Jubaea X Butia F3 growth in SE NC

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I purchased this Jubaea x Buita from Garry's Nursery in New Bern NC, in May of 2015. I mostly bare rooted it before planting, due to the extreme difference in soil texture in the nice porous potting media and my heavy clay. I've had to learn the hard way about amending clay soil, or creating mini-bogs out of large root balls and potting media. From what I can gather this is at least an F3 from seeds from the late Dr. Wilcox's palm. Since my family and friends think I'm crazy if I excitedly talk about my F3 hybrid Jubutia finally pushing a new spear, I'll stick to posting photo updates to it's progress here where there might be more interest.

post-13669-0-47058500-1441049907_thumb.j

This plant barely grew for nearly 2 months (I marked the spear, and it moved less than an inch a week). I don't know if it was angry from the brutal bare root treatment, or the extremely hot July. However now that it has settled in and things have cooled off a bit, it has opened 2 new leaves and is working on a third since the beginning of August.

I will post updated photos as it grows (and the weeds take over the lawn)

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It's awesome Joe! I share your excitement with palms and watching them grow. Don't let anyone take that away from you. Some just don't understand. Haha :) post updates soon.

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It looks like it wasn't happy in the pot.. judging from the color change of the leaves. Whatever you did it worked.. it looks great. How is Gary's palm doing did you get a chance to see it ?

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Thanks. It was a bit yellow overall in the pot, and now is slowly greening up with some ferts. I have also been fighting a bit of mealybugs and scale causing some yellow spotting on the older leaves. I didn't want to break out big gun pesticides, since there have been a fair amount of ladybugs doing the work for me. I have mostly just used the hose on the undersides of the leaves, and tried to kill the ant farmers with a little plastic bait station. It all seems to have helped. The color change isn't as dramatic as it appears in the pics, the second one was taken just after it rained with a bright overcast sky when everything green outside always looks amazing. I didn't get a chance to look around at all while I was at Garry's Nursery. It is a 2 hour drive from my house, and they are only open to 5 on the weekdays and have limited call ahead hours on the weekend. I was planning on taking a day off from work to drive up there, but managed to call one Saturday morning at 9:30 when they would be open to around noon. I basically showed up with about 10 minutes to spare, agonized over which of the the ~10 hybrids to buy (of course liked the two that were flagged as sold the best), and left so the woman helping me could close before tropical storm Ana hit. I drove home in the outer rain bands, and planted it during high enough winds that I had to tie it down.

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A new development, the newest growth on this palm is now emerging blueish.  Oddly I'm not that excited about this, as I specifically picked out the most green plant so it would be as "Jubaea-y" as possible.  As long as this palm keeps growing and lives up to its giant potential, I'll be happy.

 

F3blue.thumb.jpg.869a9633a4f04c901e71d82

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Nice..   Do you think the greener form is hardier? 

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My color preference was mostly just so it looked different to the casual observer than the other pindos in my yard, and looked more like a Jub to me.

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A new development, the newest growth on this palm is now emerging blueish.  Oddly I'm not that excited about this, as I specifically picked out the most green plant so it would be as "Jubaea-y" as possible.  As long as this palm keeps growing and lives up to its giant potential, I'll be happy.

 

F3blue.thumb.jpg.869a9633a4f04c901e71d82

Love that color! :wub:

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JubxBut_grow2015.thumb.jpg.528fb7600ba3c

Filling in and showing the "blueness" from a distance now.  The mulch ring keeps growing too...

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wow, the color changing is very sharp! nice palm indeed

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It looks more like a Butia x Jubaea vs Jubaea x Butia. JxB looks more like Jubaea. 

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Looks good Joe, I have two JxB F2 one is solid green about the same size as yours and the other one much smaller turned blue right away on me. Looking forward to see how yours looks next growing season.  Great pictures!

Edited by Palm crazy
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1 hour ago, Brad Mondel said:

It looks more like a Butia x Jubaea vs Jubaea x Butia. JxB looks more like Jubaea. 

