should I remove my 2 Washingtonia Robusta?

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

I have a new palm garden, started planting in late May 2014. Among my first purchases were 2 15 gallon Washingtonia Robusta. I wasn't aware of some of the issues with them such as the eventual expenses in trimming plus the possibility of falling leaves damaging other trees. I've recently made some purchases and need more space and I'm thinking of removing them. They're about 25 gallon size with about 12 leaves each. They look good now but are still a manageable enough size for me to remove them. What do you guys think? thanks

[Ben in Norcal]

Get them out of there while you can still do so yourself/cheaply. You'll want the space for stuff you don't see all around town, IMO.

Mine met the chipper a few years back.

[Kostas]

I would leave them as they grow fast, trouble free and become beautiful tall landmarks IMO. They don't take much space once overhead so there isn't any significant gain by removing them. Even though I grow various unusual species, I cherish my 2 W. robusta and actually have plans for adding 4 more.

Trimming is not needed once overhead and leafs start to dehisce by themselves if you remove the old leaf bases left behind from older trimmings. So you get a nice self cleaning palm(at least in my climate with 1m of rain a year) and no trimming bills. I guess nearby fragile plants may be damaged by falling leafs but most palms of that size do that, it's not Washie specific. Plus Washingtonia dead leafs are pretty light compared to other palms.

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

I would leave them as they grow fast, trouble free and become beautiful tall landmarks IMO. They don't take much space once overhead so there isn't any significant gain by removing them. Even though I grow various unusual species, I cherish my 2 W. robusta and actually have plans for adding 4 more.

Trimming is not needed once overhead and leafs start to dehisce by themselves if you remove the old leaf bases left behind from older trimmings. So you get a nice self cleaning palm(at least in my climate with 1m of rain a year) and no trimming bills. I guess nearby fragile plants may be damaged by falling leafs but most palms of that size do that, it's not Washie specific. Plus Washingtonia dead leafs are pretty light compared to other palms.

Trimming is not needed once overhead? I hadn't heard that before. I see so many with petticoats.

[Kostas]

Once the canopy gets overhead, if you pull the old leaf bases below the latest row of hanging, dead leafs, gravity and weather do the rest and the palm becomes self cleaning from then on in most species. Washingtonia robusta only keep 1-2 rows of dead leafs at a time in Pyrgos and trunk is all clean. You only see petticoats in very very few specimen who never had the lower leaf bases removed, and even in these, the petticoats usually collapse at some point.

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

a related question would be, for those of you have taller Washingtonia Robusta, how much does it cost to have the leaves and trunk trimmed. If I'm going to keep them, I'd plan on having the trunk cleaned and dead fronds removed...

[Patrick]

I made the decision years ago when planning my yard to enjoy Washingtonias and Phoenix canarensis in OTHER people's yards. I've been happy with that decision.

[Ben in Norcal]

I'm with Patrick. These guys take up a lot of ground room as well with their flared bases, and offer no canopy. With 4 bajillion around here, I don't need to take up my footprint with them.

[Moose]

Pete - are you trying to convince yourself to leave them? You said you needed the space, then you know you what needs to happen. Take it from someone that has let some palms that require maintenance get very large. Its not all that fun, especially when you are advancing age wise. I don't trust knuckleheads to come on my property, they always create more damage then the benefit of their work. Here in South Florida most "gardeners and tree trimmers" actually hate plants.

[Palmdude]

Where I live in Florida you could get someone to trim a big washie for 40/45 bucks a piece, seems everything is way more expensive in California.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

I like them and would keep them but I have plenty of room and we don't have them everywhere here as in your area. If you need the space, then you need it. It is not as tough to me as the maintenance on all my live oaks.

Edited November 26, 2014 by bbrantley

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

Pete - are you trying to convince yourself to leave them? You said you needed the space, then you know you what needs to happen. Take it from someone that has let some palms that require maintenance get very large. Its not all that fun, especially when you are advancing age wise. I don't trust knuckleheads to come on my property, they always create more damage then the benefit of their work. Here in South Florida most "gardeners and tree trimmers" actually hate plants.

I'm leaning towards removing them and you guys are giving me more reasons to...

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

Pete - are you trying to convince yourself to leave them? You said you needed the space, then you know you what needs to happen. Take it from someone that has let some palms that require maintenance get very large. Its not all that fun, especially when you are advancing age wise. I don't trust knuckleheads to come on my property, they always create more damage then the benefit of their work. Here in South Florida most "gardeners and tree trimmers" actually hate plants.

I'm leaning towards removing them and you guys are giving me more reasons to...

the worst part would be damage to other trees

[Ben in Norcal]

If you want a Washingtonia, get a nice filifera. More attractive tree IMO and not enough of them around.

[Moose]

Pete - are you trying to convince yourself to leave them? You said you needed the space, then you know you what needs to happen. Take it from someone that has let some palms that require maintenance get very large. Its not all that fun, especially when you are advancing age wise. I don't trust knuckleheads to come on my property, they always create more damage then the benefit of their work. Here in South Florida most "gardeners and tree trimmers" actually hate plants.

