What type of punishment should be handed down to the New England Patriots?

[Mandrew968]

So, if you are reading this thread, you probably know about the 'deflate gate' where 11 out of the Patriot's 12 balls were deflated by about 3 lbs so that Brady could grip the ball better, during the rainy and nasty AFC Championship game.

At first, I thought this was a minor story, but when I realized both teams have their own balls, it became quite clear just how much of an advantage Brady had over Luck. If both quarterbacks used the same ball, that would be a violation of the rules, but not nearly as much of an advantage as it actually played out to actually be.

Also, I don't think it is plausable that neither Brady nor Belichick knew about this. Rather, I am fairly confident they both knew about it and willingly decided to cheat. Given the conditions of the game, I think this cheating certainly effected the outcome of the game--had Brady had an untapered ball, he would have struggled more. If Luck had an easier ball to grip, it's safe to assume he would have put up more points; a deflated ball, under these circumstances is easier to both throw and catch.

So the big question: what punishment should the Patriots recieve?

I say fine the team twice what they got for 'spy gate', take away first available draft pick for two years, and suspend Belichick for one year, plus the Superbowl. As always, I am interested in what other fans think about these sad allegations that compromise the integrity of America's favorite game.

[Alicehunter2000]

Think the officials should be fined and fired for not already thinking this could happen and not having procedures in place for checking the balls. Don't boxers get their gloves checked for foreign objects, don't other sports check the balls, bats ect. to make sure everything is up to regulation. Nah...this is one of those things where if you don't care about checking it....why should I?

No way to prove they did it on purpose unless they tweeted it to each other...lol

Plausible deniability comes to mind.........

And just what inspired them to check the balls AFTER the game?

Just gotta say it...........somebody really dropped the ball on checking to make sure the rules are followed......bahhdaa bing!

[LJG]

"We only played with the properly inflated ball".

- Patriots fans

[tank]

I thought it was 2 lbs?

Also, what I read said that they were found to be "under-inflated" at the half and re-inflated by the officials with nothing being said about the second half "inflation".

[tank]

All of that "deflation" could have happened at anytime during the first half of the game. Colts would have definitely won if the balls had been inflated properly......

[tank]

Also,

I'm sure that the fact that the Patriots doubled the rushing output of the Colts had nothing to do with the win....

[Funkthulhu]

I think a better question is, who cares?

This is just something to talk about during a slow football week and means nothing in the grand scheme of things. (unless you're a fan of the opposition and you just can't deal that your team lost like any other random game)

[Moose]

I think a better question is, who cares?

This is just something to talk about during a slow football week and means nothing in the grand scheme of things. (unless you're a fan of the opposition and you just can't deal that your team lost like any other random game)

The New England Patriots have had a history of cheating. Rules have been created because of their unethical practices. Does anyone remember the snow plow incident against the Miami Dolphins back during the Don Shula / Dan Marino days. They have hired spies to steal defensive signals, then radioed Tom Brady what the defensive scheme. They have also hired lip readers, thats why you see offensive coordinators hide behind their charts when calling plays..

Of course I am completely bias as a Dolphin Fan. My opinion is that they should surrender all draft picks for the next five years. In addition, their 1st and 2nd round draft picks should be for the ensuing 15 years should be surrendered. I'll bet that such a penalty would send a message to the entire league that cheating will not be tolerated. This may seem harsh but their past precedents indicates that they don't play fair.

[Funkthulhu]

I just get really tired of every time someone's team doesn't win there is some sort of cheat, or ref pay-off, or controversy. It's never just that one team played better or is better than another. But lately it is far more entertaining to watch the "sports journalism" sphere implode about this stuff than it ever was to watch the actual game (which I didn't).

There was no cheat here, there will be no repercussions, this will be forgotten by the time we get to the Super Bowl.

[_Keith]

from youth to adulthood football coaches teach players to cheat when they can get away with it. Dirty little tricks to get any advantage you can get are just an ugly part of the game that no one wants to admit. Penalties exist to give the appearance of fairness, but if you watch enough replays you realize that much goes uncaught. Coaches do that too. They teach you out to watch the locations and habits of the refs so you can get away with more.

