Italian cypress in Informal Jungle Landscape

[Alicehunter2000]

Does anyone ever use Italian cypress or Skyrocket juniper or similar tall narrow evergreen plants successfully in an informal tropical jungle setting? My yard is only 20 ft. (7 mtr.) deep and I have limited planting space maybe 3 ft. (1 mtr.) To work with. The HOA has put a halt to my plans of building a taller fence inside the community fence. I have severe traffic sight lines and noise. There are plans to put in water features, bamboo and more palms but I need something that is more dense as an alternative to break up the monotony of a solid wall of bamboo 112 ft. long (34 mtr.) ....the length of my yard. Thanks

[Alicehunter2000]

Here is the narrow area between the jungle and fence.

[Alicehunter2000]

Here is the problem.

The cars are not even that bad....but dump trucks and 18 wheelers roll by it is pretty bad.

As you can see I got some fast growing banana species ect. Started....but it freezes back to the ground almost every year....I need some evergreen solutions.

[Silas_Sancona]

David,

Not sure about their performance up your way but here at least, Italian Cypress are hit or miss. Extra humidity/rainfall during the summer seems to encourage Mite/insect attacks that greatly weaken them. Of the few specimens I have seen around town, most always have patches of dead growth in them. Have heard that ' Brodie' Junipers are a better overall alternative, even if they aren't as narrow- growing as Italians. Also consider something like Podocarpus maki. Becoming more popular for the same application in landscapes lately and don't seem bothered much by anything.

-Nathan

Edited May 16, 2015 by Silas_Sancona

[Ben in Norcal]

My neighbor has them bordering my yard. They are terrible - they get thrashed in the wind, look like crap, and drop stuff constantly. I'd be cutting them down if I could. He doesn't even maintain them...he's in his 70s and doesn't want to spend a dime on anything in his yard. Great stuff.

[Cikas]

I like Cupressus sempervirens.

It is our native tree in Dalmatia ( Croatia ). They can be huge.

At least here, they are great in the wind. And we can have some nasty winds here in the winter.

[Kostas]

David,

Cupressus sempervirens is native to my country and its a very varied species. Its not a tall narrow thing like you see and is commonly used there(and here), thats just a ''variety'' of the species with upward growing branches. The normal species is actually spreading and really nice and fitting for a tropical garden, providing light shade

Look closely in the above photos Jurica posted. You will see a great variation among the cypress, some tall and narrow, some fatter and some open looking and more like other conifers. With plenty of water and some canopy, a normal, open growing habit Cupressus sempervirens will grow nice, long branches sideways with hanging branchlets and look quite fitting to a tropical setting. The tree also grows buttress roots in wet areas, which makes it appealing.

I think that either form of the Cupressus sempervirens can be planted there(but leave a meter from the fence for the buttress roots) but the open habit will look way more fitting to your landscape and be a better, wider screen that will grow denser where it gets more sun(the street) and much more open and spreading towards the shady area(thus casting less shade and allowing for palms to grow between the branches). I think you will like it and if you provide enough water, it will grow at an ok pace. Once established for some years, it can grow at a reasonable speed

[Kailua_Krish]

What about one of the columnar southern magnolia cultivars?

Or group planted Livistona chiniensis?

Edited May 16, 2015 by krishnaraoji88

[Alicehunter2000]

The Italian Cypress actually performs pretty well up here. Maybe it needs a certain amount of frost.

I was wondering about what seems to be "bad" about them. Leaf litter and browning are never pretty with any tree. I wonder if Northern California doesn't have enough heat and thats why they look bad there.

Was hoping some of you European guys would chime in. I really only have a narrow space to work in....so I would probabaly go with the skinny cultivar. Those pictures show some beautiful country side, however it is not exactly tropical looking....more Mediterranean. My yard is already planted with a tropical bent. I really would like to see a full on tropical garden that utelizes these trees.

I already have several Livistonia chinensis and other Livistonia planted. I got a lot of stuff...palms and trees...planted. eventually alot of this will block the traffic.....I was just ticked off the HOA decided not to let me build a 8 ft. Fence or wall. Not a lot of plants have a narrow footprint with the ability to totally block a street....most hedges are greater than 3 ft. (1 meter) or require extensive pruning to getthis result. The Bambusa gracilor is going to help alot....just hate doing 112 ft. wall with only bamboo.

[Xenon]

Podocarpus? Bottlebrush? Maybe some kind of evergreen Viburnum?

[Pip]

Have you considered Hymenosporum flavum. It is a fairly narrow form or atleast easy to keep it that way.

