Wodyetia bifurcata: go big or small?

[Kostas]

Hello

A friend found some Wodyetia bifurcata at a nursery but unfortunately they have all started trunking in their pots. The trunks are very skinny but some have quite long internodes like they are growing well. A few have just a tad fatter trunk but shorter and stable internodes, not increasing in internode height like the others do, and with leafs not as good looking/more stressed. Would any of these be worth buying and planting/will they fatten up nicely and well and grow to be adult palms of full sized, preferably exceptionally robust trunk diameter and nice ring conformation with no ring congestion or skinnier bottom at the trunk as i often see in foxtails? There are few foxtails i admire and those are only extra thick specimen with huge leafs, nothing like the typical foxtail with 2m long leafs like those i mostly saw street planted in Florida.The most beautiful ones i have seen are those growing in tropical Australia with 3m+ long, extra fluffy leafs....

My other option is to start with a 40cm tall plant. So quite a big size difference. Not sure what's best to choose to eventually have a nice, full sized adult foxtail. Any and all help is very much appreciated

[peachy]

For what it is worth, I planted 3 foxtails 1.4 metres tall and one just 40cm tall, about 8 or 9 years ago. The 3 big ones are now only 1.8 metres but the tiny one is 4.5 metres and very long leaves. It does get more water than the others however. Just my experiences with them.

Peachy

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience with them Peachy! That has been pretty much what I see with Syagrus here as well. The ones planted smaller tend to do a lot better and grow faster. But then again I see a few planted marginally large, with a few rings of trunk, explode in growth after ground planting and I think: how did that happen?

Going with a smaller one would probably be preferable and I am ok with that. I also think though that cold might be a problem to a young one while a bigger one might not mind as much. Then again a seedling grown palm will be better adapted to the local weather. Well, you know the temptation to plant a bigger one when you have found it but I am here to ask for your opinions on what's best

[SouthSeaNate]

I have always had more success planting small, it makes less of an impact initially & you have to be a bit more patient, but small palms seem to grow much better & ultimately faster than planting a more mature specimen... I have recently planted a very small Wodyetia myself

[Josh-O]

Some times Foxtails will stay stunted if they are in their pots for to long.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your replies and sharing your experiences Nate and Josh!

So the overall advise is ''Don't buy!''. I think i will go small then, as i most always do

[Mike in Nelson]

@Nathan: How do think a Wodyetia will fare in Malta? Are there any established there?

@Kostas: Same for Greece. Any established there?

[SouthSeaNate]

@Nathan: How do think a Wodyetia will fare in Malta? Are there any established there?

@Kostas: Same for Greece. Any established there?

I don't know if there are any other Wodyetia growing in Malta, it's doubtful as the nurseries sell only the common palms which are planted everywhere (Washingtonia, Phoenix canariensis, dactylifera & roebellenii, Howea, Syagrus romanzoffiana, Chamaerops, Dypsis lutescens, decaryi & Ravenea rivularis). So it would only be a "palm nut" like myself who would go to the trouble of getting other more rare palms (for Malta) from abroad as most people are extremely unadventurous when it comes to planting here. Though I don't see why they shouldn't do ok here, I am experimenting with a lot of different palms, purely because no one else is growing them here...

[Monòver]

Kostas, i have two experiences with big wodyetias.

Last year i planted one in my garden with 2'5 meters of trunk.

Is growing too slow, only makes one new leave in one year and it is not too healthy.

I hope will be better in the next years.

The other experience is in a garden, near my house.

The owner planted one with 2 meters trunk.

Now, six years later, the palm is full of leaves and the trunk is fat and it has one meter more.

I will post some pictures ASAP.

[edric]

Hi Giannopoulos, I just planted a 12 year old Foxtail from a 15 gal. pot, it's doing great, I will post photos later, those trees are worth having, buy them and put them in the ground, they will do fine, this is my all around favorite palm, it is an amazing species, don't pass those trees up, Ed

[Phoenikakias]

Kostas, i have two experiences with big wodyetias.

Last year i planted one in my garden with 2'5 meters of trunk.

Is growing too slow, only makes one new leave in one year and it is not too healthy.

I hope will be better in the next years.

The other experience is in a garden, near my house.

The owner planted one with 2 meters trunk.

Now, six years later, the palm is full of leaves and the trunk is fat and it has one meter more.

I will post some pictures ASAP.

Your report causes someone to think that there must be other factors than size in the pot that define whether a specimen after transplant in to the ground is a slug or not! Have you formed some explanation of your own for this discrepancy? I mean you know better than any one possible differencies in the growing conditions (like soil consistency, sun exposure, watering schedule etc), or perhaps the conditions of the plants while still in their containers or even the way the got transplanted... Anyway only half a meter difference of already formed trunk (2 vs 21/2 meters) while in pots does not justify that difference in the ground!

