Clustering Archontophoenix

[GMann]

I want to create a cluster of Archontophoenix in my garden, this is the look I would like to achieve:

The plan would be to plant small ones so that they would grow up to be like this, here are some questions about how to achieve this look:

1) How close together should I plant the palms? Can I go as close as I like? I was thinking of planting each one about 18 inches apart (allowing that mature ones may be 12 inches diameter).

2) Can I plant a mix of species for variety? I was thinking of planting some A. Cumminghamaina, A. Alexandrae, and Montgomery palms mixed in too. Or will mixing the types cause problems when they are planted so close together?

3) In order to give it a dense jungle look I should probably buy them in different sizes. So I was thinking of buying some in 3 gallon containers and some in 7 gallon containers, with the hope that they would grow in a staggering way. Will this work? Or in the long run will the difference between starting in 3 gallon and 7 gallon not be much difference when the palms are 20 feet tall?

[Mandrew968]

You can do whatever you like... being in Florida(it does not say what part) Archonotphoenix do not tend to grow very well. They tend to need more maintenence than other palms, but good luck! Welcome to Palmtalk

[GMann]

They don't grow well here? Why not? I am in South Florida, Broward County. We get plenty of rain and heat here. Plus I have sprinklers...

[Mandrew968]

They don't grow well here? Why not? I am in South Florida, Broward County. We get plenty of rain and heat here. Plus I have sprinklers...

It's not that they will not grow, but the chances of you ever growing any to look anything like those photos is going to be quite slim. First off, they don't like our poor soils(most species develop frizzle top or other deficiencies) and lots of pests enjoy them too--like white fly. Go ahead and try a few, maxima might do best for you, but just don't expect them to grow like they do in Australia. My maxima is not even close to as fast or as happy as it could be elsewhere. Having said that, I will not remove it, nor will I plant anymore...

Oh, and sprinklers are mainly for grass--they do little for palms(unless all you have is palms and the rest of the place is mulched).

[GMann]

Interesting. Is that why they seem to be quite rare down here?

I see a lot more Montgomery, Macarthur, and Adonidias in landscapes around here. Is that because those palms are easier to grow?

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

I am in coastal central florida and my archont looks great and is growing faster than almost any other palm I have. I feed it, water it, and it is like a rocket.

[GMann]

Thanks Jason. What type of Archonto do you have?

[Mandrew968]

Interesting. Is that why they seem to be quite rare down here?

I see a lot more Montgomery, Macarthur, and Adonidias in landscapes around here. Is that because those palms are easier to grow?

Yes, in general most Aussie palms like more abundant iron in their soils(or at least the right ph to uptake it).

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

Gmann I have what looks like an Alex. I also just got a Tuckeri but I haven't put it in the ground yet. The Alex started slow from a 15 gallon two years ago but with lots of water and slow release fert it puts out a new spear every 3 weeks on average. It is really green and healthy looking. Some of the ones I see around that don't look that good aren't receiving supplemental irrigation and are probably in really sandy soil. Mine is in sandy soil but it gets plenty of water.

[KennyRE317]

if you're going to start planting them that close together you might get a bunch of curved trunks. your best bet in keeping the trunks straight would do the planting in 2 phases, top canopy then fill in when they start trunking. they grow insanely fast out here in CA since they seem to love our water holding and slow draining clay, I don't think you can overwater these things and have seen photos of them on palmtalk where almost planted in water

[Bill H2DB]

I have had great growth on A. Cunninghamiana in the Daytona area,

First dune west of the ICW ( aka Halifax River ) , on very well drained coarse sand .

Cold is the limiting factor here .

[DoomsDave]

GMann:

Welcome to Palm Talk! You have come to the right place.

Sounds like your goal is doable. Archies need lots of water, but aside from that, they're easy to grow. I don't know how they'll take hurricanes. If they don't, they're fast enough to replace if the need arises. Heat and water are what's needed.

I have a bunch in my garden but it's in California.

Here's a pic from my rooftop, with Archie tuckeri, mixed in with others.

The red flame-like trees in the background are Liquidambars, turning red for fall. (Picture taken in December.)

You can cram them in, say, 2 feet (60 cm) apart, but that will make them weak and spindly. Better to give them more room, say 6 to 8 feet (2 - 3 M) apart. You can also plant groups of 3 or so, then space the groups more widely.

Mine make a great canopy. I love them to death, and don't mind the water bill. The palm in the center grew from about 12" (30 cm) tall to about 25 feet (8 M+) in about 7 years.

[DoomsDave]

GM look for my Private message.

[KennyRE317]

Dave, I'm experiencing similar growth with all my Archontophoenix species except illawarra and purpurea (expected with purpurea). my illawarra was completely rootbound in a 1gal (plant was 5' tall) and has been in the ground for maybe 10months so I'm hoping it's just a phase, if it ends up being not as robust or girthy that's okay but I hope it speeds up next year since I'm counting on it to anchor the corner of my yard as well as provide some canopy. if it doesn't kick out of this funk in a years time it'll come right out for a maxima since I don't have one yet. my Alex went from 6' to 13' in 3 years and the middle year it went through minimal to no water and was never fertilized until this past year. it's given me about 4'+ this past year with a lot of water and fertiler. my other 3 Archontophoenix are also so fast I can literally watch them grow. amazingly enough my Dypsis leptochielos I have in the ground are growing just as fast.