[Xerarch]

Maybe they should change their name to the New England Politicians.

[Moose]

from youth to adulthood football coaches teach players to cheat when they can get away with it. Dirty little tricks to get any advantage you can get are just an ugly part of the game that no one wants to admit. Penalties exist to give the appearance of fairness, but if you watch enough replays you realize that much goes uncaught. Coaches do that too. They teach you out to watch the locations and habits of the refs so you can get away with more.

The NFL spanked the Saints for much less of an offense. If they don't come down hard on the Patriots, then there is some definite collusion. Maybe they should have the Patriots forfeit the game and send the Indianapolis Colts to the Superbowl. Bet the Patriots would stop their cheating ways if that happened.

[_Keith]

from youth to adulthood football coaches teach players to cheat when they can get away with it. Dirty little tricks to get any advantage you can get are just an ugly part of the game that no one wants to admit. Penalties exist to give the appearance of fairness, but if you watch enough replays you realize that much goes uncaught. Coaches do that too. They teach you out to watch the locations and habits of the refs so you can get away with more.

The NFL spanked the Saints for much less of an offense. If they don't come down hard on the Patriots, then there is some definite collusion. Maybe they should have the Patriots forfeit the game and send the Indianapolis Colts to the Superbowl. Bet the Patriots would stop their cheating ways if that happened.

Moose, you know if they did that, have the Pats forfeit, that would send a real message, but we both know there are far too many millions riding on that game being played for that to ever happen.

[Alicehunter2000]

I think the NFL rules state that the balls have to be turned over to officials for inspection .....guess somebody didn't do their job.

[trioderob]

from youth to adulthood football coaches teach players to cheat when they can get away with it. Dirty little tricks to get any advantage you can get are just an ugly part of the game that no one wants to admit. Penalties exist to give the appearance of fairness, but if you watch enough replays you realize that much goes uncaught. Coaches do that too. They teach you out to watch the locations and habits of the refs so you can get away with more.

The NFL spanked the Saints for much less of an offense. If they don't come down hard on the Patriots, then there is some definite collusion. Maybe they should have the Patriots forfeit the game and send the Indianapolis Colts to the Superbowl. Bet the Patriots would stop their cheating ways if that happened.

didn't the the saints coach put up a bonus prize for anyone who took the head off a quarterback ?

"Bounties"

Edited January 22, 2015 by trioderob

[Moose]

from youth to adulthood football coaches teach players to cheat when they can get away with it. Dirty little tricks to get any advantage you can get are just an ugly part of the game that no one wants to admit. Penalties exist to give the appearance of fairness, but if you watch enough replays you realize that much goes uncaught. Coaches do that too. They teach you out to watch the locations and habits of the refs so you can get away with more.

The NFL spanked the Saints for much less of an offense. If they don't come down hard on the Patriots, then there is some definite collusion. Maybe they should have the Patriots forfeit the game and send the Indianapolis Colts to the Superbowl. Bet the Patriots would stop their cheating ways if that happened.

Moose, you know if they did that, have the Pats forfeit, that would send a real message, but we both know there are far too many millions riding on that game being played for that to ever happen.

You got that right. I found it amazing right after both AFC and NFC games, they were selling official NFL championship hats at $37.50 plus shipping and handling. That is one hell of a mark up. How many more millions do those multi-millionaire owners need?

[LJG]

I just get really tired of every time someone's team doesn't win there is some sort of cheat, or ref pay-off, or controversy. It's never just that one team played better or is better than another. But lately it is far more entertaining to watch the "sports journalism" sphere implode about this stuff than it ever was to watch the actual game (which I didn't).

There was no cheat here, there will be no repercussions, this will be forgotten by the time we get to the Super Bowl.

Glad actual football fans and pundits are on this and will help push for deliverly of punishment for the arrogance that the Partiots have. First spy gate (guess also not a big deal to you?) and now this. Who knows how often this has happened. Doubt this was a one time deal. There are rules. If you break them, there needs to be consequences. When you purposely break a rule in a game it makes you a cheater. Plain and simple.

