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Bismarckia Nobilis and Roystonea Regia evolution at 39ºN latitude (Spain)


Alicante

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That climate data for Ceuta is incorrect, according to the AEMET website. Also the data only goes back to 2003, so the averages on their website only cover 7 years from 2003 to 2010...

http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=5000C&k=ceu

Nope, it's not incorrect. That's why it's different, because in AEMET only appears 7 years. :winkie:

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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That climate data for Ceuta is incorrect, according to the AEMET website. Also the data only goes back to 2003, so the averages on their website only cover 7 years from 2003 to 2010...

http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=5000C&k=ceu

Nope, it's not incorrect. That's why it's different, because in AEMET only appears 7 years. :winkie:

It is incorrect. Someone has put in figures on Wikipedia (the weather box which you posted) & linked to the source of those figures as the AEMET website, which are different. The weather box was also changed on the Ceuta Wikipedia page from the old weather station in Ceuta, to the new station which only opened in 2003.

Malta - USDA Zone 11a

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That climate data for Ceuta is incorrect, according to the AEMET website. Also the data only goes back to 2003, so the averages on their website only cover 7 years from 2003 to 2010...

http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=5000C&k=ceu

Nope, it's not incorrect. That's why it's different, because in AEMET only appears 7 years. :winkie:

It is incorrect. Someone has put in figures on Wikipedia (the weather box which you posted) & linked to the source of those figures as the AEMET website, which are different. The weather box was also changed on the Ceuta Wikipedia page from the old weather station in Ceuta, to the new station which only opened in 2003.

No it's not, the old station is from Monte Hacho, which is a lot colder and in altitude, not at sea level. Also there is only 7 years, that's why it's a mixture between the AEMET and another climate data.

But... whatever you say... :asleep: even with the Aemet and non Aemet chart it still has the highest low winter temperatures in Europe...

Edited by pRoeZa*

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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But you are missing the point, the data stated was made up, it was not using the figures stated on the AEMET website... And even using the correct figures it is only 7 years worth of data, not enough for standard temperature averages...

Not that it makes any difference as Ceuta is in Africa & not Europe :interesting:

Malta - USDA Zone 11a

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But you are missing the point, the data stated was made up, it was not using the figures stated on the AEMET website... And even using the correct figures it is only 7 years worth of data, not enough for standard temperature averages...

Not that it makes any difference as Ceuta is in Africa & not Europe :interesting:

I don't understand what is your point in all of this. Do you know something about Ceuta? :asleep:

Not enough for standard temperature averages? Who says that? Well, it's maded with another 30 year old climate chart. Anyways, it's at the same latitude as Malta and I've said before that it's in Africa :interesting:

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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I do not quite understand the debate about the climate. Judging from cultivated palms it is quite clear that some parts of southern Spain are really the warmest parts of continental Europe. Is there any doubt about it? I mean that a frost free, mild to warm winter may be found also in other southern parts of continental Europe but in Spain mild to warm winter is combined also with hot summer. Maybe, just maybe, similar combination can be found also in coastal Cyprus, but latter can not be considered continental Europe. Is it not a long term proof the fact that the ONLY DATE GROVE (say how old, since the Phoenicians or since the Mauritanians? Certainly WAY older than 30 or 50 or 100 years) in Europe can be found in Elche?

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If some climate predictions are correct (low temperatures decreasing, despite the increasing of high temperatures), over the next decades it will be next to impossible to zone push sucessfully.

Anyway, hoping that it wont be inevitable, i am sucessfully zone pushing, at 42ºN, Ovar, Portugal. Last winter was the colder since 2010, with a couple of -2ºC dawns and lots of cold and dry wind events from late january to february.

I was unable to avoid the roystonea regia death. But i am consistently growing bismarckia nobilis and euterpe edulis (and many others surprisingly hard 10a palms).

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I am so confused about Bismarkia. Lots of people say they are 10a only; other cold hardiness assessments indicate down to 22 degrees F (well into 9a). I guess the only way to know if they will grow here (9b/10a borderline), long-term, is to grow them. I have 2 in different parts of the yard.

  • Upvote 1

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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But you are missing the point, the data stated was made up, it was not using the figures stated on the AEMET website... And even using the correct figures it is only 7 years worth of data, not enough for standard temperature averages...

