Can a coconut palm grow on the California Channel Islands?

[Coconutman]

I know,another Cali coconut thread!What do you palmateers think about the possibilities of a coconut on any of the Channel islands?The town of Avalon in Santa Catalina Island seems to have the right temps to support one.Factors as in protecting it from dry winds,wet roots,and supplying enough water.Maybe in a private garden it's chances are higher than the neighboring Newport cocos?

[bubba]

Unfortunately, I believe the Salton Sea Coconuts are more likely than the California Channel Islands. Not nearly enough heat. No matter how hard you chew that gum!

[Gonzer]

_{Wait, April 1st is NEXT month!}

[Chris Chance]

I agree with Bubba. From what I've read they love heat and if provided enough water they handle dry just fine.

[bubba]

Every time I am in Avalon, it is cold as the willys. Beyond that, the whole island smells like Juicy Fruit. They will not even allow Spearmint. Next thing, you got friggin Juicy Fruit all over your shoes. Worse, you get it all over the slacks your Grandmother forced you to wear just so you could say Howdy to Mrs. W?

[Silas_Sancona]

While the odds of long term survivability are greatly stacked against success.. the theory is interesting. Particularly if you include the most favorable micro-climates on south/south east facing parts of either San Clemente, or Coronado Island.

Add to that locating and planting Coconut types considered the hardiest of the group, and the possibility of warmer SST conditions off So.Cal in the decades ahead, anything is possible.. however unlikely.

Imo, id never use the Newport Coco as an example of potential success. Very little doubt that someone near the coast around San Diego has a much better spot for one.

As for the Desert... Salton Sea is likely the best spot.. but, something tells me it may not be the only place, given time.

-Nathan

Edited March 5, 2015 by Silas_Sancona

[Coconutman]

The Islands looks the be too chilly to consider a possibility then.Seeing that it lacks daytime heat even in the summer.The influx of sea and wind moderates it too well!

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I think they wouldn't make it there, not even pure Mexican Talls (likely the most cold hardy variety in the Western Hemisphere) from Matamoros or La Pesca on the Gulf Coast of Mexico, since the climate is just way too cool for them year round there. It is the same reason they don't grow in the Azores, even though the Azores don't get freezing temps in winter. Coconut palms don't just need a 10A or 10B climate, they need a mild to warm 10A or 10B winter climate, which is why they can't be grown in cool 10A Galveston, but can be grown to maturity with a few full size nuts in mild 10A Brownsville and mild 10B South Padre Island.

[IHB1979]

I think you will run into the same issue S. Texas & Central Florida coconuts deal with. Prolonged stretches of cool and wet weather in the winter months. That combo knocks them down real quick.

[Zeeth]

I've asked this question before I knew much about the climate in California. The climate is far too cool to support a coconut, even if the location never sees below 40 F.

I bet that location would be the perfect spot for Ceroxylon quindiuense though!

[Danilopez89]

Does the elevation of the Salton Sea have anything to with why they will grow there? I live about 25 miles from the Salton Sea. I went out there last week and saw a bunch of small coconuts. They where growing them in the front and back yard. You can actually see them when driving down hwy 86 before getting to the AMPM gas station.

[Coconutman]

So other wise, inland locales have a better climate suitable like the mentioned Salton Sea.Could it be that the Gulf of California below the Salton Sea and the negative elevation of the valley created a microclimate favorable for cocos?I do know that dates are quiet extensively grown in that region,and commercially produced mangoes so that may be good indicator of the unique climate.

[Xenon]

What are the average winter lows near the southern shores of the Salton Sea? I'm guessing high 40s/50F?

Dead Sea looks like a good place for coconuts, irrigated of course

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea#Climate

[enigma99]

The USDA maps are showing the area as a 9B with an average winter low around 28F. Not until you get down to around Imperial it becomes a 10A. But USDA maps have been known for being unreliable so I wouldn't give it much credit

Edited March 9, 2015 by enigma99

[enigma99]

How about Desert Center ? 33.6971 -115.3816. These have (according to USDA) an average winter low of around 36F. And I'm sure these places sure get hot. If they work, we can make a new city called Coconut Valley, CA

Edited March 9, 2015 by enigma99

[enigma99]

But after looking at weather forecasts, Salton was still 6 degrees warmer at night. Lows will be around 70 in the 10 day forecast. hmm

[Zeeth]

Dead Sea looks like a good place for coconuts, irrigated of course

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea#Climate

Looks like they'd do pretty well as long as they're irrigated.

[enigma99]

Checked a PWS in Salton City... this past winter saw one night below 40 @ 38. Even temps below mid 40s are pretty rare in the winter. Curious debate

[Coconutman]

Does the elevation of the Salton Sea have anything to with why they will grow there? I live about 25 miles from the Salton Sea. I went out there last week and saw a bunch of small coconuts. They where growing them in the front and back yard. You can actually see them when driving down hwy 86 before getting to the AMPM gas station.

Interesting that if maybe some more planted? Seeing that this is one of the most warmest spots in California.