Edited June 2, 2015 by Phoenikakias

[pigafetta]

When i worked as a landscape gardener we use to plant out trunking sized foxtails all the time and we would often see the jobs months or years latter and they had always fattened up and put on heaps more growth, i also planted a few Normanbya normanbyi with a fair few feet of trunk in my old garden and they all grew great, fast and fattened up with nice wide spaced even growth rings.

IMO the best size generally to buy solitary palms though is when they are just starting to trunk, you get them at a stage when they are starting to put on vertical growth fast but if you treat them good you get a nice even spaced growth rings while some trunking palms from nurseries can have uneven growth rings or trunks burnt from the sun etc.

[Monòver]

Kostas, i have two experiences with big wodyetias.

Last year i planted one in my garden with 2'5 meters of trunk.

Is growing too slow, only makes one new leave in one year and it is not too healthy.

I hope will be better in the next years.

The other experience is in a garden, near my house.

The owner planted one with 2 meters trunk.

Now, six years later, the palm is full of leaves and the trunk is fat and it has one meter more.

I will post some pictures ASAP.

Your report causes someone to think that there must be other factors than size in the pot that define whether a specimen after transplant in to the ground is a slug or not! Have you formed some explanation of your own for this discrepancy? I mean you know better than any one possible differencies in the growing conditions (like soil consistency, sun exposure, watering schedule etc), or perhaps the conditions of the plants while still in their containers or even the way the got transplanted... Anyway only half a meter difference of already formed trunk (2 vs 21/2 meters) while in pots does not justify that difference in the ground!

I don't now what is happening. Is the same climate.

My soil is better than the other soil.

My wodyetia has more fertilicer, mulch, etc.

The two are in sunny place.

When i was planting, my wodyetia was healthy, with green leaves and good roots.

And the two was in a very big pot.

I have one archontophoenix cunninghamiana at 3 meters. It was planted the same day. In one year,makes 6 new leaves.

I will put two pictures, my wodyetia today.

And the other wodyetia, last February.

[Phoenikakias]

The healthier specimen grows in a definitely warmer microclimate created by the human construction. Situation is imo similar to the one regarding the thriving coconut in SoCa!

[Monòver]

The healthier specimen grows in a definitely warmer microclimate created by the human construction. Situation is imo similar to the one regarding the thriving coconut in SoCa!

It is not the microclimate. The healthier specimen is near the house, the same than mine.

And in the other side, only has open field.

The only diferent, is the healthier is exposed in Winter at north and west winds.

And mine is exposed at East and South winds.

In winter, my wodyetia has sun in the morning and the other, has sun in the afternoon.

Is posible the problem is the situation, but i am not sure.

[Phoenikakias]

What you say enhances my initial assumption; it is the microclimate IN THE YARD (not in the wider area)!

[Brad Mondel]

I would only consider buying these if the price was way below average. It looks like they've been neglected and initially it could take some time to recover. If you want a nice specimen then I'd go elsewhere and find a healthy individual, unless you're into rescues.

[Monòver]

It is posible will be the microclimate in the yard, or not, jajaja.

I will tell you in future, now it is too early. My wodyetia is only one year in the garden.

ArchAngel, my wodyetia was a good oportunity, with a very low price.

I hope will be a good bussines for me and not the worst bussines.

Today i saw the other wodyetia and it is blooming.

[Kostas]

Thank you very very much all of you for your replies and views on the subject!

I decided to go with small ones so that maximum trunk diameter can be reached, as I truly only like fat foxtails with huge leafs, 3m long ones and very plumose.

Here are the young ones upon arrival!

I adjusted them to noon sun and have a little tip burn, but grow well and 2 of them are opening new leafs!

Are these ok size for ground planting? Of course any size is good for ground planting and the smaller the better to get a robust plant, I am just thinking wether these are big enough to withstand a brief -2C to -3C if it happens, of if its better to grow them up for a year first and then ground plant. What do you think?

[Brian]

I would plant they as soon as possible. They grow fast in the ground or in pots however the ones in pots that form trunks tend to split in the trunk once you get them in the ground and they fatten up.

[Phoenikakias]

Groundplant them NOW, for once it is very risky to be kept in pot during coming winter. Either the would have to stay outdoors, where is to cold for their exposed roots or they would have to be kept in your house, where it is to dry. Imo foxtails are very susceptible to rsm inside a room. Take special care of the ph, they look to me very yellow...

[Kostas]

Thank you very much both!

I didn't know it was actually advisable to ground plant already and that it was so urgent. I will try to find spots for them, though I was planning to ground plant next year and don't have any ideal spots ready yet...

[David_Sweden]

My 2 cents worth is that it's a good choice to get a small Foxtail since it looks quite nice also when small, grows fast and is easy to care for. I have one indoors which I got as a seedling 1 year ago and it's now 65cm + pot and soon taller since a new frond is just opening. All palms are beautiful when adult but not all when small.

But hey why are they so yellow/pale and with dead tips? Mine is dark green. Maybe you should check for bugs, and soil status. Can't see how you can burn them unless forget to water, they like more or less full sun even when seedlings. Or is it just the camera?