Not that it makes any difference as Ceuta is in Africa & not Europe :interesting:

I don't understand what is your point in all of this. Do you know something about Ceuta? :asleep:

Not enough for standard temperature averages? Who says that? Well, it's maded with another 30 year old climate chart. Anyways, it's at the same latitude as Malta and I've said before that it's in Africa :interesting:

The point is the figures you posted were incorrect, not that hard to understand. And climate averages are based on THIRTY years worth of data, not SEVEN & who says that? All the meteorological agencies in the world, that's who...

And yes Spain has some great climates that can grow many amazing palms, so I don't know why you have to post misleading data & then bring up someone elses climate when anyone questions you (you do this repeatedly) it isn't a competition you know... And you claimed Ceuta had the warmest minimum temperatures in Europe, when it isn't in Europe :interesting:

Malta - USDA Zone 11a

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Ben, in my experience, the cold hardiness of Bismarckia is quite variable. The Bismarck I had at my former parent's house was purchased in 1996-1997, when the species was first becoming available. This specimen was a genetic wimp and the foliage would respond to sub 32F temps about like Veitchias, however, it would always grow out of the damage from temps as low as 24-25F. I think mature specimens in general are solid zone 9b palms, but when the colder winters hit, they will obviously get damaged, so they are not "bullet proof" in 9b, but are worth being widely planted in this zone as a landscape palm.

Driving on I4 from Orlando to Tampa, I noticed a bunch of new municipal planting of bismarcks along the roadway near overpasses. Interestingly, there were a ton planted in the rural areas along the highway between the two cities, but Orlando and the Disney area opted to plant a bunch of Phoenix hybrids instead. I saw just a few Bismarcks planted by the city along I4 near Kissimmee along the south side of an overpass, so maybe they are testing them out to see if they are worth being planted more widely. I actually feel they would do better in the Orlando/Kissimmee heat island areas than out in rural sections in the middle of the state. It will be interesting to see how these do when the next significant freeze affects the area. Downtown Orlando is zone 10a now and I would like to see the city's planting areas replete with bismarcks and royals (not out in places like Clermont, where they will be telephone poles within a few years, especially royals), but in the metro area itself.

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But you are missing the point, the data stated was made up, it was not using the figures stated on the AEMET website... And even using the correct figures it is only 7 years worth of data, not enough for standard temperature averages...

Not that it makes any difference as Ceuta is in Africa & not Europe :interesting:

I don't understand what is your point in all of this. Do you know something about Ceuta? :asleep:

Not enough for standard temperature averages? Who says that? Well, it's maded with another 30 year old climate chart. Anyways, it's at the same latitude as Malta and I've said before that it's in Africa :interesting:

The point is the figures you posted were incorrect, not that hard to understand. And climate averages are based on THIRTY years worth of data, not SEVEN & who says that? All the meteorological agencies in the world, that's who...

And yes Spain has some great climates that can grow many amazing palms, so I don't know why you have to post misleading data & then bring up someone elses climate when anyone questions you (you do this repeatedly) it isn't a competition you know... And you claimed Ceuta had the warmest minimum temperatures in Europe, when it isn't in Europe :interesting:

I don't know why you take so personal everytime it appears a place in Europe with a climate warmer than in Malta you get exalted and you always say that no it's not true, the data is wrong, etc.

This is not the first time. You have to calm down yourself, no one is challenging you here and this is not any climate battle. Also, this thread is for Valencia, not Ceuta.

First you've started saying that the climate chart I've put on the first post is incorrect. Now you say that the Ceuta climate data is incorrect, and also you are saying untrustful things like "oh but it's only 7 years old, that's not enough" while I am saying you for the 100th time that this climate chart is combined by the 7 years of Aemet and 30 years of another climate chart; because the old was from the mountain, not from the city. :asleep:

Those temperatures aren't incorrect. You are the only one saying that they are. Maybe you're angry with them? What did you lost in Ceuta? Now you know more from a Spanish city than a Spaniard?

Ok mate, just whatever you say. I'm tired of arguing with you. And I say it for the last time. It may geographically be in Africa, as I've said before, because it's at the same latitude as Malta :interesting: and a lot of Moroccan cities at lower altitudes are quite colder. For example Tanger is colder than Ceuta; even Casablanca which is about 33ºN is colder and faced frozes, while Ceuta has some envy minimum records, at least for me. Whatever you say...

Please read the title of the thread again, and then stop arguing and stop deviating my thread to another thing which is not Bismarckias and Roystoneas unto climate battles you've started. Thanks and regards.

Edited by pRoeZa*

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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But you are missing the point, the data stated was made up, it was not using the figures stated on the AEMET website... And even using the correct figures it is only 7 years worth of data, not enough for standard temperature averages...