[Danilopez89]

Checked a PWS in Salton City... this past winter saw one night below 40 @ 38. Even temps below mid 40s are pretty rare in the winter. Curious debate

Wow! I didn't know that. I assumed it would be the same as my area. I actually thought it would get a bit colder since cold air sinks and that's the lowest part if the valley.

If anyone is interested in real estate the Salton Sea area is real cheap. You can grow all the coconuts you ever wanted.

[Josh-O]

who would of thunk. I think its the heat that keeps them going in that part of California. This is a great thread. Pedro, do you have any pictures of the Salton sea coconuts??

[Danilopez89]

I do Josh.

Check it out!!!

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/post-9726-0-96637300-1425182840.jpg

I hope you can understand a bit of spanish...

[Danilopez89]

who would of thunk. I think its the heat that keeps them going in that part of California. This is a great thread. Pedro, do you have any pictures of the Salton sea coconuts??

Ok. Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Lol

I'll go out there soon and get daylight pictures and hopefully I'll get to talk to who ever is growing them and see what they gotta say.

[Danilopez89]

I do Josh.

Check it out!!!

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/post-9726-0-96637300-1425182840.jpg

I hope you can understand a bit of spanish...

I originally posted this picture in the Spanish section of PalmTalk, someone got a good laugh out of it.

If you zoom in a bit you can actually see it though. They have about 6 growing in the front yard, the tallest one being about 6' overall. I first saw them back in late October last year and they looked very lush with plenty of healthy fronds. I'm not sure if they got trimmed or something but they did look thinner last time I went out there few weeks ago.

[Bill H2DB]

Salton Coco by Air Void King 4.0, on Flickr

[Josh-O]

they look somewhat protected in the courtyard? It's so cool that these are growing there and I wonder how old they are?

thanks for the Picture Pedro

[Danilopez89]

Thanks Bill!!! Now we can see the coconuts.

Josh, they are somewhat protected from the incoming northwest winds. If we ever get cold it comes from the northwest. They are facing the east and they get heat from the sun as soon as the sun rises. You cant see in the picture but there is 6. The smallest one was no more than a foot high and still had the coconut attached to it. Also I think they had several in the backyard, but I could only see the tops. They were already a couple feet higher than they're 6' wall.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

^{I would have never thought the new port beach coconut would have ever survived in its chilly location. But has done so for many years.}

^{It seems that average winter lows and winter soil temp play a very big part.}

^{Considering catalinas tourist past, I bet coconuts have been tried.}

^{However, in a court yard close to the water on the south side of a building , I bet they would grow. It would be hit and miss, but a couple warm winters to get em established might be all they need.}

[Coconutman]

Whoa! Pedro, 6' ain't bad! If there's more palm people living down there,we'll have a forest of cocos!

[Coconutman]

Looks pretty warm there @1:00am.

[enigma99]

Coconut might grow but man, that would be miserable to live out there

[Danilopez89]

Coconut might grow but man, that would be miserable to live out there

Yes. The Salton Sea can get pretty stinky.

[Coconutman]

Well,looks like we covered this topic already!

[Alicehunter2000]

Don't they grow over in Bermuda...around the same lattitude?

[mnorell]

Don't they grow over in Bermuda...around the same lattitude?

David--

Bermuda lies in the warm Gulf Stream and Catalina/Channel Islands sit in the frigid Alaskan current. This is the single determining factor since coconuts have minimum average temps and high heat requirements, which is why they can survive and grow fairly well in the scorching interior low deserts of the Coacella and Imperial Valleys. This warmth continues down around the margins of the warm Sea of Cortez while Baja's Pacific Coast waters remain cold south of Scammon's Lagoon virtually to Cabo.

In particular springs are warm to hot in the Coachella Valley but still chilly along the coast, largely because the interior heat creates a gradient and sucks the cold clouds/fog that sit over the cold eastern Pacific well inland, blanketing the coastal region in a clammy grey sky known as May Grey and June Gloom.

Bermuda suffers from none of that and basks in a balmy, mild climate. And even that is not the best zone for coconuts, as has been discussed in this forum previously...

[Josh-O]

Don't they grow over in Bermuda...around the same lattitude?

very good point David

[DoomsDave]

The extra winter heat is what matters.

The great American (and Mexican) Sonoran lowland desert could be a coconut paradise if watered enough.

In theory.

I believe Palm Springs is at the borderline of that tropical desert. And I'll bet they'll make it in Death Valley's "Banana [Coconut] Belt" at the right altitude.

Danny, keep looking for the coconuts.

[Danilopez89]

Here they are in all their glory. "The So Cal Coconut palm trees".

I also believe like Dave. "The extra winter heat is what matters".

[DoomsDave]

IMG_20150617_20358.jpgIMG_20150617_24529.jpg

Here they are in all their glory. "The So Cal Coconut palm trees".

I also believe like Dave. "The extra winter heat is what matters".

Whoo-ee

Had to holler into the elevator shaft . . .

I'll bet there's more out there, or there could be more, aside from getting PSSC members to grow them.

[Alicehunter2000]

They do look nice.

California is full of contadictions climate wise.....warm enough to grow all sorts of cool stuff but because of cold water among other things not warm enough for Coconuts ......surfed out there years ago and was suprised how scorching hot the sand was....but the water was frigid.