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Some N Florida palm pictures


tank

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Some pictures from my old house. The new owners are close friends.

All have seen 17f as recorded in the yard.

Sabal uresana (right) and S domengensis (left)

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Phoenix loureirii

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Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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wow, 17F that what I call cold.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Nice!

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Does your S. urseana burn around 25 ?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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None of the 6 or so S. uresanas I have at my new and old houses have ever shown cold damage. They have all experienced temps into the mid to upper teens (F).

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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The "Home Depot" pic is of a queen purchased from a big box store and given to me by someone as a gift because they knew I liked palms. Nothing special about it. Definitely has seen damage in the past but has never been defoliated and seems to get less damage as it gets taller. Sailed through the polar blast of 2010 with minimal damage. Guess its in a nice spot. Was intended to be a pollen source for future mules. Now the things are so cheap, doubt I'd even bother doing it again. Not sure how it got rotated, although I did post it from my phone.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Trachycarpus martianus

This thing is really slow with some leaves nearly circular and some not so much. Seed was purchased through RPS.

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T. wagnerianus

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Queen with a mess of Livistona nitida and seranoa

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Silver seranoa flowering

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Miscellaneous views

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Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Thanks for the views, Tank. The new owners will thank you even more in another decade or so.

Are Sabal Domingensis supposed to be trunking after 7 years from seed? I don't think I noticed a trunk on the second sabal domingensis, but the first one seemed big enough that it might have had some trunk (hard to tell from the photo though). I keep reading that sabal domingensis and sabal riverside grow at lightning speed ----- for sabals, at least.

Your friends' house is obviously proof that sabal domingensis can tolerate 17 degrees. Some reports seem to differ about its maximum low tolerance. Were the domingensis damaged-looking when the mercury briefly hit 17 degrees in 2010?

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Tank, are you sure you have the real domingensis? I know it was not until Montgomery sent their team down to the DR to get seeds, did they finally have the real deal--the ones they thought were the real deal had all turned out to be causiarum(you have to check for ligules--and if you have them, domingensis it's not!). I am not sure, but maybe domingensis is much more rare than we all think--talking to Chad Husby(one of the scientists to make the trip) he said that domingensis is HUGE(I saw some photos that can back up his claim) and is probably the largest Sabal species, after causiarum.

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Maybe the growth rate at Tank's friends' home could also be an indicator. I have read that Sabal Causiarum is notoriously slow-growing whereas Sabal Domingensis is quite fast-growing -- for a sabal palm, that is.

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Seed was bought as S. domingensis from RPS. Also have causiarum purchased from RPS. Have obtained both species as seed from other sources. Representatives of each species look the same, so I have two distinctly different plants that have similar representatives from very different seed sources.

My S. domingensis have large ligules, the leaf color tends towards a light green to blueish hue. The early leaves have a distinct split into two sections. These are faster than my other sabals. My largest plant is rought 12' overall and is quite a bit larger than S. palmetto in all aspects at this age. Its is less hardy (at least leaf hardy) than the "S. causiarum" that I am growing

My S. causiarum have a general appearance of S. palmetto but are much larger plants in all aspects. Leaves tend to a deep grey/green. Any ligules they have are very small and look more like fibrous webbing than papery ligules. It is hardier than my S. domingensis plants but much less hardy than S. palmetto. I lost all of my established in the ground plants in exposed locations when they saw temps into the mid teens (these plants were all about 4 or 5 years old. These plants will experience leaf damage with temps in the upper teens.

What ever my S. domingensis is, it is, IMHO a more distinct sabal, at least at the "teenager" stage than S. palmetto, my "S. causiarum" and the S. maritima that I have or am growing. I assume S. maritima will start taking on its distinct look as it gets older. S. maritima appears to be less hardy than either of what I am calling S. domingensis or S. causiarum.

I will post some closeups of what I (and RPS) am calling S. domingensis later today.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Tank, if it has ligules, then it is a causiarum. Dr. Larry Noblick used this sole indicator to positively ID all of his domingensis as causiarum. It may be that domingensis is a much more rare palm than we all previously thought(probably due to Sabals looking all alike and being very slow)...