Not that it makes any difference as Ceuta is in Africa & not Europe :interesting:

I don't understand what is your point in all of this. Do you know something about Ceuta? :asleep:

Not enough for standard temperature averages? Who says that? Well, it's maded with another 30 year old climate chart. Anyways, it's at the same latitude as Malta and I've said before that it's in Africa :interesting:

The point is the figures you posted were incorrect, not that hard to understand. And climate averages are based on THIRTY years worth of data, not SEVEN & who says that? All the meteorological agencies in the world, that's who...

And yes Spain has some great climates that can grow many amazing palms, so I don't know why you have to post misleading data & then bring up someone elses climate when anyone questions you (you do this repeatedly) it isn't a competition you know... And you claimed Ceuta had the warmest minimum temperatures in Europe, when it isn't in Europe :interesting:

I don't know why you take so personal everytime it appears a place in Europe with a climate warmer than in Malta you get exalted and you always say that no it's not true, the data is wrong, etc.

This is not the first time. You have to calm down yourself, no one is challenging you here and this is not any climate battle. Also, this thread is for Valencia, not Ceuta.

First you've started saying that the climate chart I've put on the first post is incorrect. Now you say that the Ceuta climate data is incorrect, and also you are saying untrustful things like "oh but it's only 7 years old, that's not enough" while I am saying you for the 100th time that this climate chart is combined by the 7 years of Aemet and 30 years of another climate chart; because the old was from the mountain, not from the city. :asleep:

Those temperatures aren't incorrect. You are the only one saying that they are. Maybe you're angry with them? What did you lost in Ceuta? Now you know more from a Spanish city than a Spaniard?

Ok mate, just whatever you say. I'm tired of arguing with you. And I say it for the last time. It may geographically be in Africa, as I've said before, because it's at the same latitude as Malta :interesting: and a lot of Moroccan cities at lower altitudes are quite colder. For example Tanger is colder than Ceuta; even Casablanca which is about 33ºN is colder and faced frozes, while Ceuta has some envy minimum records, at least for me. Whatever you say...

Please read the title of the thread again, and then stop arguing and stop deviating my thread to another thing which is not Bismarckias and Roystoneas unto climate battles you've started. Thanks and regards.

There you go again... Where did I even mention Malta?? :hmm:

You are the one that needs to calm down & stop starting silly arguments with people. I simply stated that the info you posted was incorrect (as it was) you were the one that got excited.

Anyone that has ever read any of your posts knows exactly what you are like. So please stop & grow up :greenthumb:

Malta - USDA Zone 11a

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But you are missing the point, the data stated was made up, it was not using the figures stated on the AEMET website... And even using the correct figures it is only 7 years worth of data, not enough for standard temperature averages...

Not that it makes any difference as Ceuta is in Africa & not Europe :interesting:

I don't understand what is your point in all of this. Do you know something about Ceuta? :asleep:

Not enough for standard temperature averages? Who says that? Well, it's maded with another 30 year old climate chart. Anyways, it's at the same latitude as Malta and I've said before that it's in Africa :interesting:

The point is the figures you posted were incorrect, not that hard to understand. And climate averages are based on THIRTY years worth of data, not SEVEN & who says that? All the meteorological agencies in the world, that's who...

And yes Spain has some great climates that can grow many amazing palms, so I don't know why you have to post misleading data & then bring up someone elses climate when anyone questions you (you do this repeatedly) it isn't a competition you know... And you claimed Ceuta had the warmest minimum temperatures in Europe, when it isn't in Europe :interesting:

I don't know why you take so personal everytime it appears a place in Europe with a climate warmer than in Malta you get exalted and you always say that no it's not true, the data is wrong, etc.

This is not the first time. You have to calm down yourself, no one is challenging you here and this is not any climate battle. Also, this thread is for Valencia, not Ceuta.

First you've started saying that the climate chart I've put on the first post is incorrect. Now you say that the Ceuta climate data is incorrect, and also you are saying untrustful things like "oh but it's only 7 years old, that's not enough" while I am saying you for the 100th time that this climate chart is combined by the 7 years of Aemet and 30 years of another climate chart; because the old was from the mountain, not from the city. :asleep:

Those temperatures aren't incorrect. You are the only one saying that they are. Maybe you're angry with them? What did you lost in Ceuta? Now you know more from a Spanish city than a Spaniard?

