Any 9a Palms Left to be Discovered?

[Xerarch]

One of the exciting things about palms is there are still undiscovered species, places like Madagascar and the mountains of South America may still harbor some exciting things to find. But I have to wonder, will we see the likes of Washingtonia robusta and Phoenix canariensis again? (from a hardiness and general adaptability point of view).

Will every new discovery require either a tropical climate or maybe a mild and cool coastal California climate? It would really be exciting to find something new that people could grow in more marginal areas. I know, I'm asking a lot, but hey, why not dream?

[awkonradi]

Maybe some more 9a hybrids to be bred? I still like the idea of genetic engineering.

[Eric in Orlando]

Probably best bets would be in southern China, southern Brazil/Argentina and Australia.

[Alicehunter2000]

Good topic Ammon....I feel like I'm running out of species to try.....guess not any yard left anyway. But the hybrid rout is an interesting one. Would really like to see Chameodorea radicalis and microspadix being used more for hybrid attempts. Pinate hybrids using something other than Butia are probably not hardy enough to be of any use. Or...of course a new discovery would be fantastic. ..just don't see it happening.

[Halekuma]

Maybe not 9a but are plenty of 9b palms that grow in Colombia at high altitude that rarely are seen out of the country... Also the same species can grow at different altitudes and habitats in the same country (just like happens with Syagrus Rommanzoffiana and var. Santa Catarina) showing different cold hardiness due to its origin... Geonoma Undata is a clear example. I have seen Geonoma Undata in Bogota looking perfect while I have seen the same palm at some mountains of Antioquia department (lower altitude) and they dont look even similar in colour and look. Im pretty sure there are Dyctocaryum Lamarckianum growing at very high altitutdes too while the palms we usually see in nurseries are of the mid elevation variety...

One palm that really intrigues me is Aiphanes Concinna growing at 3000 m in Cundinamarca department but I have never been able to even see it in habitat... That palm should be a quite cold (or at least very cool) hardy palm...

[Xerarch]

One of the issues with these high altitude species that have some cold tolerance is that they don't have heat tolerance. So at least in this country, most of the places that might be in the 9a/9b range get too hot in the summer. For example, the only place that you can grow things like Ceroxylon or Rhopalostylis, is the west coast of California, where the minimum temps aren't an issue anyway. So it seems like sort of a "waste" of cold hardiness if you can't use it anywhere because of the heat intolerance.

If some of these mountain species also showed some tolerance to heat that would be really exciting, Syagrus is a good example where heat tolerance doesn't seem to be lost with extra cold hardiness

[Darold Petty]

This would be a really long shot, Geonoma trigona. "Central Peruvian Andes (Huánuco, Pasco) shrubby, xeromorphic vegetation locally called 'pajonales' at 2650-2800 meters elevation" "Strongly leathery foliage'', on page 235 from 'Field Guide to Palms of the Americas' by Henderson et al.

Perhaps the combination of high, dry, with leathery foliage might make a surprisingly tough plant ?

I feel this species would grow in California. Any seed donations would be gratefully accepted !

[JMBreland]

Would really like to see Chameodorea radicalis and microspadix being used more for hybrid attempts.

I have a F1 hybrid here at the zoo that I will plant out this spring. Gulf Coast Palm Society (coastal MS, coastal AL, and western FL panhandle) members hybridize those species and produce both F1 and F2 hybrids. That's how I acquired one.

[JMBreland]

I personally would like to see microspadix and radicalis hybridized with the less hardy Chamaedoreas. The results would be interesting.

[_Keith]

I am thinking China must have some 9a stuff not yet on the market.

[_Keith]

I failed miserably with Chamaedorea klotzschiana , but not due to cold. It held up to 2010 and last year just fine.

[Sandy Loam]

According to Palmpedia. Chamaedorea Woodsoniana is supposed to be a zone 9a palm already. However, I have never tried it even though I am supposedly in zone 9a. I would love to see if hybridized with the trunking form of chamaedorea radicalis (allegedly tolerates 15 degrees). That would be a gorgeous palm with presumed improved cold-hardiness and much taller than the usual trunk chamaedorea radicalis.

[JMBreland]

Chamaedorea woodsoniana would be something to try at the zoo. Thanks for the suggestion!

Keith, what caused your Chamaedorea klotzschiana to fail?