[waykoolplantz]

Anyone think this discrepancy may be exaggerated by the temperature differential 'tween field & prep area ?

I too am tired of Tom Brady...but we have all assumed Patriots to be guilty.

[Mandrew968]

I just get really tired of every time someone's team doesn't win there is some sort of cheat, or ref pay-off, or controversy. It's never just that one team played better or is better than another. But lately it is far more entertaining to watch the "sports journalism" sphere implode about this stuff than it ever was to watch the actual game (which I didn't).

There was no cheat here, there will be no repercussions, this will be forgotten by the time we get to the Super Bowl.

Glad actual football fans and pundits are on this and will help push for deliverly of punishment for the arrogance that the Partiots have. First spy gate (guess also not a big deal to you?) and now this. Who knows how often this has happened. Doubt this was a one time deal. There are rules. If you break them, there needs to be consequences. When you purposely break a rule in a game it makes you a cheater. Plain and simple.

I am with Len on this one. When this sort of thing happens, it disrupts the integrity of the game itself. This probably wasn't the first time, nor was it their first time getting caught.

Mike, if what you are saying is plausible, then wouldn't the Colt's balls have had discrepencies, similar? From what i recall, that was not the findings. I also understand your point of due process, but that doesn't apply in the court of public opinion.

[SubTropicRay]

Suspend Belichick for the Super Bowl and next season.

[Funkthulhu]

Because, y'know, if I make up a reason that my team got cheated, then they really didn't lose so bad and it doesn't count. Right?

The armchair quarterbacks are mad that "their" team didn't win and they're looking for any excuse to explain it away. Deflategate just happens to be the only port in this storm...

[Moose]

I just get really tired of every time someone's team doesn't win there is some sort of cheat, or ref pay-off, or controversy. It's never just that one team played better or is better than another. But lately it is far more entertaining to watch the "sports journalism" sphere implode about this stuff than it ever was to watch the actual game (which I didn't).

There was no cheat here, there will be no repercussions, this will be forgotten by the time we get to the Super Bowl.

Glad actual football fans and pundits are on this and will help push for deliverly of punishment for the arrogance that the Partiots have. First spy gate (guess also not a big deal to you?) and now this. Who knows how often this has happened. Doubt this was a one time deal. There are rules. If you break them, there needs to be consequences. When you purposely break a rule in a game it makes you a cheater. Plain and simple.

I am with Len on this one. When this sort of thing happens, it disrupts the integrity of the game itself. This probably wasn't the first time, nor was it their first time getting caught.

Mike, if what you are saying is plausible, then wouldn't the Colt's balls have had discrepencies, similar? From what i recall, that was not the findings. I also understand your point of due process, but that doesn't apply in the court of public opinion.

I gotta agree with you Andrew - Len has probably stated it best. I am too emotionally involved as a lifetime Miami Dolphin fan. The New England Patriots are our nemesis. That is why I am all for a unrealistic Draconian punishment.We hate the NY Jets because they have the most obnoxious fans in the NFL (tied with Philly).

[Moose]

Suspend Belichick for the Super Bowl and next season.

Ray - Brilliant, Love your idea !!!

[LJG]

Because, y'know, if I make up a reason that my team got cheated, then they really didn't lose so bad and it doesn't count. Right?

The armchair quarterbacks are mad that "their" team didn't win and they're looking for any excuse to explain it away. Deflategate just happens to be the only port in this storm...

Me personally I am a Charger fan. Don't like the Colts or Pats. My argument is based simply on integrity.

[Mandrew968]

Because, y'know, if I make up a reason that my team got cheated, then they really didn't lose so bad and it doesn't count. Right?

The armchair quarterbacks are mad that "their" team didn't win and they're looking for any excuse to explain it away. Deflategate just happens to be the only port in this storm...

Funk, I appreciate your take and contribution to this thread, but I am just an NFL fan (maybe if the fins climb out of mediocrity, I will root for them) so your argument about anyone being sour over their team losing, doesn't seem to hold water...