I am not a plant geneticist, but here is my bio nerd take on this.  It is at least an F3 from a suspected Jubaea X Butia (descendant from the "Jubaea" at Fairchild, which was supposedly grown from a Jubaea seed).  So depending how along the way it was pollinated (outcrossed or selfed), it is mostly (7/8ish) Butia DNA.  The benefits from having the Jubaea  as the seed parent 3 generations back is from the  cytoplasmic inheritance.  All of this DNA is inherited from the "mother" seed parent of the cross.  This is probably why a JxB looks more like a J than a BxJ.  So even 3 or 4 generations out,  this plant should still display the traits that are influenced by the cytoplasmic inheritance from the Jubaea.  I think somewhere I remember reading that Dr. Wilcox suspected this extranuclear DNA to play a role in trunk diameter and overall size in this cross.   

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Thanks for the information. This explains why it looks the way it does and why F1's look the way they do. Hopefully more of that Jubaea dna will express itself but so far it's an awesome palm.

But how does a BxJ have the Jubaea type trunk? If this is true wouldn't BxJ have a Butia type trunk? 

Here's a BxJ trunk I took a picture of in Los Angeles: 

image.thumb.jpg.7838c881a2262b7fc9f803f5

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My JxB

20151219_162959_zpsfefcmtzv.jpg

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One year in the ground update.  

I have high hopes for a growth spurt this summer now that it is hopefully established.  It also has a new neighbor in the background, a (BxJ)xJ.

 

jbxbutmay2016.thumb.jpg.25a540bd69e2716d

Edited by Joe NC
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It looks a lot like my JxB F2, just more blue than mine. But the leaves look the same as mine. 

It looking very nice! 

Edited by Palm crazy
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Update:

It is not committed to being totally blue....  The new spring growth is/was very blue, but as the fronds age they fade green.  My thoughts are the waxy bloom that causes the blue color just washes away particularly easy on this plant?  It has been wet, hot, and really wet this summer2016.thumb.jpg.009cf5d2733fd059f5dcaa4b3.     

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On 8/19/2016, 7:05:52, Joe NC said:

Update:

It is not committed to being totally blue....  The new spring growth is/was very blue, but as the fronds age they fade green.  My thoughts are the waxy bloom that causes the blue color just washes away particularly easy on this plant?  It has been wet, hot, and really wet this summer2016.thumb.jpg.009cf5d2733fd059f5dcaa4b3.     

its starting to enter the chunky phase :)

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On 8/23/2016, 12:41:25, Josh-O said:

its starting to enter the chunky phase :)

Bring on the chunk!  I am looking forward to it dominating this part of the yard.

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2015‎ ‎11‎:‎52‎:‎57‎, Joe NC said:

I am not a plant geneticist, but here is my bio nerd take on this.  It is at least an F3 from a suspected Jubaea X Butia (descendant from the "Jubaea" at Fairchild, which was supposedly grown from a Jubaea seed).  So depending how along the way it was pollinated (outcrossed or selfed), it is mostly (7/8ish) Butia DNA.  The benefits from having the Jubaea  as the seed parent 3 generations back is from the  cytoplasmic inheritance.  All of this DNA is inherited from the "mother" seed parent of the cross.  This is probably why a JxB looks more like a J than a BxJ.  So even 3 or 4 generations out,  this plant should still display the traits that are influenced by the cytoplasmic inheritance from the Jubaea.  I think somewhere I remember reading that Dr. Wilcox suspected this extranuclear DNA to play a role in trunk diameter and overall size in this cross.   

Can you dumb it down please..  lol..   I know this has been asked before in the past..  but which hybrids exhibit self-cleaning?  Do you think one might be able to use this as a trait in identification?

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1 hour ago, SailorBold said:

Can you dumb it down please..  lol..   I know this has been asked before in the past..  but which hybrids exhibit self-cleaning?  Do you think one might be able to use this as a trait in identification?

My experience actually growing these hybrids is fairly limited (see above post, lol), but I have tried to read as much I can find about them.  From what I can gather, first generation hybrid (F1) palms with a pure Jubaea as the seed parent "mom" (JxB F1)  seem to be the ones with the nicely self cleaning trunks.  The PDF in the link below details the differences between JxB and BxJ.  

Hodel 2011  

As for the cytoplasmic inheritance part. Even though a JxB and BxJ each get half of their genes (DNA inside the cell nucleus) from a Jubaea and Butia, the ones with the Jubaea as the "mom" look more like a Jubaea. The thought is this can be explained by the cytoplasmic DNA (DNA outside the cell nucleus) inheritance that comes from the "mother" plant.  Chloroplasts and mitochondria have their own DNA and get inherited directly from the "mother" in the egg cell.  So all the cytoplasmic DNA in a JxB is from a Jubaea, and all the cytoplasmic DNA in a BxJ is from a Butia. 

