Has anyone's Kentiopsis Oliviformis ever seen the high teens (Fahrenheit)?

[Sandy Loam]

I have been trying to research this question on historic PalmTalk threads, but I have yet to find someone who can say that they have seen a Kentiopsis Oliviformis survive 18 degrees Fahrenheit. Is this possible? To your knowledge, what is the record low temperature for a Kentiopsis Oliviformis to have survived, even with significant damage or defoliation? Someone just posted on another thread that these trees survive in Houston, Texas, although they do grow slowly there.

[Xhoniwaters1]

Had a little one survive 2 winters ago at 21 and 23 with a trash can over it with defoliation and no spear pull and this past winter had a 7 gallon unplanted survive 23 with major foliage burn but with green stems and spear. Both are in recovery mode right now and have resumed growth. They seem pretty tough in regards to their spear hardiness, definately. I couldn't say for temps in the teens though.

[DoomsDave]

Whoo-ee, I'd say 18 F is pushing it . . .

But!

I'm curious, too!

[Tropicdoc]

Sounds about like A Cunningham as far as response to cold.

[Sandy Loam]

Okay. Thank you for your comments. I asked the question because it was pointed out by a Houston, Texas PalmTalker that you can grow Kentiopsis Oliviformis in Houston. Perhaps Houston is warmer than my climate.

I am going to buy a couple of them anyway, just for the sake of experimentation.

I welcome any additional observations from other PalmTalkers out there.

[Ben in Norcal]

Many claim they are on par with A cunninghamiana. I'm not convinced. They are close, certainly don't show much stress at around 30. But they definitely spot up a lot more than an Archontophoenix, if exposed to open sky.

[Josh-O]

interesting thread

I'm curious as well......

had some go down to 32-34 F at my Vista garden with out even blinking

[Zeeth]

I'd rate them about the same as royals from what I saw in 2010, maybe a degree or two hardier. I don't think they'd make it in Gainesville...

[DoomsDave]

Houston is hot, most of the time. Sometimes for a long time.

But!

There are those times, when it gets to 17FF, and you're sleeping in your car, and people are pounding to get in, like on Noah's ark, when the rains came.

I mean, serious cold.

[Sandy Loam]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I am fairly confident that they won't make it for more than ten years in my northern Florida climate, but I boldly bought two of them this morning anyway. They were only $20, and they were both only a couple of inches short than me. Isn't that cheap for a kentiopsis palm that comes up to your eyeballs? (top of the fronds, I mean) I thought this was supposed to be a designer, expensive palm.

I will update you a few years when we have our next mega-cold arctic blast. I don't plan on protecting anything from the cold from now on.

DoomeDave, I agree. When it gets that cold, it's degrees FF, not degrees F.

[Ben in Norcal]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I am fairly confident that they won't make it for more than ten years in my northern Florida climate, but I boldly bought two of them this morning anyway. They were only $20, and they were both only a couple of inches short than me. Isn't that cheap for a kentiopsis palm that comes up to your eyeballs? (top of the fronds, I mean) I thought this was supposed to be a designer, expensive palm.

They seem to be becoming more common, but yes that is cheap. I bought one that is just over the top of my head (fronds) for $115 and thought I was doing pretty well!

[Ken Johnson]

I have grown a few hundred and so have others down here but we have not had any real cold since 1989.

My clients along the "coconut line" certainly have no problem with them and some folks are testing them much further than that with success. Orlando area has some so that's saying something.

In any case the addition of another cold hardy crown shafted palm to many peoples landscape has been an unexpected surprise from K.o.

[Xhoniwaters1]

Based off what I have noticed, I would say these are a bit hardier than B. alfredii. My B. alfredii has waayyyy more setback than these palms after one night at 23. I am still waiting for a new spear to emerge on my alfredii while my oliviformis's are opening new green leaves. Hoping though in the future I can stop talking about how my palm survived , to check out my giant healthy K. oliviformis growing in North Florida. (giggles)

[Palmə häl′ik]

Mine have seen low 20s

[Palmə häl′ik]

No frost, under canopy.

[Tropicdoc]

Is that alfredii suffering after 23 with frost or 23 under canopy?

[Xhoniwaters1]

Under canopy in the most protected part of my yard. The alfredii is in a 15 gal pot. Spear pulled and complete defoliation.

[Alicehunter2000]

Tyler, may be significantly hardier in the ground. Don't know that for a fact....but it is possible that it is similar to Bismarckia in that respect.

It is encouraging to know your K. oliviformis survived those temps. The anecdotal evidence is starting to mount that this species can handle short shots of low 20's.

[Tropicdoc]

Ouch! Keith's went through 24 under canopy with damage but is alive. In a pot, the roots freeze. Also if the palm is young the meristem freezes. Who knows you could surmise that as a palm gets older it's meristem is above ground and will freeze easier. Good news on the ko may have to get one someday

[Tropicdoc]

I have teddy bears that would be in the spot suitable for the kentiopsis. Not sure how the 2 compare as far as cold tolerance

[Xhoniwaters1]

Yeah agree it could have been different with the alfredii if it was planted in the ground as well as the oliviformis. My large oliviformis was sitting beside the alfredii during the event, so I know they saw the same temperature.

[Sandy Loam]

TropicDoc - Kentiopisis Oliviformis is probably pushing it in our climates, but it's worth the experiment.

Not to get too far off-point, but good luck with the teddy bear palms. I researched those at one point and, if I recall correctly, they would not tolerate below 25 degrees Fahrenheit....or perhaps 25 degrees meant that they would be dead. I can't remember. In any case, they would survive in my climate for a few years but would eventually die. I had a similar tree (dypsis lastelliana) and eventually I gave it away because I knew that it would probably not make it in northern Florida without significant protection.