[Mandrew968]

I just get really tired of every time someone's team doesn't win there is some sort of cheat, or ref pay-off, or controversy. It's never just that one team played better or is better than another. But lately it is far more entertaining to watch the "sports journalism" sphere implode about this stuff than it ever was to watch the actual game (which I didn't).

There was no cheat here, there will be no repercussions, this will be forgotten by the time we get to the Super Bowl.

Glad actual football fans and pundits are on this and will help push for deliverly of punishment for the arrogance that the Partiots have. First spy gate (guess also not a big deal to you?) and now this. Who knows how often this has happened. Doubt this was a one time deal. There are rules. If you break them, there needs to be consequences. When you purposely break a rule in a game it makes you a cheater. Plain and simple.

I am with Len on this one. When this sort of thing happens, it disrupts the integrity of the game itself. This probably wasn't the first time, nor was it their first time getting caught.

Mike, if what you are saying is plausible, then wouldn't the Colt's balls have had discrepencies, similar? From what i recall, that was not the findings. I also understand your point of due process, but that doesn't apply in the court of public opinion.

I gotta agree with you Andrew - Len has probably stated it best. I am too emotionally involved as a lifetime Miami Dolphin fan. The New England Patriots are our nemesis. That is why I am all for a unrealistic Draconian punishment.We hate the NY Jets because they have the most obnoxious fans in the NFL (tied with Philly).

Moose, from my experiences with jets fans at the games, I agree %100-jets fans are the worst. Their accent just fuels the fire...

[Funkthulhu]

Because, y'know, if I make up a reason that my team got cheated, then they really didn't lose so bad and it doesn't count. Right?

The armchair quarterbacks are mad that "their" team didn't win and they're looking for any excuse to explain it away. Deflategate just happens to be the only port in this storm...

Funk, I appreciate your take and contribution to this thread, but I am just an NFL fan (maybe if the fins climb out of mediocrity, I will root for them) so your argument about anyone being sour over their team losing, doesn't seem to hold water...

I'm just throwing gasoline on a bonfire, I don't even watch Armored Hand-Egg.

But...

If the rules say that a team only uses their own balls, how it is that the pats scored more points in the half of the game their balls were "properly inflated"? Or that they had better rushing? And how do the pat's balls affect the colts' craptastic performance if the colts never even touched them?

It's all just something to argue about for the sake of argument.

What's really sad is I now have to listen to this on NPR instead of real news: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/01/20/378581349/scientists-say-the-nfls-deflate-gate-isnt-all-hot-air

Edited January 22, 2015 by Funkthulhu

[Darold Petty]

The NFL is a tax-exempt, nonprofit organization that does not pay property taxes on its Manhattan headquarters building. The billionaire owners are mostly egomaniacs. The teams extort public money for stadiums by threatening to relocate.

The 49ers failed to obtain public money for a new stadium so they moved 45 miles away to Santa Clara.

(How can they still be the "San Francisco" 49ers ?)

The NCAA is equally amoral, (see Penn State reinstatement) and operates primarily as a farm system for the NFL,,earning tens of millions while the 'student-athletes' receive nothing.

The players are now so strong, and larger than the median body size, that brain injury is inevitable.

I'm done with football, even though I will still watch the Superbowl, primarily just as a social occasion with friends, (and for the commercials !)

[Alicehunter2000]

Ok....unless the referee was paid off there is no argument.....you can ring your hands and gnash your teeth...but the bottom line is that its the referee's responsibility to check the balls.....unless of course it can be proved that the balls were deflated after the referee had a chance to check them.

According to the league’s rule book, the Wilson brand footballs used in games are required to be inflated to a pressure of 12.5 to 13.5 pounds per square inch and weigh 14 to 15 ounces. The referee is the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with those specifications.

The home team is also required to make 12 backup footballs available for testing, while the visiting team, at its discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the referee for games held in outdoor stadiums.

Referee’s Supervision

A pump is furnished by the home club, and the NFL rule states the approved balls “shall remain under the supervision of the referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.”

If a home team ball doesn’t conform to specifications, or the club’s supply is exhausted, the NFL rule book says the referee “shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball.” Such circumstances must be reported to the commissioner, league rules state.