The neat part is.....the great great great great great great great grandchild of a JXB (F10 hybrid), even if each time was always pollinated by a Butia, still has only the cytoplasmic DNA of a Jubaea.

It should be interesting to see how some of the back crosses like (BxJ)XJ turn out as far as trunk self cleaning goes. 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2016‎ ‎8‎:‎44‎:‎30‎, Joe NC said:

My experience actually growing these hybrids is fairly limited (see above post, lol), but I have tried to read as much I can find about them.  From what I can gather, first generation hybrid (F1) palms with a pure Jubaea as the seed parent "mom" (JxB F1)  seem to be the ones with the nicely self cleaning trunks.  The PDF in the link below details the differences between JxB and BxJ.  

Hodel 2011  

As for the cytoplasmic inheritance part. Even though a JxB and BxJ each get half of their genes (DNA inside the cell nucleus) from a Jubaea and Butia, the ones with the Jubaea as the "mom" look more like a Jubaea. The thought is this can be explained by the cytoplasmic DNA (DNA outside the cell nucleus) inheritance that comes from the "mother" plant.  Chloroplasts and mitochondria have their own DNA and get inherited directly from the "mother" in the egg cell.  So all the cytoplasmic DNA in a JxB is from a Jubaea, and all the cytoplasmic DNA in a BxJ is from a Butia. 

The neat part is.....the great great great great great great great grandchild of a JXB (F10 hybrid), even if each time was always pollinated by a Butia, still has only the cytoplasmic DNA of a Jubaea.

It should be interesting to see how some of the back crosses like (BxJ)XJ turn out as far as trunk self cleaning goes. 

 

Thanks for explaining it further!

Here is a pic off of Palmpedia showing Jubaea and an alleged Jubaea x butia...  It appears that it is even more massive than an enormous Jubaea.. but is retaining leaf bases also.

Will be very neat to see how they progress...

 

jb.jpg

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The lows and amount of time below freezing this month did some serious damage... It was totally unprotected.

Jan 2018               Temp. (°F)          

Day        high       avg         low                                        

1              32           26           19                          

2              35           26           17          

3              35           26           17                                          

4              35           30           24                          

5              35           25           15                          

6              31           21           11          

7              33           23           12                          

8              54           34           14                          

9              68           51           34                          

10           65           50           35                          

11             63           59           55

I'll post photos, but most of the plant looks and feels almost freeze dried.  It's still green, but it's not looking promising.  

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Very interested in seeing pictures. There is an exposed, but lightly protected pindo in my area and Im just being negative and assuming its dead. But I hope to be wrong. 

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5 hours ago, Joe NC said:

The lows and amount of time below freezing this month did some serious damage... It was totally unprotected.

Jan 2018               Temp. (°F)          

 

Day        high       avg         low                                        

 

1              32           26           19                          

 

2              35           26           17          

 

3              35           26           17                                          

 

4              35           30           24                          

 

5              35           25           15                          

 

6              31           21           11          

 

7              33           23           12                          

 

8              54           34           14                          

 

9              68           51           34                          

 

10           65           50           35                          

 

11             63           59           55

I'll post photos, but most of the plant looks and feels almost freeze dried.  It's still green, but it's not looking promising.  

That's some really extreme cold :(  I'm assuming that you had several wet days in that stretch as well?  Maybe some snow or freezing rain?  Hope it pulls through!

Jon

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1 hour ago, Fusca said:

That's some really extreme cold :(  I'm assuming that you had several wet days in that stretch as well?  Maybe some snow or freezing rain?  Hope it pulls through!

Jon

5a52b56fcfb6f_IMAG0509(2).thumb.jpg.1410

Rain then freezing rain starting on the afternoon of the 3rd, which turned into snow that night.  Nice wet crowns, then nearly a week below freezing with snow on the ground the whole time.  There was ice on the tidal creeks around here and enough ice on retention ponds to skate on (not that anybody was out on the ice except for this dumb yankee transplant) .  Maybe the only good news from the snow cover is that it insulated the ground and kept the ground from freezing.    

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OUCH!

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