Can't see what the hurry is though, if not enough light indoors get a CFL. And do these ever really trunk? I mean, the stem looks the same no matter what age just wider, unlike most palms.

[Kostas]

Wow, growing fast and nicely for you! Good to hear! I also like them when small, but the bigger and more impressive they are, the more I enjoy them! Plus, a young palm dies more easily from cold than a big, trunking one. So I am looking forward to them gaining size for practical reasons as well

In this photo, they had just arrived and were finally getting to see the light and air again after two weeks being crammed and tossed around in a box. So they were more than fine for that! They do were a little yellow (the lighting(sundown) and camera exaggerates that), don't know why though. They are a tad better now and a new leaf that is opening is dark green with pink hues. No bugs, not sure about the roots but I am treating them in a way to minimize chances of root rot while not stunting them from lack of water.

We get 35C plus here with less than ideal humidity, and a strong, burning sun. Now it's been very windy for some days and dries everything to a crisp even with daily watering. To get an idea, in a hot day, the substrate dries totally in less than a day and I have to water twice a day on very hot days.

I am not concerned too much about overwintering them indoors while potted but I definitely want to get the most out of them in growth rate and especially in final trunk diameter, which growing them potted isn't gonna give me. They do trunk, and quite early if potted, which makes for skinny trunks. Yours must be same size as mine, just more etiolated, right?

[tropicbreeze]

There was a small one in a small pot when I bought my place but I didn't get around to planting it for about 5 years. After it was planted it took off but not as fast as I thought it should. Just recently I germinated some seeds and put them in the ground straight away. A good root system should develop right from the start and I'm hoping they'll show it in strong rapid growth. I think the earlier in the ground the better.

We get 35C plus here during winter along with low humidity. I irrigate twice a day, not directly around my big Foxtail but its roots would reach the watered ground on one side and it does quite well. They seem to deal quite well with heat and low humidity, provided they are still getting some water.

[Kostas]

Thank you Zig, very helpful information! I have relatively shallow ground water, so this deep rooted species should tap on it within a few years after planting and not even need watering during the dry season. The problem is finding sunny spots to plant them that don't remain too wet all winter.

Wish you get rapid and robust growth from yours!!!

[Peter Pacific]

Hi Kostas!

I have a few of these growing in 35C heat and they take the sun very well. You will have to irrigate and fertilize though. Mine look ok but when you see those gorgeous specimens in Florida they don't compare.

Good Luck,

Peter

[David_Sweden]

Hi. Yes it grows fast indoors, it's in a sunny window and I also have a CMH lamp of 10-25 klx. First pic's from the day it arrived June last year, 2nd is from a month back (today there's a new frond opening which is 1dm higher):

Seems to be pretty tough, not complaining about too much sun or too low humidity. And not very sensitive roots either, by necessity my first pot was metal (all I could find urgently when I was surprised it came in a milk carton) and when I repotted it, it had really dug into the pot so I had to prize it open bit by bit which took half an hour, I did mist the rootball a few time but still, no complaints. And recently I saw that in the new, ceramic pot one big root was coming out and was crushed, I got it all out, cut the end of the root which was soft and watery, and it kept growing as per usual.

But you know, if I lived in Greece I would get 20 of them and plant my own tree avenue:

[Tyrone]

When choosing a foxtail I would always go for the fattest stumpiest looking one there, rather than the tallest for example. If you can buy a fat one it will always perform better than a skinny stunted one. They love heat too. The perfect palm for a rockery.

[Kostas]

Hi Peter!

Great to hear that! Mine brown tip so far, probably cause they are potted and we are having very strong, drying winds the whole past week.

I saw many in Florida but very few were close to as big as they appear in photos from Cairns, with thick, fat trunk and 3m long leafs of a healthy width. Most were medium sized palms around the size of a typical Archontophoenix, probably from being planted as trunking specimen. Otherwise most were pretty happy and well grown. I think I did see some impressive ones as well though. Wish yours to be monsters!

Thank you! Happy growing!

Hi David,

That's fast! Growing very well for you! I may need to overwinter indoors some if I cannot ground plant them soon enough, so it's useful to know.

I hope they grow well here long term, though they do are somewhat marginal.

Thank you Tyrone!

I went for some small ones that can grow fat on their own in the ground, without being stunted by years of pot culture. Hope they get to be as fat and huge leafed as some i have seen in pictures from Cairns!

Do they need full sun to grow and look gorgeous or do they grow equally well in a moister but somewhat shaded area, with less heat? I guess better go with full sun and high heat from what you say.

[Tyrone]

Foxtails in too much shade at least outside the tropics tend to be slow and skinny. If you want a fat bulky specimen you've got to give them full sun, heat, moisture and nutrients.

[Kostas]

Thanks Tyrone! Will have to wait to get the side patios ready then. These will be in full baking sun with paving around that heats up to unbearable levels in summer and is pretty hot all year long. Will try Cocos there as well.

Ravenea krockiana will make better use of the half shaded spots...