[Monòver]

You have the best solution, the bamboo.

I think this is not a good place for cupresus. It needs sun if you want it will be green and healthy.

And it is small place, cupressus grows fast and you must prune two or three times per year.

Other solution like the musas, but stronger is canna musifolia.

It grows fast, is cold and wind resistant than musas.

And the most important, it has tropical look.

[Kostas]

Cupressus sempervirens is more tropical looking than most Cupressus species. The open branching form can look pretty nice with palms such as Livistona, not out of place at all. It does not detract from the tropical look and the hanging branchlets look nice. It grows fine with shade. The upright form would look quite out of place in a tropical themed garden and shade makes it bend and look horrible sometimes.

They do not litter much and do not hold brown matter on them like other Cypress do.

So I would suggest either the open branching form or no Cupressus. The footprint is the same, the canopy width changes only but allows palms to grow among the branches

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

If you were in a warmer climate it would be a no brainer. Polyalthia longifolia pendula. I doubt they could take your winters though.

[Ben in Norcal]

Plenty of heat here, so that's not the problem. They grow really well...they just looked thrashed by high winds and drop a ton of crap as a result. Here's a picture of my neighbor's plants to hopefully make you think twice.

[Silas_Sancona]

Plenty of heat here, so that's not the problem. They grow really well...they just looked thrashed by high winds and drop a ton of crap as a result. Here's a picture of my neighbor's plants to hopefully make you think twice.

Agree with Ben in regards to how larger specimens can look after a good storm/ high wind event. Great as a single or separated specimens if maintained, somewhat messy, ..and a Rat haven when grouped like those in the picture. Wonder if some of the smaller cultivars/selections such as 'Tiny Towers' hold their shape better.

-Nathan

[_Keith]

I am seeing the Cupressus in a Mediterranean climate big time, but not in a tropical look. But that is just me. Of course, in your climate your could pull of the Med easier than the tropical.

[Harry]

You can try the columnar forms of cupressus sempervirens but make sure you select "narrow and tight" specimens from a grower who is ruthless in his culling regime.

There is great variation even among the columnar forms and you need to source out the best specimens.

You also need to encourage their roots to grow deep (instead of spreading horizontally) because they tend to blow over in high winds.

I think this can be encouraged by limiting the frequency and duration of the watering.

If you have a high water table and strong winds in the area then I think you will have problems.

Once they reach a certain height you can lop off their tops to limit their growth (although I disagree with this practice).

Hope these observations help in your decision.

[Sandy Loam]

Hi AliceHunter2000 -

We can't grow Italian Cypress in our climate, period. Yes, you see some specimens around looking great, but many throughout Florida and all the way over to Texas look terrible because they can't handle the humidity and get "cypress blight." Nurseries will tell you that this is caused by our spidermites and, while this may be partially true, the spidermites are only a small part of why Italian Cypress look awful in our climate --- at least 50% of the time. I have sprayed and sprayed mine to stop the alleged spidermites. I am sure that I killed every spidermite many times over, but they still grew multiple brown patches and several would just die. Those trees love a dry, Mediterranean climate like Italy, Greece, Croatia, California, etc. But they hate Florida. Even Lehman cypress do not do terribly well here.

Most people will direct you to Ilex crenata 'Sky Pencil' as a columnar alternative for our humid climate, but I don't like the way they look.

I also disagree with some of the suggestions above like Southern Magnolias because they are not a good screen and you can see through them.

Here is my suggestion. Plant a row of sweet viburnum (viburnum odoratissimum), each planted about 8 feet apart. You will have to keep shaping that hedge, but in 5 years you will have a hedge that is evergreen, thick, dense and is 15 feet high. You can keep it 1 metre thick if that is all the width you've got to work with. That is the minimum you will need to reach a 15-foot height.

This is not a very tropical looking suggestion, but it is a practical one. Sweet viburnum grow extremely quickly if they have a lot of sun exposure. You would only need to buy 3 gallon plants which cost $12 each at the big box stores. I pay $7.50 at a local nursery which is cheaper.