I'm leaning towards removing them and you guys are giving me more reasons to...

the worst part would be damage to other trees

Lets see some photos of the palms in question. Transplanting and removing are two different issues. I've sliced and diced large queen palms with very little damage to surrounding plants. Know the principles of gravity and apply them.

[Pando]

Trimming is not needed once overhead and leafs start to dehisce by themselves if you remove the old leaf bases left behind from older trimmings. So you get a nice self cleaning palm(at least in my climate with 1m of rain a year) and no trimming bills. I guess nearby fragile plants may be damaged by falling leafs but most palms of that size do that, it's not Washie specific. Plus Washingtonia dead leafs are pretty light compared to other palms.

That may be true in Greece, but here in San Diego's dry weather the washies retain the petticoat nearly forever. Once they go beyond the reach of a pole saw, you need to hire a maintenance crew at least once every 2 years or so for a few hundred $$ every time, or you'll have a liability with HOAs due to fire and rodent danger. You will also need to skin them eventually. The good thing about it is that if the palm is close to the street or sidewalk, there is very little danger of a falling frond hitting a car or a person accidentally, which is much more likely with palms with crownshafts. Queen palms are in the same category, although they don't get as tall.

The bases get fat, so they need some room. They also have very fine, but extensive root systems that go way beyond the base of the palm. This fine-mesh root system sucks up all the moisture from the soil much more efficiently than all your more exotic stuff planted in a a 20 foot radius around them. Those will need extra water, which eventually just makes the washie to grow faster.

I have 3 large ones up front, planted by a previous owner. Two of them are 40 feet tall, and one is about half that. It costs me $1400 to remove them all, but I'm leaving them to be for now as they do give some nice height to the yard. If I had to redo it, I would never plant them in my yard, considering all the thousands of much nicer palm species available now.

I would say take them out when you still can, and plant some Dypsis that will be quite valuable when they get large.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Pando

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

Pete - are you trying to convince yourself to leave them? You said you needed the space, then you know you what needs to happen. Take it from someone that has let some palms that require maintenance get very large. Its not all that fun, especially when you are advancing age wise. I don't trust knuckleheads to come on my property, they always create more damage then the benefit of their work. Here in South Florida most "gardeners and tree trimmers" actually hate plants.

I'm leaning towards removing them and you guys are giving me more reasons to...

the worst part would be damage to other trees

Lets see some photos of the palms in question. Transplanting and removing are two different issues. I've sliced and diced large queen palms with very little damage to surrounding plants. Know the principles of gravity and apply them.

I'm not in a spot where I can post photos right now. Transplant is not an option for me as I've literally run out of space....

[Stevetoad]

one thing i can tell you is as your palm obsession grows youll be removing them in a few years any way. i say give them the ax and plant something nicer in there spot. in 3 years you will be very happy you did.

[Hammer]

I'm not a fan. The tremendous amount of seeds they produce and the resulting increase in weeding...just not worth it, imo. Jim in Los Altos has kept some in his garden and his place is gorgeous. So I guess it means you have to prioritize your wish list and see what that direction it points you.

For my money, there are much better looking fan palms out there.

[Darold Petty]

Hi Pete, remove them now, before they get larger.

[Kostas]

Here both W. robusta and Syagrus are self cleaning once tall enough for their leafs to hang down freely Maybe 1 in 30 W. robusta in western Peloponese(rainy area) has a peticoat and that's just luck. Had they been cleaned a little when younger, they would have clean skinny trunks too. In Athens they usually self clean as well If leafs are not routinely cut.

Rain probably helps with leaf base detachment, so in drier climates it's probably different

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

Hi Pete, remove them now, before they get larger.

it seems a no brainer at this point. I just ordered some 25 gallon pots I'll be putting them in.

[Pando]

If you can sell them now that's good. Not the case next year when it takes more $$ to remove them than what they are worth. Man, they grow insanely fast.

[DoomsDave]

Pete, remove the Washies. They're best in someone else's yard.

They're spiny, they're hard to keep neat, and they drop seeds all over the place, and volunteers pop up.

Eat the hearts! They're good. Pickle them with sesame oil and hot pepper and vinegar.

There are plenty of other fan palms, including Braheas and Sabals.

(Hope you can make it to the PSSC Banquet in January!)

[Darold Petty]

Yah, what Dave said. Accept the dollar loss for purchase as just a gardening cost, but don't invest any more $ or labor, (eat the heart, some are really good !)

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

thanks everyone for the advice!

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

one thing i can tell you is as your palm obsession grows youll be removing them in a few years any way. i say give them the ax and plant something nicer in there spot. in 3 years you will be very happy you did.

I have a bunch of 5g palms I just bought that I can choose from to fill in there: Beccariophoenix Alfredii, Livistona Decipiens, Sabal Mauritiiformis, Dypsis Ambositrae, Archontophoenix Beatrice, Coccothrinax Barbadensis...Space is now at a premium...I'm also going to remove a Butia Capitata and pot it up. I can't believe how small my yard seems now that I'm a palm addict....

