photos: suckering Canary Island Date Palm!

[Sandy Loam]

Attached are two photos of a suckering Canary Island Date Palm which I drove past recently in the village of Madison, northern Florida, just a few km from Georgia. It is obviously very old because the house appears to be at least 100 years old. This tree must be a hybrid with phoenix reclinata for it to be suckering like this, but I don't see any reclinata in it. Do you?

I have a few more photos of this tree coming in a moment.

[Sandy Loam]

more photos of the same suckering CIDP (phoenix canariensis)

[Sandy Loam]

and more photos of the same tree

[Sandy Loam]

last photo of same tree

Edited January 8, 2015 by Sandy Loam

[SailorBold]

Wow...... the trunk looks like it is dactylifera-ish.. or at least the pattern on the trunk does- girth-wise... PD x PC hybrid?

[gyuseppe]

Attached are two photos of a suckering Canary Island Date Palm which I drove past recently in the village of Madison, northern Florida, just a few km from Georgia. It is obviously very old because the house appears to be at least 100 years old. This tree must be a hybrid with phoenix reclinata for it to be suckering like this, but I don't see any reclinata in it. Do you?

I have a few more photos of this tree coming in a moment.

1 photo is phoenix dactylifera

[Sandy Loam]

Guiseppe, the photos are all of the same tree. It is just one tree (with two trunks). It appears that the tree used to have three big trunks, but one was chopped off because it grew too close to the house. Do you think this tree is a phoenix dactylifera?

Wow, I have more problems distinguishing between phoenix palms than I should. I used to think the differences were obvious.

SailorBold --- I have no idea. I agree. The trunk does not look like phoenix canariensis, but the top looks like a canariensis to me. I could be wrong. Maybe it's a hybrid. Maybe not. I am expecting more people to starting posting their identifications on this thread until we get a consensus of what this palm is. (Was hybridization of phoenix palms as prevalent a century ago when this palm was presumably planted?)

Either way, I like this tree and it must be very cold-hardy if it has been growing in Madison, FL for a century, almost on the state line with Georgia (far from the coast and far north too).

[Sandy Loam]

so, hybrid? not hybrid? Somebody out there must be able to ID this tree if it is a hybrid.

Thanks

[Xerarch]

Certainly looks like some kind of hybrid to me, a great find for sure. I can see how you figure there seems to be some canariensis in it. Phoenix palms are notorious hybridizers and they are difficult to pin down for sure. If this thread runs long enough you'll have people suggesting just about everything in the genus as possible parents.

[Ben in Norcal]

I don't know why you say it doesn't look like it has reclinata in it - the fronds look very reclinata-ish to me.

[Sandy Loam]

Thanks everybody. Ithought the fronds looked very much like canary island date palm fronds with that color and the very flat appearance. My reclinatas don't have such a flat leaf as the tree in the photo, but admittedly they are victims of accidental phoenix hybridization too.

Hey, you guys know better than me, so I appreciate the opinions.

Interesting side note: My three reclinatas were sold to me at an indie nursery in Tampa and were all supposed to be pure reclinata. As they grew a bit, it became apparently that they were all phoenix hybrids, each totally different from the others. It seems that you almost never know what you're getting here if you buy a phoenix --- unless, of course, you shop at a big box store like HD. I wonder when our phoenix palms started getting so mixed up here in Florida. It must not have been like this a century or so ago when the tree in the photo was planted.

[Cikas]

These palms are Phoenix dactylifera, not Phoenix canariensis.

[dalmatiansoap]

I would go for RxC if we look the trunk and leave details. Great looking plant however.

[Phoenikakias]

I go also for a hybrid, imo D x C !

[Sandy Loam]

Also, I suppose that a pure phoenix dactylifera would also have that more "sparse" look on the fronds, by contrast with this tree whose fronds have the "dense" look of a phoenix canariensis. However, I really have no idea. I am not very good at identifying phoenix palms.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Did you see the others around the madison courthouse? Those have been there for 20+ years easily. Those look to be pure CID. Just as a reference, I live 20 miles south and killed over 500 pure reclintatas trying to grow them.

[Josh-O]

Defiantly a phoenix Dac. not sure its a hybrid?

[Alicehunter2000]

Hybrid.....DxC or CxD

A similar one in Melbourne Fl. .....had a nice small plant from it growing at neighbors. ...killed by last years Polar Vortex

[Josh-O]

the words "polar vortex" scares me

[The7thLegend]

Phoenix Dactylifera x Canariensis

[Eric in Orlando]

Since it is in Florid,a it is probably a hybrid crossed with another hybrid.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Around here, I've seen many Phoenix, and other genus for that matter, that are single stemmed that have had seed germinate under them that "created" a clumping palm. It's possible the palm in question is P. canariensis X dactylifera but the leaves and trunk pattern don't look at all like pure dactylifera which have grayer leaves and a thin "lumpy" trunk. The pictured palm is also nowhere near a century old. It looks more like about 25 years old. Any 100 year old house can have anything from a seedling to a 100 year old tree in its garden.