If you really want bamboo instead, I don't recommend a clumping bamboo for a 1 metre width unless you buy a very skinny cane type of bambusa. Anything else will burst the space open as its rhizome expands. A larger clumping bamboo would eventually end up on the other side of your fence unavoidably, and you would have to be lopping those canes off as the rhizome spread underground beneath your fence. A rhizome barrier will not stop the rhizome of a clumping bamboo. An alternative you could consider is Phyllostachys nigra 'Henon', and although it is a cursed running bamboo, if you are extremely, extremely cautious about building your rhizome barrier EXTREMELY deep (or possibly use a concrete barrier instead due to plastic rhizome barrier deterioration over time), it is not impossible to keep it contained inside the rectangular area that you are working with. Henon bamboo is very attractive and will grown very thick "bambooey" looking canes over time. Because it is a running bamboo, it will not burst whatever concrete structure it is growing beside (the rhizome is much less powerful in non-clumping bamboos). In five years, the whole area would be filled in with bamboo canes which grow thicker and thicker each year. It will be evergreen in your region, like many types of bamboo.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Sandy Loam

[Monòver]

Other sugestion. Alpinia zerumbet, it has tropical look. Grows 3 meters tall.

Is frost tolerant in a 9a climate and is relativity fast.

[Sandy Loam]

Hello Monover. Alpinia Zerumbet is beautiful and it is evergreen in my climate and in AliceHunter2000's. However, I don't see it growing 3 metres tall in our region. I have seen it reach huge sizes further south of us in other parts of Florida, but I think we may be too far north to get a 3 metre height up here. We call it "shell ginger" or "variegated ginger" here and it is usually seen as a chest-height plant in this region.

[Alicehunter2000]

I am reading all your ideas with great interest.....thanks everyone....will let you all know what will be done with pictures.

[Monòver]

Hello Monover. Alpinia Zerumbet is beautiful and it is evergreen in my climate and in AliceHunter2000's. However, I don't see it growing 3 metres tall in our region. I have seen it reach huge sizes further south of us in other parts of Florida, but I think we may be too far north to get a 3 metre height up here. We call it "shell ginger" or "variegated ginger" here and it is usually seen as a chest-height plant in this region.

I'm spanish, for me, every places in Florida are like tropics, jajaja.

Here, the green alpinia grows 3 meters

The variegated alpinia, less. Only 1'5-2 meters.

If in northen Florida don't grow 3 meters, it is not a good option.

Thank you for the information.

I'm learning everydays with this forum

[Kailua_Krish]

Hello Monover. Alpinia Zerumbet is beautiful and it is evergreen in my climate and in AliceHunter2000's. However, I don't see it growing 3 metres tall in our region. I have seen it reach huge sizes further south of us in other parts of Florida, but I think we may be too far north to get a 3 metre height up here. We call it "shell ginger" or "variegated ginger" here and it is usually seen as a chest-height plant in this region.

Im not so sure about 3 meters but the green version does get significantly larger than the variegated one. Its more cold tolerant than the variegated one too.

What about Rhapis? Some of those clumps get quite tall. Unfortunately its also quite expensive to buy large plants...

Also if going with the viburnum, "chindo" is a selection with glossy green leaves that looks tropical and gets quite tall.

Edited May 19, 2015 by krishnaraoji88

[Sandy Loam]

I believe I have seen the "chindo" variety of viburnum in central Florida and it was quite attractive, although much less common that your run-of-the-mill sweet viburnum. I agree with Krishnaraoji88 that it has more of a tropical look, although I am not sure what the difference is between viburnum 'chindo' and virburnum awabuki. They may be the same thing, or chindo may be a variety of awabuki. I am not sure.

Viburnum Awabuki is supposed to be less cold-hardy than viburnum odoratissumum, but even awabuki may be evergreen in your climate. It certainly was evergreen in central Florida, but I don't know how it would react up in northern Florida.

I also note that a poster above mentioned making a screen of Chinese fan palms along your fence. I have done this myself along a fence and now I am regretting it. I love them and they now make a great screen at their current maturity level, but the problem is that I too had only about a 1.5 metres get between the house and the fence. When you buy juvenile Chinese fan palms (livistona chinensis), they are cheap but you can't tell yet whether they are going to turn out to be the suckering type or the non-suckering type. Also, some are sold as "dwarf" while others are sold as "non-dwarf". If you don't know what you're buying, you may end up with Chinese fan palms that stay stout enough long-term to create a screen at your sight line from a 5 ft to 12 ft. height, if planted densely enough together. However, some grow much taller, causing you to lose your screen effect. Another problem I have discovered is that the suckering type has to be planted far from the fence and far from the house. One metre is barely enough space for the non-suckering type to grow (as long as you don't mind fronds rubbing against your house exterior, but it is not enough space for the suckering type of Chinese fan palm. As a result, I am going to be chopping off several trunks in the future because I did not realize that I had purchased several of the suckering variety. The base of a suckering Chinese fan palm, at maturity, can easily exceed 4 feet in width.

