilizer better.   I prefer the metaleuca mulch over pine bark as it goes into the ground better(doesnt float away in a deluge) like pine mulch and does a good job of locking out weeds.  When I used pine bark the rain seemed to wash much of it away.  I am seeing good in depth organic content with the metaleuca after 4 years.  Some of the growers on this board in SW FL buy the off label florikan in bulk for ~30/bag.   You shouldn't need much for those little baileys at this time. You might message mike evans and see if you can piggy back on his order for the off label florikan.   Mike also has a great nursery in SW pinellas with some nice selection and good prices on seedling and small juvenile palms.  

[Missi]

Dang! I was assuming sand IS alkaline! Thank you for opening my mind. I really do need to get my soil tested but the extension office is closed no thanks to Irma tearing its roof off.

[Missi]

2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I have never used sulfur in Fl as my soils are already slightly acidic.  Sulfur degrades to sulfuric acid slowly helping shift the the soil acidity from alkaline.  If you are mostly sand, you donot have strong alkaline soil and don't need to shift the pH.  Actually copernicia like it a little alkaline, one of the reasons they grow well in miami without as much attention. 

What Moose said about adding mulch is critical for us sandy soil gardeners.  You need to build up the ion exchange capacity of your soil so nutrients are more available over larger root zones. In sandy soil water drains rapidly and goes straight down and dries quickly.  A well balanced soil will allow a slow lateral wicking to wet greater root zones.  Ideally, you put down digestible mulch that becomes part of the soil in depth through time, it will be your cation exchange capacity.  Mulching like this is an every year thing as every year organics are consumed by bacteria in our soils.  For your bailey I would advise you to remove surface sand and grass and put down 1-2" of topsoil, then follow with mulch and add florikan.  The topsoil will fast start you cation exchange capacity so it can hold the fertilizer better.   I prefer the metaleuca mulch over pine bark as it goes into the ground better(doesnt float away in a deluge) like pine mulch and does a good job of locking out weeds.  When I used pine bark the rain seemed to wash much of it away.  I am seeing good in depth organic content with the metaleuca after 4 years.  Some of the growers on this board in SW FL buy the off label florikan in bulk for ~30/bag.   You shouldn't need much for those little baileys at this time. You might message mike evans and see if you can piggy back on his order for the off label florikan.   Mike also has a great nursery in SW pinellas with some nice selection and good prices on seedling and small juvenile palms.  

I so value your detailed guidance and sharing your experiences and will use the technique you describe above. 

If the off brand of Florikan is LESCO, I can get that at a landscape supply store that is open to the public here. I just don't understand why it's 13-3-13 instead of 8-2-12.

[Missi]

Got a big thing of Roundup yesterday. Already have a dethatcher rake.

Just picked these two up at lunch (sulphur for acid-lovers), plus Florikan 8-2-12 on the way, many bags on mulch and top soil will be purchased this weekend and I think I'm set! I'm exhausted just thinking about all the work!

[GottmitAlex]

11 hours ago, Missi said:

I've used that once because it was easy to find. Wasn't thrilled with the results. You like it?

I do. In fact, the one at home depot contains compost.  It has worked wonders on my coconuts.

I originally began feeding them chemical fertilizer, not slow release. I did not notice any advantages with the chemical fertilizer. I think I can attribute it to the soil being pure sand. The liquid fertilizer just went through it. However this miracle-gro slow release, has helped them grow quite nicely. Especially my golden Malayan Dwarf.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by GottmitAlex

[sonoranfans]

6 hours ago, Missi said:

I so value your detailed guidance and sharing your experiences and will use the technique you describe above. 

If the off brand of Florikan is LESCO, I can get that at a landscape supply store that is open to the public here. I just don't understand why it's 13-3-13 instead of 8-2-12.

On 1/23/2018, 8:07:55, Missi said:

I need controlled release for in-ground palms in my fast-draining Florida "soil". I'd LOVE to get Florikan's Florikote (8-2-12), but with shipping, that would make it $90 per 50 lb. bag. 

Need opinions on LESCO's palm and tropical ornamental (13-3-13)?

 

On 1/23/2018, 8:07:55, Missi said:

I need controlled release for in-ground palms in my fast-draining Florida "soil". I'd LOVE to get Florikan's Florikote (8-2-12), but with shipping, that would make it $90 per 50 lb. bag. 

Need opinions on LESCO's palm and tropical ornamental (13-3-13)?

nope Lesco is not off label florikan, its sulfur coated time release and its not nearly as effective in its timed release in my experience.  

I tried that formulation of lesco for a year, it didn't address my bailey nutrient deficiencies.  the off label can onlh be bought in bulk as far as I know, 20 50 lb bags or more.  There may be a store down on pine island that sells smaller amounts.  I heard about it a few years ago from Larry Joliffe(spockyVR6 on this board).  

 

[Kris]

This topic is getting interesting.And i have a question.Why is all your palm based fertilizers have less 'N' nitrogen and "Phosphorus in the package.And those available in my country is what our farmers use and all farming and agriculture products are subsidised and they are mostly in crystal or granule form. The N-P-K fertz here are usually 10-10-10. or 15-15-15. or 17-17-17.or 20-20-20. i,e the ratio are flat/same. Iam using it the results are good. the soil is basically claye.So the need for Micro/Macro nutrients did not arise as of now.But only thing i notice in phoenix palms they push leaves throughout the year but do not flower or fruit at all.

So i have started using micro & macro nutrients from this new year but iam waiting for the results.

Any thoughts..

Love,

Kris.

 

[sonoranfans]

Kris, yes the ideal formulations vary by soil/climate.  Florida's magic number is 8-2-12.  the potassium is high because it rinses from our sandy soils quickly and we have lots of summer(warm season) rains to deplete it.  The phosphate is low because we have high phosphorus soils in florida, the biggest phosphate mine in the US is in central florida..  Too much phos in soil can inhibit uptake of other nutrients so 8-2-12 is a florida formulation that has been used in horticulture in Fl.  Our high drainage soils and wet summer challenges the time release fertilizers more than moisture retaining soils in drier areas. I had no issue growing palms with vigoro in arizona's clay soil time release didn't need to be effective, it worked fine in growing some really robust queens and sabals.  Clay has a large cation exchange capacity for storing bio available nutrients in the soil.  Florida is blessed with warmth and rain and often with humidity but its cursed with the sandy, infertile soils.  And the high heat means rapid digenstion(consumption) of organic matter by bacteria.   So if you have really sandy soils you struggle to maintain cation exchange capacity and the best time release fertilizer is needed to maintain the desired nutrient levels.  Sp theideal fertilizer matter more in some area than others..  If you have really good cation exchange capacity, you don't need the best timed release fertilizer. 

[Moose]

Nitrogen is not needed in large quantities in Florida soils. 8% is just fine, slow release better. Excess nitrogen ends up in our ground water and/or waterways by run off. We get so much rain which contains nitrogen attached as an ion to the H2O molecule. Potassium is the macronutrient we lack in ours soils. K-Mag is the mineral supplement that helps our palms the most. Soil rich in organic material also keeps boron deficiencies at bay. You can have lack of boron in sandy soil, especially during the rainy season. Sulfur not needed.

 

Just my opinion  

[Kris]

Thanks Tom and Ronald.

[Missi]

Thanks, all, for the additional info! Please keep it coming...