[redbeard917]

I remember thinking when I saw this palm it must be canariensis x dactylifera. Now I'm leaning toward the "hybrid x hybrid". Especially since it's from further south. I think it is at the McDonald's on the Fowler Rd exit off 275 in Tampa. Opinions?

[The7thLegend]

I remember thinking when I saw this palm it must be canariensis x dactylifera. Now I'm leaning toward the "hybrid x hybrid". Especially since it's from further south. I think it is at the McDonald's on the Fowler Rd exit off 275 in Tampa. Opinions?

I think you are correct, hybrid x hybrid. I was at that very location just a week ago and seen an overwhelming amount... and variety of Phoenix palms in that area. I'm sure there is a lot of crossing going on.

[Josh-O]

I remember thinking when I saw this palm it must be canariensis x dactylifera. Now I'm leaning toward the "hybrid x hybrid". Especially since it's from further south. I think it is at the McDonald's on the Fowler Rd exit off 275 in Tampa. Opinions?

What ever it is its very cool looking!

[Sandy Loam]

While we're on the topic of unusual hybrid phoenix palms in Florida, has anyone noticed the many suckering phoenix palms planted sporadically down the centre of the Reagan Turnpike/Florida Turnpike, starting about 40 minutes south of Kissimmee, FL? Does anyone know the trees I am talking about? They all look like some sort of phoenix robelleni hybrid on steroids I don't have a photo with me now but I may be able to come up with one. To the best of my memory, they may have been a cross between phoenix canariensis and phoenix robelleni. I am driving down there on Monday, so will try to take a look and possibly some photos.

In any case, they are worth a look because they are unusual. The first time I saw those trees, I thought they were some sort of phoenix reclinata hybrid. If you have photos of those trees, please post them for identification purposes. Thanks.

[gyuseppe]

While we're on the topic of unusual hybrid phoenix palms in Florida, has anyone noticed the many suckering phoenix palms planted sporadically down the centre of the Reagan Turnpike/Florida Turnpike, starting about 40 minutes south of Kissimmee, FL? Does anyone know the trees I am talking about? They all look like some sort of phoenix robelleni hybrid on steroids I don't have a photo with me now but I may be able to come up with one. To the best of my memory, they may have been a cross between phoenix canariensis and phoenix robelleni. I am driving down there on Monday, so will try to take a look and possibly some photos.

In any case, they are worth a look because they are unusual. The first time I saw those trees, I thought they were some sort of phoenix reclinata hybrid. If you have photos of those trees, please post them for identification purposes. Thanks.

I am very interested to see photos of these

if there are seeds, I will thank you very much, if you pick up some for me

[Sandy Loam]

Back to this thread again ---

Since we're playing NAME THAT PHOENIX, I have some more photos to throw into the mix. Some may be pure and some may be hybrids. Let me know what you think each might be. To me, a few of these photos look like pure phoenix reclinata, but the others might be some sort of hybrids. Here you go.

Each picture is uploaded as a separate posting. If two photos appear in the same posting, it will be a second photos of the same palm -- e.g. close-up of trunk photo of same tree.

[Sandy Loam]

Second tree

[Sandy Loam]

Third tree

[Sandy Loam]

Fourth tree

[Sandy Loam]

Fifth tree

[Sandy Loam]

Sixth tree

[Sandy Loam]

Seventh tree

[Phoenikakias]

Ok, let me give a try with every reservation due to possible hybridization.

#1 reclinata

#2 CIDP

#3 ditto

#4 if they are clumping reclinata or reclinatoides lol

#5 rupicola or rupicoloides lol

#6 CIDP

#7 ditto as #4

Because I have a reputation to consider, I must protest against bad quality of some pictures and lack of details! lol, lol

[Sandy Loam]

Hell Phoenikakias. Would you change your answer about #6 if I told you that the trunk was fairly slim and was quite curved (sorry, this is hard to see in the photo; you really have to enlarge it).

Thanks for your input.

[Phoenikakias]

Nope! Except it is a hybrid with CIDP in it!

[gyuseppe]

Ok, let me give a try with every reservation due to possible hybridization.

#1 reclinata

#2 CIDP

#3 ditto

#4 if they are clumping reclinata or reclinatoides lol

#5 rupicola or rupicoloides lol

#6 CIDP

#7 ditto as #4

Because I have a reputation to consider, I must protest against bad quality of some pictures and lack of details! lol, lol

Konstantinos I was waiting for your opinion on the photo No. 5

seems rupicola x canariensis

(from what I have seen, in the botanical garden of Naples, pure rupicola has very thin trunk ,longest leaves and drooping)

[Phoenikakias]

Yes Giuseppe, that's why I wrote or rupicoloides implying this way the possibility of a hybrid with rupicola in it. However there is somewhere a not so old topic here about some rupicola specimens being especially robust. Petioles on this specimen remind me in nothing of a CIDP! But who knows?

[Eric in Orlando]

I've seen those palms down the Turnpike many: many times. They are definitely hybrids crossed with hybrids. There used to be more of them but about 15 years ago there was an outbreak of ganoderma that killed several entire clumps. Since then I haven't seen any dying. There are also the oddball single trunked specimens at the service plazas.