[Tropicdoc]

Chinese ligustrums pruned as a hedge would give an evergreen backdrop up to 30 feet tall with leaves similar to ficus Benjamin these privets are highly invasive though

[Sandy Loam]

I enjoy the look of glossy ligustrum leaves more than sweet viburnum leaves, but they don't seem to grow as densely. I always feel like I can see through a ligustrum hedge, unlike a sweet viburnum hedge.

Alright, I'll keep quiet now.

[Palm crazy]

If you don’t mind the four month with no leaves I would plant some Japanese maple like Coral Bark Maple Acer palmatum ’Sango-Kaku and for some flowers how about some Angel’s Trumpet Brugsmania. Evergreen Viburnum (mention many time) is also a good one for privacy and has fragrant flowers in winter.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Palm crazy

[Alicehunter2000]

So much to ponder.....guess the issue of hedges doesn't come up much on Palmtalk. Another possibility is Cleyera japonica their are a few cultivars that look good....just not very fast (same with Podocarpus)... don't know if it would be able to fit in a narrow space. Here's a picture of an old one 50 years at my Moms house. Pretty plants.

[Monòver]

Another possibility is Schefflera Arboricola.

Grows fast, it has nice yellow-green leaves, grows in sun or shadow.

It is a good option .

[Monòver]

An example of schefflera fence in one garden in Spain.

[WestCoastGal]

Sandy Loam mentioned Sky Pencil, which he wasn't recommending. We tried that in our yard and while it is narrow and upright growing it is a fairly slow grower and I don't think it will provide the sound and sight barrier you seek. They also don't get super tall, read maybe 8-10 feet over a long period. We had 4 of them flanking our decorative wall and they all started to succumb to this sudden death browning that if you research you'll hear about. Plants go pretty quickly and then you're left with an empty space to replant. Had high hopes for it in our sheltered eastern exposure but yanked them. Here's photos illustrating the problem we had.

.

We're trying a Nandina domestica 'Red Moyer' in the Sky Pencil's place. I wonder if there might be a Nandina that could work for you. Evergreen, small canes similar to bamboo look so would coordinate with it. I think we'll be able to keep it pruned to fit the area. For your situation just not sure about the height though. I suppose you could plant them in a raised planter box with drip irrigation in it to create a higher hedge. Don't think they are water hogs at all.

Friends of ours up the Peninsula in Sunnyvale had the Italian cypress and gladly ripped it out when re-landscaping. Spider mites, messy and bald spots over time.

We have really tall canna, Canna intrigue, planted along a fence but like even Musa basjoo it will succumb to the cold and need cutting back. We'll be planting a few Pittosporum tenuiflorium (Silver magic) in another fence area bed. Not something I'd recommend for your solution but wonder if there's a variety that would give you what you need. We've looked long and hard for evergreen solution for narrow beds in our zone and it's tough to find something to meet all the criteria especially throwing in tropical look.

[WestCoastGal]

Here's another thought. Have you considered several high trellises dispersed among the hedge of Bambusa textilis v gracilis planted with flowering climbing vines? Maybe a red trumpet vine that would attract hummingbirds or Bignonia capreolata "Tangerine Beauty" for something of a tropical orange coloring.

As for the crossvine suggestion here's a link to info on the plant. The comment section had two interesting comments, one coming from sandy soil. We don't grow it so can't comment personally. http://www.finegardening.com/tangerine-beauty-cross-vine-bignonia-capreolata-tangerine-beauty As for the 2nd comment relative to spreading, maybe a planter box with trellis attached could help solve the problem if the sandy soil you have doesn't control it.

[DoomsDave]

David:

Not sure how cypress will do for you, but they make a great fence, till they start to get big and old and fat, then you cut them down plant new ones.

Other plants to think about: small Podocarpus species, there's a cultivar called "Maki" which stays relatively small, though it might not fill up the space as fast as you'd like.

Columnar Magnolias are pretty, but also slow in my experience.

Good old Texas Privet will work, though be prepared to prune.

Hmm.

THinking some more . . .

Too bad you don't have enough room for some Arenga Engleri tall type.

[Eric in Orlando]

If you soil is sandy don't plant Ilex crenata 'Skypencil'. It is very sensitive to nematodes in sandy soil.

A good alternative is a cultivar of the native Yaupon Holly, Ilex vomitoria, 'Scarlet's Peak'. Its very similar to 'Will Fleming' but isn't supposed to flop over and break apart like 'Will Fleming' does once it gets older. Yaupon Holly grows in sun or light shade and is very drought tolerant and tolerates some salt.