Edited December 11, 2014 by JMBreland

[Alicehunter2000]

According to Palmpedia. Chamaedorea Woodsoniana is supposed to be a zone 9a palm already. However, I have never tried it even though I am supposedly in zone 9a. I would love to see if hybridized with the trunking form of chamaedorea radicalis (allegedly tolerates 15 degrees). That would be a gorgeous palm with presumed improved cold-hardiness and much taller than the usual trunk chamaedorea radicalis.

Bought 2 Woodsoniana from a friend with the hopes that one is a male and could try just what you suggested....got just the C. radicalis for it...flowers profusely.

[_Keith]

Chamaedorea woodsoniana would be something to try at the zoo. Thanks for the suggestion!

Keith, what caused your Chamaedorea klotzschiana to fail?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I planted a klotzschiana. Then I totally forgot about it for several years. After last years freezes I was amazed to see it still there. And although I was trying to kill it from total neglect, it was actually the cleanup effort from the weather damage that did it in. A mower got stuck nearby and then attempt to get it out the operator ground it under the wheels. Sadly I don't think it's coming back from that one.

[smithgn]

I am thinking China must have some 9a stuff not yet on the market.

Will have to check the black market, then

[Josh-O]

beccariophoenix alfredii is a winner!!

[Ben in Norcal]

beccariophoenix alfredii is a winner!!

Josh, I can't see this in 9a. Seedlings take pretty good damage in warm 9b for me. I am hoping my large plant does better this year.

[JMBreland]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I planted a klotzschiana. Then I totally forgot about it for several years. After last years freezes I was amazed to see it still there. And although I was trying to kill it from total neglect, it was actually the cleanup effort from the weather damage that did it in. A mower got stuck nearby and then attempt to get it out the operator ground it under the wheels. Sadly I don't think it's coming back from that one.

Yeow. That's got to hurt.

[Sandy Loam]

Hey AliceHunter, if you don't mind me asking, where did you find a Chamaedorea Woodsoniana for sale? I would love to get my hands on one. On DavesGarden, I read PalmBob's entry saying that when you find this palm for sale, it is often mismarked and ends up being a suckering chamaedorea (real C. Woodsoniana doesn't sucker).

[PalmnutVN]

Some of the lesser known palms that can be found in the north of Vietnam must be pretty cold hardy as it gets quite chilly up there in the winter. Getting hold of seed isn't going to be an easy task though......

That said, I'm off up to Cat Ba next summer, to see if I can get my hands on some Livistona halongensis seed

[Alicehunter2000]

Hey AliceHunter, if you don't mind me asking, where did you find a Chamaedorea Woodsoniana for sale? I would love to get my hands on one. On DavesGarden, I read PalmBob's entry saying that when you find this palm for sale, it is often mismarked and ends up being a suckering chamaedorea (real C. Woodsoniana doesn't sucker).

I got mine from a friend who grew from seed....RPS...Toby. So far they definitely do not look like my other Chamaedorea.

Noticed that nursery down in Homestead that just got reviewed had some for sale.

[John Case]

Agreed....25 with protection seems to be its limit.....

[Sandy Loam]

Oh yeah, I should have thought of Homestead. Thanks for the suggestion, AliceHunter.

Hey, I realize that you're not close to Homestead, Florida (neither am I), but sometimes when I am down in Miami I make sure that my car is empty for the drive back and it's always worth it. If you haven't driven around Homestead/Goulds/region, it is quite amazing how you can buy absolutely any plant down there. Every nursery will post that they are "wholesale", but when you drive up with cash in hand, they all seem to sell to individuals -- although sometimes you may need to speak Spanish. (Botanical names of plants are the same in both language, fortunately)

For palms, there seem to be a bunch of good spots in the Homestead area -- Action Theory nursery, Redland Nursery, many others, and the deals are amazing. The last time I was down there, I went to Going Bananas nursery which sells nothing but unusual banana trees. It's like being in another world walking up and down giant rows of huge 16-foot banana trees with rhyzomes suckering out to the size of most living rooms.

Unfortunately, most of those Homestead, FL nurseries don't post their price lists online. However, you can sometimes find out inventory before you head down south by just Googling the following: site:plantant.com "dypsis decipiens"

Just substitute "dypsis decipiens" with whatever plant you are looking for by botanical name in quotes. A whole bunch of the nurseries listed on plantant.com are in Homestead and region, and you don't need a plantant.com password if you search through the backdoor of Google, it seems.

...just a little unsolicited advice for any Floridians out there who are looking for rare palms/plants and don't have the patience to order RPS seed.

[Alicehunter2000]

Great Info...thanks