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So.... My domingensis is now causiarum....

and my causiarum is now domingensis (I'll go with this now and confirm when one of them throws up an inflorescence).

I read the thread where this was discussed and saw the little blurb on the Fairchild website about the switch. Is he planning on writing a paper on this as I think some folks need to switch their tags on these plants. I know the local BG, Kanapaha has both of these species. I'll have to go looking for ligules and see if they are keyed out correctly. I was checking out the photos on "Dave's Garden" of S. causiarum and it looks like they have examples of both S. domingensis (or something else) and causiarum represented as causiarum.

Also, the big sabal on the UF campus has been id'ed as causiarum. I suppose me or someone else should get a spotting scope and see if we can find some ligules on that big fella.

Apparently causiarum is now a "fast" growing sabal, at least for me.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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The main difference between causiarum and domingensis is the ligules--causiarum has them and domingensis doesn't(no other sabal species has ligules like causiarum does). If you have the real domingensis, it will soon(well, maybe not soon!) show itself in the form of hugeness--I think they have a bluish cast to them as well--hope you do!

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Nonetheless, Tank has two very distinguishable plants that were sold to him (as RPS seed), respectively, as as "domengensis" and "causiarum". It would be interesting to compare and contrast the other species in photos -- I mean, the ones that were actually labelled "causiarum" when sold to Tank just to see the difference. Are there possibly two different types of causiarum? Just a thought.

Tank, you don't have to post photos of the other species (and no rush anyway), but it might be fun to compare in case you find the time.

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I'm not convinced that causiarum is the only Sabal with Lingules. I have a friend, who is a well known palm collector, that has a S. Domingensis. His palm is a rocket, and one of the faster Sabals for our climate. His palm was grown from habitat collected seed, and there were representative species in the local botanical garden. His palm has lingules.

There are a number of other traits that differentiate the two. I consider Dr. Zona to be the leading authority in the area, and obviously much more knowledgeable than myself on the topic - perhaps he will chime in.

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Trachycarpus martianus

This thing is really slow with some leaves nearly circular and some not so much. Seed was purchased through RPS.

old1.JPG

old2.JPG

T. wagnerianus

old6.JPG

Queen with a mess of Livistona nitida and seranoa

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Silver seranoa flowering

old3.JPG

Miscellaneous views

old4.JPG

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Stuff looks great Jason. How old is your silver Serenoa? I have a green one and it grows well - but slow.

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I'm not convinced that causiarum is the only Sabal with Lingules. I have a friend, who is a well known palm collector, that has a S. Domingensis. His palm is a rocket, and one of the faster Sabals for our climate. His palm was grown from habitat collected seed, and there were representative species in the local botanical garden. His palm has lingules.

There are a number of other traits that differentiate the two. I consider Dr. Zona to be the leading authority in the area, and obviously much more knowledgeable than myself on the topic - perhaps he will chime in.

If he chimed in, it would go like this, "your friend's Sabal is a causiarum."

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Potential S. domingensis, suppose I won't know for sure until it flowers.

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Tank, the color of your S. Dom is beautifull..! I have some 5 gal's which I think are S. Dom but i'm not sure. I'll post s couple pic's when the rain stops and hopefully you guys can tell me what they are?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Seranoas are probably 8 or 9 years old. They were planted as 3 gal plants. I imagine S. repens is probably really slow for you folks in Cali. They like lots of heat and moisture (at the same time).

There is a great nursery 4 or 5 miles west of I-75 here in Gville that has nearly white seranoas. They are wholesale but will let pretty much anyone buy but you place your order ahead of time and they pull the material, no browsing. I insist on picking out my own silver seranoas because they will usually pull the ones on the greener side as they are almost always the largest (with the fellows pulling the plants assuming that you want the largest ones available). The nearly white ones are inevitably the smallest.

http://www.tropictraditions.com/nursery/image-gallery.dot

They have really nice needle palms as well.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Seranoas are probably 8 or 9 years old. They were planted as 3 gal plants. I imagine S. repens is probably really slow for you folks in Cali. They like lots of heat and moisture (at the same time).