Ok mate, just whatever you say. I'm tired of arguing with you. And I say it for the last time. It may geographically be in Africa, as I've said before, because it's at the same latitude as Malta :interesting: and a lot of Moroccan cities at lower altitudes are quite colder. For example Tanger is colder than Ceuta; even Casablanca which is about 33ºN is colder and faced frozes, while Ceuta has some envy minimum records, at least for me. Whatever you say...

Please read the title of the thread again, and then stop arguing and stop deviating my thread to another thing which is not Bismarckias and Roystoneas unto climate battles you've started. Thanks and regards.

There you go again... Where did I even mention Malta?? :hmm:

You are the one that needs to calm down & stop starting silly arguments with people. I simply stated that the info you posted was incorrect (as it was) you were the one that got excited.

Anyone that has ever read any of your posts knows exactly what you are like. So please stop & grow up :greenthumb:

So please stop & grow up. Ídem :greenthumb: then go back to the normal title of the thread.

Regards, and apply your words! :)

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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Guys, can you please take this dispute to PM if necessary. Thank you in advance!

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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Guys, can you please take this dispute to PM if necessary. Thank you in advance!

+1 :greenthumb:

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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If some climate predictions are correct (low temperatures decreasing, despite the increasing of high temperatures), over the next decades it will be next to impossible to zone push sucessfully.

Anyway, hoping that it wont be inevitable, i am sucessfully zone pushing, at 42ºN, Ovar, Portugal. Last winter was the colder since 2010, with a couple of -2ºC dawns and lots of cold and dry wind events from late january to february.

I was unable to avoid the roystonea regia death. But i am consistently growing bismarckia nobilis and euterpe edulis (and many others surprisingly hard 10a palms).

Rafael sad to hear you could not keep the Regia, will you try it again? Maybe it needs some years till it gets more robust. How far were you from the sea? The stations near the sea in Porto (Foz or Nevogilde zone) did not see temperatures below 1,8 c, but they are close to the sea, maybe the Regia would have managed in such location?:) Regardless maybe you can try it again, you are growing the Bismarckia and the Edulis afterall:)

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what about lampedusa?

Maybe too dry ? Idk very much about Lampedusa; but I know that in Almeria Roystonea and Howea for example can't grow under natural circumstances, because the climate is very dry. In Lampedusa happens the same?

The only climate data which I've found is this: http://lampedusainfo.it/113-Clima.htmllocated in a tourist website of Lampeudsa; anyways high temperatures appear quite high.

The climate which appears in the wikipedia is incorrect, it says 31/29 temperatures in August which are impossible; and the first climate source from the article was deleted, and the second indicates quite lower temperatures.

I don't know, anyways is very south (35ºN) and as Ceuta it belongs to Africa, so the climate is different. I'm searching for Roystoneas in Barcelona at 41ºN, I've found some private ones.

Howeas and Bismarckias are seen at Barcelona and they grow healthy. Anyways the climate charts from Barcelona are a lot colder than in reality, because they are mountain or airport climate charts, not of the city.

I will post later some palms in Barcelona and the climate; which is interesting for being at such north latitude. Regards

Edited by pRoeZa*

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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i think the chart you posted is incorrect also it seems too hot during the day and too cold at night. i would like to see barcelona palms. thanks

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Looking at the temps at the nearest reporting station to Tarragona, Spain for Dec 2010/Jan 2011, I can't believe a royal could survive the numerous dips into the 20s (several in the mid 20s and a low of 21F on Jan 22) combined with days averaging in the mid 50s overall for the whole period. That is a lot of cold/chilly weather for a long time. I can't tell if that royal is alive still. It looks based on the crownshaft that it may barely be alive?

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i think the chart you posted is incorrect also it seems too hot during the day and too cold at night. i would like to see barcelona palms. thanks

True, as I've said temperatures appear quite high so I don't think that is true. Also the climate chart from Wikipedia is totally false, none place in the Mediterranean can arrive to those minimum averages during summer or overall, they appear to be more Cape Verde lows than Lampedusa one's. Anyways I can't find the link of the official climate chart (there appears that Lampedusa does not have any climate charts) and the only one from Wikipedia leads to a missing PDF and the other source is this website: http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weatherall.php3?s=9461&refer=&units=metricwhich appears to be the truth climate chart.

But idk very much about Lampedusa.