[trioderob]

yes

[DoomsDave]

one thing i can tell you is as your palm obsession grows youll be removing them in a few years any way. i say give them the ax and plant something nicer in there spot. in 3 years you will be very happy you did.

I have a bunch of 5g palms I just bought that I can choose from to fill in there: Beccariophoenix Alfredii, Livistona Decipiens, Sabal Mauritiiformis, Dypsis Ambositrae, Archontophoenix Beatrice, Coccothrinax Barbadensis...Space is now at a premium...I'm also going to remove a Butia Capitata and pot it up. I can't believe how small my yard seems now that I'm a palm addict....

Come and visit a few gardens and see how the space issue is resolved.

Plant a fast, tall type near a shorter slower type for canopy (as long as short and slow takes some shade).

[Ben in Norcal]

If you can sell them now that's good. Not the case next year when it takes more $$ to remove them than what they are worth. Man, they grow insanely fast.

SELL a Washie? Isn't that the folly of the Craigslist hordes? I always get a good kick out of people thinking they can sell them on there...particularly at a Canary price.

The greenwaste bin is your friend...

[Moose]

Yah, what Dave said. Accept the dollar loss for purchase as just a gardening cost, but don't invest any more $ or labor, (eat the heart, some are really good !)

Kill it before it grows !

[MattyB]

one thing i can tell you is as your palm obsession grows youll be removing them in a few years any way. i say give them the ax and plant something nicer in there spot. in 3 years you will be very happy you did.

this

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

one thing i can tell you is as your palm obsession grows youll be removing them in a few years any way. i say give them the ax and plant something nicer in there spot. in 3 years you will be very happy you did.

I have a bunch of 5g palms I just bought that I can choose from to fill in there: Beccariophoenix Alfredii, Livistona Decipiens, Sabal Mauritiiformis, Dypsis Ambositrae, Archontophoenix Beatrice, Coccothrinax Barbadensis...Space is now at a premium...I'm also going to remove a Butia Capitata and pot it up. I can't believe how small my yard seems now that I'm a palm addict....

Come and visit a few gardens and see how the space issue is resolved.

Plant a fast, tall type near a shorter slower type for canopy (as long as short and slow takes some shade).

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

one thing i can tell you is as your palm obsession grows youll be removing them in a few years any way. i say give them the ax and plant something nicer in there spot. in 3 years you will be very happy you did.

I have a bunch of 5g palms I just bought that I can choose from to fill in there: Beccariophoenix Alfredii, Livistona Decipiens, Sabal Mauritiiformis, Dypsis Ambositrae, Archontophoenix Beatrice, Coccothrinax Barbadensis...Space is now at a premium...I'm also going to remove a Butia Capitata and pot it up. I can't believe how small my yard seems now that I'm a palm addict....

Come and visit a few gardens and see how the space issue is resolved.

Plant a fast, tall type near a shorter slower type for canopy (as long as short and slow takes some shade).

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

If I start bugging some of you San diegans to visit your gardens, doomsdave put me up to it...

[Josh-O]

down with the washies!!! unleeeeees you plan on carving them in tikis??

[KennyRE317]

down with the washies!!! unleeeeees you plan on carving them in tikis??

i came in to same this. cut off everything except the base up to about 4-5' and carve out a nice tiki and mount some bromeliads on top.

[buccaneers37]

I'm TRYING to get one taken out from my work (which is making me sad, because, as a palm guy, I don't want to take out ANY healthy palm). However, I am redoing my parking lot and putting up a new fence. This is a volunteer that grew up next to the old fence (and into the mesh). We had a fire at work in 2001 and part of my warehouse was bulldozed, so the tree probably didn't start growing until late 2001. It is now at least 40ft. tall, so if you are contemplating taking them out, do it now before it is too late. I just figured that I would call a tree service to come and take it out. NOOOOOO. In the city of Tampa, I found out, it is virtually impossible to get a tree taken out, even though the city comes by every two years and basically chops the top off to keep it away from the power wires, which they have now done 3 times, and it grows right back, which is one reason I am sad to take it out - it is a survivor! About 8 years ago the petticoat was set on fire by some homeless people (palm is right next to my dumpster) and it came back from that, too. The tree guy that does a lot of work within the city limits said he can probably talk the inspector into issuing a permit because of the power lines (which it was NEVER in danger of hitting in the first place) and it will save the city from having to come and butcher (oh sorry) "TRIM" it every few years. This was the 2nd tree service I called. When the first one came out and looked at it, he told me the city never gives a permit to cut down a Sabal. I didn't even bother to tell him that what he was looking at was a Washingtonia and NOT a Sabal, I just told him thanks for his time and filed his card under the "Never call this person for work again".

The moral of the story: Large Palms = Good. Large Palms in the wrong spot = Not So Good

[Rafael]

It depends on how much room do you have. In my 500 m2 yard, two filifera let me plant a lot of less common species

[Pip]

I think this problem ultimately comes down to esthetics and end goal. I'd like to plant a few more in my garden because Washingtonia robusta is one of the few palms that grow tall fast and are happy with the natural rain fall my climate offers.

Like everyone says it is easier to remove them while still small.