Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

What happens when a palm tree reaches it's maximum height?


GMann

Recommended Posts

What happens when a palm tree reaches it's maximum height?

Does it simply stop producing new leaves? In which case when the last leaves turn brown and dye and then fall off, does the bare trunk just sit there and gradually wilt away?

Or do new leaves continue to sprout at the max height but they sprout in a way that does not increase the height of the palm?

Or do the last leaves simply stay green and healthy for a long time? Does the overall growth of a palm slow down as it matures? So that when it is close to it's max height it still has a lot life ahead?

PalmSavannaThumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a slow gradual decline. As a palm ages and gets near its maximum height, there is less and less space between petiole bases as it becomes increasingly difficult for the palm to draw water up to its canopy. Each new leaf may be smaller than the previous until the last is insignificant. The process often takes many years before the palm tree has exhausted itself. The end result is a trunk with no leaves or a few dead ones hanging. I wonder if you could give an old palm a new lease on life by digging it out and replanting on its side so that gravity is much less a factor in transporting water and nutrients?

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What happens when a palm tree reaches it's maximum height?

Does it simply stop producing new leaves? In which case when the last leaves turn brown and dye and then fall off, does the bare trunk just sit there and gradually wilt away?

Or do new leaves continue to sprout at the max height but they sprout in a way that does not increase the height of the palm?

Or do the last leaves simply stay green and healthy for a long time? Does the overall growth of a palm slow down as it matures? So that when it is close to it's max height it still has a lot life ahead?

When a Palm reaches its maximum "height" it lives on for a "very, very long time", over the past 30 yrs on a particular drive Nth from here I pass a natural stand of 1000s of Bangalows and Ive never noticed any standing out that they are "old and tired" :)

A noticeable difference when pinnate palms are @ maximum height is the shorter leaves and far more swollen c/shaft and maybe its more swollen because its shorter? :)

Pete

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought that lightening, storms, cyclones etc get the oldest and tallest in time. The taller it is, the bigger the root base needs to be to stop it being pushed over. If the root base is as big as it's going to get then eventually the height to base width ratio gets all wrong and then extreme weather takes it out or weakens it. That's how I understood it. Getting water to the crown of an extremely tall specimen would likely be an issue like Jim said.

So you would imagine the oldest palms in moist protected deep valleys that never see strong winds or extreme storms and cyclones. Does a place exist like that????

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought that lightening, storms, cyclones etc get the oldest and tallest in time. The taller it is, the bigger the root base needs to be to stop it being pushed over. If the root base is as big as it's going to get then eventually the height to base width ratio gets all wrong and then extreme weather takes it out or weakens it. That's how I understood it. Getting water to the crown of an extremely tall specimen would likely be an issue like Jim said.

So you would imagine the oldest palms in moist protected deep valleys that never see strong winds or extreme storms and cyclones. Does a place exist like that????

Lots of protected valleys along the whole East coast of Oz for starters :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought that lightening, storms, cyclones etc get the oldest and tallest in time. The taller it is, the bigger the root base needs to be to stop it being pushed over. If the root base is as big as it's going to get then eventually the height to base width ratio gets all wrong and then extreme weather takes it out or weakens it. That's how I understood it. Getting water to the crown of an extremely tall specimen would likely be an issue like Jim said.

So you would imagine the oldest palms in moist protected deep valleys that never see strong winds or extreme storms and cyclones. Does a place exist like that????

Yes, Tyrone. Lightning is rare in CA except in the Sierras and we don't have cyclones or hurricanes here either. I've watched a number of very old (well over 100 years) Washingtonia in their slow decline. I does take several years but it eventually ends in a completely exhausted palm that just quits and ends up with a nearly bare topped tall trunk. With small palm varieties it's the same. My two oldest Chamaedorea metalica, with six feet of trunk died recently and it was an endless progression of smaller and smaller leaves until the last ones were like slivers instead of leaves.

These Washingtonia and Phoenix in San Jose are 100 years old and still looking awesome.

post-181-0-91613400-1425429443_thumb.jpg

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What happens when a palm tree reaches it's maximum height?

Does it simply stop producing new leaves? In which case when the last leaves turn brown and dye and then fall off, does the bare trunk just sit there and gradually wilt away?

Or do new leaves continue to sprout at the max height but they sprout in a way that does not increase the height of the palm?

Or do the last leaves simply stay green and healthy for a long time? Does the overall growth of a palm slow down as it matures? So that when it is close to it's max height it still has a lot life ahead?

Gareth - interesting question and I agree what the others have stated about the palm slowing down over time. I see you are from Florida so you probably will never see any tall palms achieve their max height. Lightning causes our palms to take the big compost nap before the max size is arrived at.

post-1729-0-20337500-1425495933.jpg

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought that lightening, storms, cyclones etc get the oldest and tallest in time. The taller it is, the bigger the root base needs to be to stop it being pushed over. If the root base is as big as it's going to get then eventually the height to base width ratio gets all wrong and then extreme weather takes it out or weakens it. That's how I understood it. Getting water to the crown of an extremely tall specimen would likely be an issue like Jim said.

So you would imagine the oldest palms in moist protected deep valleys that never see strong winds or extreme storms and cyclones. Does a place exist like that????

Lots of protected valleys along the whole East coast of Oz for starters :)

Totally storm and cyclone free for say 200 years???

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have thought that lightening, storms, cyclones etc get the oldest and tallest in time. The taller it is, the bigger the root base needs to be to stop it being pushed over. If the root base is as big as it's going to get then eventually the height to base width ratio gets all wrong and then extreme weather takes it out or weakens it. That's how I understood it. Getting water to the crown of an extremely tall specimen would likely be an issue like Jim said.

So you would imagine the oldest palms in moist protected deep valleys that never see strong winds or extreme storms and cyclones. Does a place exist like that????

Yes, Tyrone. Lightning is rare in CA except in the Sierras and we don't have cyclones or hurricanes here either. I've watched a number of very old (well over 100 years) Washingtonia in their slow decline. I does take several years but it eventually ends in a completely exhausted palm that just quits and ends up with a nearly bare topped tall trunk. With small palm varieties it's the same. My two oldest Chamaedorea metalica, with six feet of trunk died recently and it was an endless progression of smaller and smaller leaves until the last ones were like slivers instead of leaves.

These Washingtonia and Phoenix in San Jose are 100 years old and still looking awesome.

attachicon.gifphoto-32.JPG

They're some old and tall Washies Jim.

I've never seen old Washies die before. They've been grown in West Oz for around a century, but the old ones are all being removed for housing developments.

Geriatric palms that die must be related to the fact that as it gets taller it's got to work harder and harder to get water and nutrients to the crown. Pumping water straight up a distance is no easy thing and requires a lot of energy. To get an electrical pump to pump water up 100-150ft from ground level requires a few Watts of energy. A palm would be more efficient than a man made electrical water pump though. I suppose once the energy is taken up pumping it 100-150ft up into the sky there is little energy left to put on leaf growth. Smaller palms just have smaller pumps and max out at lower levels.

This has been an interesting question.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GMan: Well stated and definitely questions I've wondered as well. There are about a dozen palmettos in the parking lot of an older vacant restaurant that I think are reaching this stage, although it could be something else as well. I'll take some pictures sometime soon and post them.

Jim: Never thought of it that way... I think it's very plausible that eliminating gravity's effect by laying a palm on it's side would prolong its life. I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but it makes sense to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...