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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Looking at the temps at the nearest reporting station to Tarragona, Spain for Dec 2010/Jan 2011, I can't believe a royal could survive the numerous dips into the 20s (several in the mid 20s and a low of 21F on Jan 22) combined with days averaging in the mid 50s overall for the whole period. That is a lot of cold/chilly weather for a long time. I can't tell if that royal is alive still. It looks based on the crownshaft that it may barely be alive?

Yes buddy, that is what happens near Tarragona, specially in the Tarragona station which is very very cold and can be considered in the 9a area even being at the sea, while Barcelona city can be considered almost 11a.

But you can look at Tortosa, which is inside Tarragona province and it's a bit at the interior: http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos?l=9981A&k=catonly 3.4 days in a year are registered with temperatures under 0C, and always they are very light freezes. The climate from the city of Tarragona is warmer than this, and specially where the palm is located; because it's at the sea level and in front of the sea. It's located in Cambrils in a water park, in Cambrils normal averages during January (the coldest month) are about 16/6 and is inside the zone 10a. Anyways that Roystonea is a champ for being that big and at that latitude!

I don't know if now still exists; but that photo was taken after the worst winter in those last years so probabily it's still alive.

I've readed all of this in the biggest spanish palm/plants forum. Posting foreign links is forbidden or is allowed? I can put it here and you can check it, there is a thread called "Northernmost Roystonea" where I am seeing all of this. Anyways they made like a kind of "guide" to see in the northernmost places they can grow, which is this:

Alicante: 38º20’43’’ N

Denia: 38º50’25’’ N

Ibiza: 38º52'43'’ N

But there are reported surviving/growing Roystoneas in Mallorca at 39ºN and also here in Gandia, that's a bit higher than Denia at 38º50N but anyways it does not care as Denia is only 30km south from here!

Those ones from Ibiza are enormous. In the 2009 aerial view of the airport were enormous, I think that now, 6 years after, they have to be real champs!

rgh1232974469i.jpg

As you can see by the trunk, specially those 3 ones from the right, they are totally Roystoneas. They have the "bottle" aspect in their trunk, so they aren't Syagrus.

Hello Proeza do you have any pictures of Euterpes in southern Spain and if so which species? Thanks!

Hey Cluster i'm quoting you to say yes. I will copy what a user from Malaga said some years ago:

Y por ampliar información decirles viven (no sobreviven) en el exterior sin protección, ni artificio alguna generos como Licuala,Latania,Dypsis,Carpoxylon,Pelagodoxa,Hyoph orbe,Borasus.... se siguen resistiendo Coccos.(2 intentos fallidos, estoy en el 3º) y Euterpe este invierno 3 muertas de un grupo de 7

That means that in the worst/coldest winter from those last years (it was exactly after the 2010/11 winter) he is saying that his Roystoneas don't stop growing, even were growing more! And from all those species from above, only died 2 coconuts and 3 euterpe from a group of 7, anyways he is saying in other posts that the Euterpes were so small and the winter was too cold for Malaga (zone 11a, about 4ºC those days)

2vvvxur.jpg

That's the aspect of the Roystonea after the winter... totally undamaged.

But I still can't get rid of envying Málaga... I wish that one day they will be taking advantage of the climate here as they do in Malaga... simply awesome

cqs1308061527n.JPG

viu1308061547v.JPG

And a user reported he had this little coconutty (with a bit of protection obviously, but not very much) in his garden. It's maybe still alive? :hmm:

bfi1308061955l.JPG

Edited by pRoeZa*
  • Upvote 1

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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Looking at the temps at the nearest reporting station to Tarragona, Spain for Dec 2010/Jan 2011, I can't believe a royal could survive the numerous dips into the 20s (several in the mid 20s and a low of 21F on Jan 22) combined with days averaging in the mid 50s overall for the whole period. That is a lot of cold/chilly weather for a long time. I can't tell if that royal is alive still. It looks based on the crownshaft that it may barely be alive?

And here we got the big prize! After doing a bit of research. This palmie:

arx1298586182g.JPG

Looked like this after the coldest winter in the last decade:

klz1308341686h.JPG

bfi1308341715w.JPG

Located at Cambrils waterpark, 41º 04' N no joke buddy !!! This palm has to be healthy right now. In 2014 and 2015 we had massive warm springs and autumns, this May we reached 43ºC in Valencia (109.4ºF) and the maximum averages from April and May for this year here for example are +25ºC in April and almost 30ºC in May. Cambrils is warmer than Tarragona and a lot than the official climate data, because as it happens in Barcelona, they are in the airports and the airports are totally uncovered from cold north winds and I don't know why but always it's colder... In Alicante for example the airport chart is slightly warmer than the official one from the city, but in Barcelona the average yearly airport temperature is 2ºC lower than the average temperature from the city.