[Tropicdoc]

TropicDoc - Kentiopisis Oliviformis is probably pushing it in our climates, but it's worth the experiment.

Not to get too far off-point, but good luck with the teddy bear palms. I researched those at one point and, if I recall correctly, they would not tolerate below 25 degrees Fahrenheit....or perhaps 25 degrees meant that they would be dead. I can't remember. In any case, they would survive in my climate for a few years but would eventually die. I had a similar tree (dypsis lastelliana) and eventually I gave it away because I knew that it would probably not make it in northern Florida without significant protection.

Thanks for the heads up. I have no pipe dream that ANY crown shaft palm will survive here without protection. These teddy bears and some kings are going into my jungle microclimate. On South side of a building under heavy low live oak canopy. I will protect them with bubble foil and a flood light inside of that. These are not long-term prospects. Just want to see these maybe get a trunk in my jungle. After that I'll just have sit back and watch them pass away.

[Sandy Loam]

Good plan, Tropicdoc.

"Jeff in Modesto" says that he always keeps a bunch of little King Palms growing interspersed with the other stuff, just in case some of the main King Palms die from a cold snap. Inspired by his comment, I went onto Ebay the other day and bought several king palm seedlings. It was adveertised as 20 king palm seedlings and, including shipping to Florida, the grand total was $10.00. When the box arrived, it contained not 20 but 34 king palm seedlings in it. I now have 34 little king palm seedling planted, many of which probably won't make it, but even if only a few grow into trees, it was only $10.00 total.

I like this strategy -- having a bunch of little backup palms growing all the time just in case. They get planted in the "jungle" area anyway, so it works.

[Tropicdoc]

Awesome. Love it. Who knows, one of those seedlings may turn out to have "Inge" genetics and become legendary. I can see it now on ebay, "cold-hardy Sandy Loam king palm seedlings...... $50 a piece"

[Moose]

Awesome. Love it. Who knows, one of those seedlings may turn out to have "Inge" genetics and become legendary. I can see it now on ebay, "cold-hardy Sandy Loam king palm seedlings...... $50 a piece"

[Alicehunter2000]

Good strategy....

Could think of a few different species to do this with.

[mnorell]

I tested Kentiopsis in Natchez, Mississippi (zone 9a). As a young plant with meristem beneath the soil-line (and thus effectively protected), in southern-style freezes it is definitely hardier than, say, Beccariophoenix alfredii (which in my experience is not hardy at all). What was good about it was, even though it completely defoliated (under some canopy) at around 26-27F, its growth-rate when spring came 'round was fast and thus it would push spears and refoliate quickly once the consistent warmth returned in April. Unfortunately 2010's 3-day freeze to 18F did it in completely despite the protection afforded by soil and mulch insulation. Of course that was nothing compared to the periodically severe, multi-day, single-digit southeastern Arctic events that extend right down to the Gulf/Atlantic coasts (major examples being 1835, 1899, 1940, 1962, 1983/85 and 1989).

As long as you don't cave into zone-denial insanity and you remember to keep Sabal, Rhapidophyllum, Trachycarpus, et al. in abundance as your foundation palms, the next big Arctic shot will just be an opportunity to replant something new. If I were in a place like Gainesville I wouldn't waste my time with tender, solitary-stemmed lowland tropical species other than using them as annuals or sunk-and-lifted potted specimens. Rather I would be experimenting with clustering palms from southern China and northern Vietnam...and there are many beauties to be found there (e.g., Chuniophoenix hainanensis) that would at least have a fighting chance at surviving in evergreen condition for years at a stretch, and returning with new stems after the bad freezes.

[Alicehunter2000]

Why are Kenta so hard to find in Florida? For a palm that is supposed to be bulletproof as an indoor plant...you would think every box store on the planet would have them. Would be nice to get a small 1 gallon size cheaply. Can you buy them that size cheaply out West?

[Alicehunter2000]

Sorry....I should have started a new thread

[Sandy Loam]

Alicehunter2000, you typed "Kenta" .  Did you mean to say "Kentia" or "Kentiopsis" instead?  Since you're talking about indoor palms, I assume that you mean Kentia palms....??  (Which are rarely sold in Florida because they are cool weather-loving plants)

 

If you meant to say "Kentiopsis," I have only seen them for sale in South Florida.

[Alicehunter2000]

I mistakenly put Kentia....started a different thread .... was just wanting one as a house plant and wondered why they didn't sell them as house plants like majesties and areca ... which we both know suck as house palms.

Anyway back to kentiopsis....I got one from Floribunda a few years ago....it barely grows....absolutely hates being in a pot and takes up entirely too much space. I'm going to plant it out in the spring under heavy canopy .... it will be a cold North Florida 9a experiment at that point.

[Zeeth]

I'd make sure to give it some overhead canopy and protect it from frost. 

[Alicehunter2000]

I just pulled it from its shaded position in the yard

[Sandy Loam]

For what it's worth, Kentiopsis Oliviformis was my ONLY crownshaft palm that survived the big freeze of January 2018 (the worst in my region in eight years).  I had two of them.  Now I have four.  Of course, both were defoliated, but they came back again in the summer.

Unfortunately, in a climate like ours, they will probably never grow very big and will be beaten back every year.  Yet, they are still fun to grow.  Mine actually did not defoliate during the milder 2016-2017 winter, which was their first year in the ground.  However, you simply can't count on every winter being like that. In our climate, I would just keep a K.O. in a not-so-visible location.  If I lived in southern or even central Florida, I would plant Kentiopsis front and centre because it won't get cold enough there to be a major problem.