[Funkthulhu]

And now, your NFL moment of zen: http://youtu.be/OTRmyXX6ipU

[Mandrew968]

Darold, all of your points I agree with. I most strongly agree with the brain trauma issue and Joe Paterno not deserving anything. I, however, am not ready to pull the plug; I will watch and will watch with both my boys. I will not let them play, but that's a bit off topic.

[Darold Petty]

Father-son time sharing is the best.

[Dypsisdean]

I thought it was 2 lbs?

Also, what I read said that they were found to be "under-inflated" at the half and re-inflated by the officials with nothing being said about the second half "inflation".

They could have easily been deflated again.

I think a better question is, who cares?

Probably those who bet several hundred million on the game, and the casinos who gave a point spread. A few points difference means many get cheated out of a fair result.

I heard that this had already been suggested before the game as being done before. And that Brady was quoted once as saying he preferred to play with a slightly under-inflated ball. I also heard that it was brought to the officials attention (with solid proof) after Brady was intercepted, and the ball kept and returned to the Colts sideline.

[trioderob]

coach threw Brady under the bus today -

Edited January 22, 2015 by trioderob

[Moose]

Father-son time sharing is the best.

Agreed - My son and I love to sit and watch our favorite NFL and College teams. I watched football with my Dad and my grandpa as a yonker as well.

Earth to Funky Town - if its on NPR, then it is news. It may not be news that is of interest to you so there is always the volume control or power ceasing devices that may be a benefit to you.

Nebraska does not have any major professional teams in any sport - so you may not have been exposed to following a team for 40+ years through the good and bad times. Some people are very passionate about their team, obviously it matters to them.

By the way, you gotta wait for some one to die to get Green Bay Packers season tickets. That's only if there are none of the heirs want them.

[trioderob]

"NFL has not spoken to me about ball issue"

Brady

[Funkthulhu]

Father-son time sharing is the best.

Agreed - My son and I love to sit and watch our favorite NFL and College teams. I watched football with my Dad and my grandpa as a yonker as well.

Earth to Funky Town - if its on NPR, then it is news. It may not be news that is of interest to you so there is always the volume control or power ceasing devices that may be a benefit to you.

Nebraska does not have any major professional teams in any sport - so you may not have been exposed to following a team for 40+ years through the good and bad times. Some people are very passionate about their team, obviously it matters to them.

By the way, you gotta wait for some one to die to get Green Bay Packers season tickets. That's only if there are none of the heirs want them.

Moose, we have a professional football team that has a century of history and zealot-like fan-base; the Cornhuskers. They're just a little younger than your NFL players (and they don't get paid as much)...

[trioderob]

"I'm not out there squeezing the balls." - Brady

[Moose]

Father-son time sharing is the best.

Agreed - My son and I love to sit and watch our favorite NFL and College teams. I watched football with my Dad and my grandpa as a yonker as well.

Earth to Funky Town - if its on NPR, then it is news. It may not be news that is of interest to you so there is always the volume control or power ceasing devices that may be a benefit to you.

Nebraska does not have any major professional teams in any sport - so you may not have been exposed to following a team for 40+ years through the good and bad times. Some people are very passionate about their team, obviously it matters to them.

By the way, you gotta wait for some one to die to get Green Bay Packers season tickets. That's only if there are none of the heirs want them.

Moose, we have a professional football team that has a century of history and zealot-like fan-base; the Cornhuskers. They're just a little younger than your NFL players (and they don't get paid as much)...

Oh I'm quite aware of those Cornhuskers. In 1983, Sports Illustrated called them the greatest college football team to ever step onto the field. Orange Bowl, Section X, tears rolling down my face as Ken Calhoun knocks down the two point conversion attempt as time expires. The Miami Hurricanes win (1st National Championship), yeah I love those Cornhuskers. Buy the way, been to Rosenblatt Stadium for the College World Series in Omaha.

[Moose]

"I'm not out there squeezing the balls." - Brady

Rob - pay attention - this is not the Stock Market thread