I water the crap out of my Archontophoenix with drip twice a week as well as at least once or twice a week with the hose

Edited September 2, 2014 by KennyRE317

[GMann]

I really like the look of Alex because of the white flowers and fruit. But I hear that the trunk is a little on the thick side. For that reason I was going to go with Cunninghamainas instead, because they supposedly have a thinner trunk. Truth be told I do not have that much room to do this. There are 2 bare areas left in my garden where I could cluster together about 4 of them (each one about 2 feet from the others). That is why I was thinking the thinner trunks of the Cunninghamainas would work better for me.

At some point I could take a photo of one of the proposed areas and post it.

[Sabal Steve]

Kenny and Dave offered good advice in terms of spacing. Personally, I use Kenny's method, but thet look great in clumps of 3 as well. The trunks of the Alexandrae wont be much bigger than Cunninghamiana - maybe a few inches. You could amend your soil as well to optimize results.

[DoomsDave]

The fattest of the Archies is Maxima, though some purpureas can be fat, too.

The thickness of the trunk has a lot to do with a combination of factors: how much water, how much space, and how much light. Plants crowded together in a small place tend to be taller and skinnier as they reach for the sun.

[Tyrone]

I'm going for the same look here. Given enough water and nutrients I can't see why they won't grow well in Florida. As for Hurricanes, well they come from the east coast of Australia that get some of the biggest cyclones on Earth.

[DoomsDave]

I'm going for the same look here. Given enough water and nutrients I can't see why they won't grow well in Florida. As for Hurricanes, well they come from the east coast of Australia that get some of the biggest cyclones on Earth.

What I thought, about the cyclones, wasn't sure if it was the right area.

[Richie]

They look good planted in pairs .These were planted 06 from 8' pots.

[LilikoiLee]

Go for it!

Very early on in our palm garden history Mike and I ‘got a good deal’ on 5 gal triple potted A. alexandrae at a ‘big box store’. We had no idea what the palms were or what to expect at their maturity. We planted them in the only garden area we’d cleared at that time. The area is small and all blue rock so the holes were not much bigger than the pots.

Once we learned how large the palms would become we were sure we’d created a disaster…..but we were wrong. Here’s how they look now. They’ve created a wonderful forest like shady area under which we’ve planted some shade hungry understory plants.

Lee

[GMann]

Ok here are 3 main areas where I was thinking of doing this, I have marked the spots where I would plant the palms with red dots. I am leaning towards option 1, but I am concerned that it will block out the sun from the slower growing Bucaneer palm directly in front. What do you guys think?

Option 1

Area: 7 x 4 feet

Sun: Partial- Full

Advantages: Will block out the white fence behind, prime location in center of garden, easily viewed behind the pool.

Disadvantages: May block out the sun from the Bucanneer palm in front (which requires sun), may get in the way of the crown of the hurricane palm on left. Area only big enough for about 3 palms.

Option 2

Area: 17 x 2-4 feet

Sun: Mainly shade but some sun.

Advantages: Long area, will provide privacy from the 2 story house behind.

Disadvantages: There are already some pepper and Suriname cherry trees planted there which currently block the skyline above in places (but these could easily be cut back at the time when the Palms reach that height). There are already some baby Areca palms and some hedge type plants interspersed in this area, I am not sure if these will hinder growth, but if so they could be removed). The area is kind of thin most of the way along (only 2 feet), which means that I could not plant the palms in front of each other.

Option 3

Area: 9 x 3 feet

Sun: Mainly sun, but some shade.

Advantages: Reasonably prominent position in garden (but not as prominent as option 1), provides some privacy from 2 story house behind.

Disadvantages: The area provides a lot of sun, so I was thinking of saving the space for something that requires sun. The area is thin (only 3 feet wide, so no real chance to stack the trees in front of each other). Area only big enough for about 3 palms.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Archontophoenix are great in groves and often, depending on your climate, prefer it that way. You can plant them REALLY close together and they will still grow very straight trunks. Curving will occur usually only when the stems are touching as seedlings. In a couple of my groves, I'm now allowing some of the volunteer seedlings grow to add more of a "wild" and native look.

One of my groves Straight trunks despite close proximity to each other

Curved trunks...I like that look too. Select strong seedlings will get to stay. They often grow fast.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Also, Gareth, I think any or all of those areas you pointed out in your yard are worthy of a grove. Wodyetia are also dramatic in groves of varied height trunks.

[doranakandawatta]

Gareth,

The way you want to plant Archontophoenix reminds me the way Areca catechu grows along paddy fields in Sri Lanka, it can be lovely.

Will you plant understorey palms?

[SailorBold]

Welcome.. Awesome project idea!

I would stick with one species.. and plant several. This way the crowns are uniform at maturity.

That is gonna look very nice!

[O'o Bar Master]

This is a better picture of one of our Archontophoenix triples. Purchased as three seedlings in one pot, these Archontophoenix curve away from each other but then grow upright forming a nice canopy.

Mike

[Pip]

I like option 2 best

[Walter John]

Great idea, just do it.