  • Upvote 1

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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I would like to see barcelona palms. thanks

Sorry for not answering all in one post hehe, but it's only allowed to post up to 5 images per post.

qn4md1.png

The climate of Barcelona is this: http://www.bcn.cat/estadistica/castella/dades/anuari/cap01/C0102010.htm(2010-2014) and here is the official climate chart from the city: (1987-2010) http://w1.bcn.cat/temps/docs/Can_Bruixa%201987-2010.pdf you can see that the lowest recorded temperature from 1987 to 2015 is -1.0ºC/30.2ºF, something amazing considering that Barcelona is at about ~41º 30'N !

This is the evolution of a Howea in Barcelona:

30ud3pf.jpg

And this is the evolution of a Bismarckia in Barcelona:

2u9lc7r.jpg

Those 2 ones are from a user which has them on his house, planted from seedlings and 100% exterior all the time, and none kind of protection. The 1st photo is from 2006, the 2nd from 2009:

wqr0k4.jpg

wwkqxf.jpg

(In 2012 he says that they are bigger and they weren't damaged in the winter, they only get a bit of sun damage during summers)

  • Upvote 1

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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  • 3 months later...

bump!

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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On 28/8/2015 10:50:32, Pal Meir said:

30 years ago Málaga was dominated only by tall Washingtonia robustas besides Phoenix dactylifera and Ph. sylvestris:

post-10467-0-72223700-1440751568_thumb.j

post-10467-0-33003100-1440751582_thumb.j

Ph. Sylvestris get the same damage from RPW or they're less "interesting" than the Ph. Canariensis for them ? 

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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On Sunday, September 06, 2015 6:45:35, pRoeZa* said:

But I still can't get rid of envying Málaga... I wish that one day they will be taking advantage of the climate here as they do in Malaga... simply awesome

 

cqs1308061527n.JPG

 

viu1308061547v.JPG

 

 

Is this a park in Malaga? What is the name of this park?

 

Also what is the precise location of the Dictyosperma Album  and Hyophorbe you posted earlier that you described as the "south of Spain"?

PalmSavannaThumb.jpg

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On 8/1/2016 17:35:44, GMann said:

Is this a park in Malaga? What is the name of this park?

 

Also what is the precise location of the Dictyosperma Album  and Hyophorbe you posted earlier that you described as the "south of Spain"?

Those photos are maded in the Molino de Inca Botanic Garden, but you can find those palms in several other parks. In the middle of the city of Málaga, for example, in the Parque Central de Málaga, you can find dozens of different rare palm trees (rare for Europe)

Here you have photos of public planted palm trees in Málaga maded in 21th March, exactly after the entire winter passed:

Roystonea Oleracea

P1010209.JPG

Raphia Farinifera

P1010198.JPG

Veitchia spp

P1010172.JPG

Dictyosperma

010320102120.jpg

Dictyosperma giving fruits at 36º 45'N (latitude of Málaga)

010320102117.jpg

More from Málaga, at Picasso Gardens:

5348829688_d53d48b392_b.jpg

14539312283_c066ab2467_b.jpg

This photo was maded on 11th February 2014. This one is in another place, also from a public park in the city on mid February:

12460679054_6036d7e2da.jpg

The only extended Mango cultivations on Europe have place in Málaga... it's a very very mild climate:

nuestra-finca-1.jpg

From the other photos those palms aren't located in Málaga. They are located in Almuñécar I think, or Motril. I did know that place but at this moment I don't remember exactly where it was. But it wasn't in the city of Malaga, it was another place from the south of Spain.

Here it's the list of grown species at the Molino de Inca Botanic Garden (all of them are always outside planted in the ground, without protection)