There is a great nursery 4 or 5 miles west of I-75 here in Gville that has nearly white seranoas. They are wholesale but will let pretty much anyone buy but you place your order ahead of time and they pull the material, no browsing. I insist on picking out my own silver seranoas because they will usually pull the ones on the greener side as they are almost always the largest (with the fellows pulling the plants assuming that you want the largest ones available). The nearly white ones are inevitably the smallest.

http://www.tropictraditions.com/nursery/image-gallery.dot

They have really nice needle palms as well.

That speaks to what I have suspected, but have recently read to the contrary--that the green is faster than the silver.

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Seranoas are probably 8 or 9 years old. They were planted as 3 gal plants. I imagine S. repens is probably really slow for you folks in Cali. They like lots of heat and moisture (at the same time).

There is a great nursery 4 or 5 miles west of I-75 here in Gville that has nearly white seranoas. They are wholesale but will let pretty much anyone buy but you place your order ahead of time and they pull the material, no browsing. I insist on picking out my own silver seranoas because they will usually pull the ones on the greener side as they are almost always the largest (with the fellows pulling the plants assuming that you want the largest ones available). The nearly white ones are inevitably the smallest.

http://www.tropictraditions.com/nursery/image-gallery.dot

They have really nice needle palms as well.

Jason, I think I went there once and just started wandering around, LOL...then someone asked if they could help me and I said I was just looking and they looked at me weird. They did have some really nice Needle Palms there.

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I have a key to the vegetative differences --- I got it at one of the Palm Beach PS meetings will share ----- theres a few other indicators ---- I collected some seeds from DR north coast in 88 ----- S. domingensis seeds are much bigger than S. causerium ----

Best regards

Ed

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I have a key to the vegetative differences --- I got it at one of the Palm Beach PS meetings will share ----- theres a few other indicators ---- I collected some seeds from DR north coast in 88 ----- S. domingensis seeds are much bigger than S. causerium ----

Best regards

Ed

Ed, are you growing either species?

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I have them and a bunch another Sabals it took foreever but they are up to fruiting size. I was sure of the identify until I got the key at fhe Palmbeach Plam society meeting. just speculation but the key was good in sorting everything out

I hope to get down to south FL when I get a few nickels rubbed together to afford a trip --- and see the FTG and Montgomery gardens again

Best regards

Ed

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Nonetheless, Tank has two very distinguishable plants that were sold to him (as RPS seed), respectively, as as "domengensis" and "causiarum". It would be interesting to compare and contrast the other species in photos -- I mean, the ones that were actually labelled "causiarum" when sold to Tank just to see the difference. Are there possibly two different types of causiarum? Just a thought.

Tank, you don't have to post photos of the other species (and no rush anyway), but it might be fun to compare in case you find the time.

I'll try and post a comparison in the spring. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and both plants won't get cooked.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Why no bermudana? IMO, the nicest Sabal.

I have one of these at the new house. Only about 4ft tall and not much to look at right now.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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My big "causerium"? has papery ligules but got brown tipped at 25 degrees this year..........? what's up with that?post-97-0-21365100-1418421156_thumb.jpg

Pay no attention to Polar Vortex damage from last year

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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My big "causerium"? has papery ligules but got brown tipped at 25 degrees this year..........? what's up with that? 20141203_081535.jpg

Pay no attention to Polar Vortex damage from last year

Do you think it might be S. domingensis, which is rumored to be much less hardy? Most reports that I've seen show larger S. causiarum to remain unscathed into the teens - maybe lower teens.

I believe S. domingensis has a fuller, lighter green crown than S. causiarum.

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Seranoas are probably 8 or 9 years old. They were planted as 3 gal plants. I imagine S. repens is probably really slow for you folks in Cali. They like lots of heat and moisture (at the same time).

There is a great nursery 4 or 5 miles west of I-75 here in Gville that has nearly white seranoas. They are wholesale but will let pretty much anyone buy but you place your order ahead of time and they pull the material, no browsing. I insist on picking out my own silver seranoas because they will usually pull the ones on the greener side as they are almost always the largest (with the fellows pulling the plants assuming that you want the largest ones available). The nearly white ones are inevitably the smallest.

http://www.tropictraditions.com/nursery/image-gallery.dot

They have really nice needle palms as well.

Thanks for the background Jason. I still need to pick up a silver one. A few PT members referred a few mail order places. One day...

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