[Eric in Orlando]

Here is a photo I found of 'Scarlet's Peak'

[Alicehunter2000]

All good suggestions..........but I'm afraid that I have been bit by the bamboo bug.....the smaller clumpers don't seem so scary anymore....if they jump over to the other side of the public facing fence....I will "if asked" cut them to the ground. Knowing my HOA, they don't really care as long as it is not a scary running type.

Bambusa chungii var. barbelatta is striking my fancy at the moment....lol. Anybody got any pictures?

Schefflera Arboricola is nice....they sell them everywhere here...but not sure if they are quite cold hardy enough.

Scarlet's Peak would probably work....may look into that one...Ilex vomitoria does very well here.

[_Keith]

All good suggestions..........but I'm afraid that I have been bit by the bamboo bug.....the smaller clumpers don't seem so scary anymore....if they jump over to the other side of the public facing fence....I will "if asked" cut them to the ground. Knowing my HOA, they don't really care as long as it is not a scary running type.

Bambusa chungii var. barbelatta is striking my fancy at the moment....lol. Anybody got any pictures?

Schefflera Arboricola is nice....they sell them everywhere here...but not sure if they are quite cold hardy enough.

Scarlet's Peak would probably work....may look into that one...Ilex vomitoria does very well here.

Well, wish you visit. I might have some anti-inch for that bamboo bug.

[_Keith]

All good suggestions..........but I'm afraid that I have been bit by the bamboo bug.....the smaller clumpers don't seem so scary anymore....if they jump over to the other side of the public facing fence....I will "if asked" cut them to the ground. Knowing my HOA, they don't really care as long as it is not a scary running type.

Bambusa chungii var. barbelatta is striking my fancy at the moment....lol. Anybody got any pictures?

Schefflera Arboricola is nice....they sell them everywhere here...but not sure if they are quite cold hardy enough.

Scarlet's Peak would probably work....may look into that one...Ilex vomitoria does very well here.

Well, wish you could visit. I might have some anti-inch for that bamboo bug.

[Sandy Loam]

Hello AliceHunter2000:

I see lots of Scheffera Arboricola around here and it seems to tolerate our winter cold nights without damage. It appears to be more cold-hardy than schleffera actynophylla. However, I never seen it grow huge to the point of creating a high, 12-foot (+) screen.

I am definitely familiar with Bambus Chungii (huge and beautiful!), but not Bambusa chungii var. barbelatta. I may or may not have seen it in person, but I just looked at some online photos of it. It strikes me as being a bit too big to plant in the narrow space you are talking about. It sounds pretty vigorous (so would form a quick screen), but the canes look medium-sized and therefore a bit too wide for comfort, which means: (a) that when they start to extend outside the community fence, you can't just keep cutting them off with a lawn mower (as people do with the truly skinny-cane bamboos); ( the rhizome might be pretty powerful at pushing in the opposite direction too --- which will apply pressure to what? Your house foundation? A more slender-cane, and generally wimpier type of clumping bamboo is probably better suited to your space, but perhaps someone who knows Bambusa Chungee var. Barbaletta will chime in and say that my speculation is wrong. It is just that: speculation because I am not personally familiar with this type of bamboo.

Another reason to reject both large and medium-sized cane bamboo is that the wind can cause them to say and damage your eaves/gutters, assuming that the one side of the space is bordered by your house. You don't want those canes banging into your house all the time. Yet, with a skinnier-cane type of bamboo, this won't really be a probably because the skinny canes don't carry much weight or impact. The skinny cane bamboos don't look as nice and "bambooey" and, frankly, sometimes just look downright leafy. They also won't fill out as quickly to form a screen. However, after the first three years you might regret having bought a very aggressive medium-sized bamboo if you go that route.

I like WestCoastGal's idea about the large trellises covered in an evergreen vine. For real density and quick growth, I would recommend confederate jasmine in our climate, even though it does not have sensational flowers. However, I have shopped for large trellises and it is very hard to find any trellis which is extremely tall. I have one that is quite tall, but to buy several of those to cover the entire length of your fence will be quite expensive. It would also be expensive to buy smaller trellises and attach them to the to of the fence (eventually covering the whole thing with confederate jasmine), and the HOA might consider this tantamount to extending the fence height improperly.

Since you're definitely leaning towards bamboo, I welcome the comments of a bamboo expert. I am interested in hearing some suggestions that I can use myself.