(I copied and pasted the list from an external website, some names have links referring to that website, so if this is considered as spam I don't have any problem deleting it! because I just copied and pasted for not writing all the names)

mark6.gif Acoelorraphe wrightiimark8.gifPaurotis, Palma de pantano, Tasiste, Guano prieto. Tique.
mark6.gif Acrocomia aculeatamark8.gifTotai, Corozo, Coyol, Palma redonda, Grugru.
mark6.gif Archontophoenix alexandraemark8.gifPalma Alejandra.
mark6.gif Archontophoenix cunninghamianamark8.gif
mark6.gif Arenga englerimark8.gifPalmera de Formosa.
mark6.gif Bismarckia nobilismark8.gifPalmera de Bismarck.
mark6.gif Brahea armatamark8.gifPalmera azul.
mark6.gif Brahea brandegeeimark8.gifPalma negra.  Palma de Tlaco.
mark6.gif Brahea edulismark8.gifPalma de Guadalupe.
mark6.gif Butia capitatamark8.gifButiá.
mark6.gif Caryota mitismark8.gifPalma cola de pescado.
mark6.gif Caryota urensmark8.gifCola de pescado, Palmera de sagú.
mark6.gif Chamaedorea seifriziimark8.gifPalmera bambú.
mark6.gif Chamaerops humilismark8.gifPalmito, Palmera enana.
mark6.gif Chamaerops humilis ceriferamark8.gif
mark6.gif Chamaerops humilis vulcanomark8.gif
mark6.gif Chambeyronia macrocarpamark8.gifPalmera roja de Nueva Caledonia.
mark6.gif Coccothrinax argentatamark8.gif
mark6.gif Coccothrinax crinitamark8.gifPalmera abuelo,  Guano barbudo, Palma petate.
mark6.gif Copernicia albamark8.gifCaranday, Palma blanca, Palmera de agua, Palma negra, Palma colorada.
mark6.gif Cyccas circinalismark8.gif
mark6.gif Cyccas revolutamark8.gif
mark6.gif Cyccas rumphiimark8.gif
mark6.gif Cyccas taiwanianamark8.gif
mark6.gif Dictyosperma albummark8.gifPalmera huracán.
mark6.gif Dioon rzedowskiimark8.gif

mark6.gif Dioon spinulosummark8.gif

mark6.gif Dypsis cabadaemark8.gif
mark6.gif Dypsis decaryimark8.gifPalmera triángulo.
mark6.gif Dypsis lutescensmark8.gifAreca.
mark6.gif Dypsis madagascarensismark8.gif
mark6.gif Encephalartos sp.mark8.gif
mark6.gif Howea belmoreanamark8.gifKentia.
mark6.gif Howea forsterianamark8.gifKentia.
mark6.gif Hyophorbe lagenicaulismark8.gifPalmera botella.
mark6.gif Hyophorbe verschafeltiimark8.gifMascarena.
mark6.gif Jubaea chilensismark8.gifPalmera chilena, Coquito, Coco de Chile,  Palmera del vino.
mark6.gif Licuala spinosamark8.gif
mark6.gif Livistona australismark8.gifLivistona.
mark6.gif Livistona chinensismark8.gifLatania borbónica.
mark6.gif Livistona decoramark8.gifLivistona decipiens. Palmera llorona.
mark6.gif Livistona fulvamark8.gif
mark6.gif Livistona mariaemark8.gifLivistona roja.
mark6.gif Livistona saribusmark8.gif
mark6.gif Macrozamia communismark8.gif
mark6.gif Macrozamia mooreimark8.gif
mark6.gif Nannorrhops ritchianamark8.gifPalmera de Afganistán.
mark6.gif Phoenix canariensismark8.gifPalmera canaria. Phoenix.
mark6.gif Phoenix dactyliferamark8.gifPalmera datilera.
mark6.gif Phoenix reclinatamark8.gifPalmera del Senegal.
mark6.gif Phoenix rupicolamark8.gif
mark6.gif Phoenix sylvestrismark8.gifDatilera de la India.
mark6.gif Pseudophoenix sargentiimark8.gifPalma de Guinea.

mark6.gif Ptychosperma elegansmark8.gif

mark6.gif Ravenea rivularismark8.gifPalma augusta.
mark6.gif Rhapis excelsamark8.gifPalmera bambú.
mark6.gif Rhapis humilismark8.gif
mark6.gif Rhapis multifidamark8.gif
mark6.gif Rhopalostylis sapidamark8.gif
mark6.gif Roystonea regiamark8.gifPalmera real, Palma real cubana, Chaguaramo.
mark6.gif Sabal bermudanamark8.gifSabal de Bermuda.
mark6.gif Sabal causiarummark8.gifPalma cana, Palma de sombrero.

mark6.gif Sabal mauritiiformismark8.gifPalma redonda, Palma amarga, Guano blanco, Botán.

mark6.gif Sabal mexicanamark8.gifSoyate, Palma de sombrero, Palma llanera, Palma de micharos, Guano.
mark6.gif Sabal minormark8.gifSabal enano.
mark6.gif Sabal palmettomark8.gifPalmeto, Palma cana.
mark6.gif Serenoa repensmark8.gif
mark6.gif Syagrus amaramark8.gif
mark6.gif Syagrus botryophoramark8.gif
mark6.gif Syagrus coronatamark8.gifLicuri.
mark6.gif Syagrus romanzoffianamark8.gifCoco plumoso, Pindó.
mark6.gif Syagrus schizophyllamark8.gifArikuriroba.
mark6.gif Thrinax radiatamark8.gifGuano de costa.
mark6.gif Trachycarpus fortuneimark8.gifPalmito de la China. Palmito elevado.
mark6.gif Trithrinax brasiliensismark8.gifCaranday.
mark6.gif Trithrinax campestrismark8.gifCaranday.
mark6.gif Wallichia distichamark8.gif
mark6.gif Washingtonia filiferamark8.gifPalmera de abanico.
mark6.gif Washingtonia robustamark8.gifPalmera de abanico.
mark6.gif Wodyetia bifurcatamark8.gifCola de zorro, Limpiatubos.

mark6.gif Zamia furfuraceamark8.gif 

 

 

Edited by pRoeZa*
  • Upvote 2

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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I recently drove through the area of Alicante (39) and indeed noticed some impressive silver bizzies. 

And ate some sweet dates from surprising small dactylifera's. I always thought they had to be large and old.

Edited by Axel Amsterdam
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18 hours ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

I recently drove through the area of Alicante (39) and indeed noticed some impressive silver bizzies. 

And ate some sweet dates from surprising small dactylifera's. I always thought they had to be large and old.

The bizzies grow up here like champs, I am seeing more and more planted, the people have noticed that they are beautiful and they grow soooo fast.

Regards

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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On 14/1/2016 21:28:59, Axel Amsterdam said:

I recently drove through the area of Alicante (39) and indeed noticed some impressive silver bizzies. 

And ate some sweet dates from surprising small dactylifera's. I always thought they had to be large and old.

I have a question, in NY can be grown any sort of palm trees?

It's a good climate anyways, I think that Rhapidophyllum Hystrix and Sabal Minor should grow good there, maybe a Trachycarpus Fortunei too, if in the coldest days it doesn't arrive killer winds to it... But I don't know at all. I am really interested in knowing if in NY can grow palms, NY is a marvelous place! ^_^

 

 

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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On January 16, 2016 at 11:00:21 PM, pRoeZa* said:

I have a question, in NY can be grown any sort of palm trees?

It's a good climate anyways, I think that Rhapidophyllum Hystrix and Sabal Minor should grow good there, maybe a Trachycarpus Fortunei too, if in the coldest days it doesn't arrive killer winds to it... But I don't know at all. I am really interested in knowing if in NY can grow palms, NY is a marvelous place! ^_^

 

 

Yes, but only a few types like Rhapidophyllum hystrix, Sabal minor, and a few other cold hardy Sabals.

Trachycarpus fortunei is borderline here, it does okay in an average winter, but it'll most likely die or sustain severe damage in a harsh winter if left unprotected. The rain, snow, ice, and winds are likely a bigger problem for them here than the cold though.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 28/8/2015 21:54:59, Mike in Nelson said:

 

Yes I'm sure it is a microclimate but the mean annual temperature would not be anywhere near 20c. Brisbane, Australia has a mean annual temp of approximately 20.5c and is at latitude 27.

On 28/8/2015 11:46:46, Mike in Nelson said:

The climate stats look suspect to me. I doubt anywhere at 39 latitude would have a mean temp of 20c.

Suspicious? I don't think this. Yes, those are only 3-4 years registers... but it's what it is. I have found the official website of the Valencian Meteorology Association, and they have large recordings. Here you have one very precise website with the numbers of the last 10 years:  http://www.avamet.org/mxarxa_resum.php?id=c25m131e01

Gandia is located at almost 39ºN. In that website you have temperature recordings from the last 10 years because the website doesn't hold more than 10 years. Anyways, I know the average of 2005 too, it was 19,3ºC. But without counting 2005, those last 10 years made an average of 19.10ºC (66,38ºF) , with a peak on 2014 with almost 20.1ºC of average (68,18ºF). And also, in those last 10 years + 2005, the temperature never went lower than 1.1ºC (33,98ºF)

Kind regards!

Edited by pRoeZa*

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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That's FAR north! That's as far north as Cleveland, Ohio, or New York, NY in teh USA, if it's 41 N or thereabouts.

Way far north

 

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