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Variegated palms


SurfCityPalms

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I know there are one's and two's that pop up in post here and there but there's not much talk from the true variegated collectors. I have recently acquired a couple of the "holy grail" palms for a variegated collector, Licualas, and I HAVE to share them with everyone! Seldom seen outside of Thailand, and usually not even for sale there, I have in hand to show off a L.grandis (photos 1-2), L.peltata var. sumawongii (photo 3), and a L.ramsayi (photo 4-5)! Enjoy vari lovers!

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post-5591-0-13297900-1406602187_thumb.jp

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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Those look nice. I recently purchased a bunch of variegated chamaerops.

20140728_195742_zpspqncorqw.jpg

20140728_195804_zpsdk3y7gyb.jpg

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Supernova's, I'm very a wary of those, love em! Got any other vari's?

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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Supernova's, I'm very aware of those, love em! Got any other vari's?

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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There's the opposite variegation on chamaerops, going length wise. But I prefer these.

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Some are cooler than other, but overall variegated palms don't do all that much for me personally. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of them.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Some are cooler than other, but overall variegated palms don't do all that much for me personally. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of them.

Variegation that goes along the veins of the leaves doesn't interest me that much because often the palms just look sick. I prefer the variegation on the chamaerops I bought, those I like a lot. However, I understand the collector bug that some folks have.

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I gotcha, I have that bug. I have over 60 different species of vari palms and I have the other form of the Chamaerops you mentioned, it's actually an EXTREEMELY rare form.

I never thought I'd be in to what I am now but there's only about 200 species that will grow in my area. Once I collected all that I could (as a normal green palm collector) my want for more didn't go away... So... Variegated palms,,,, one of a kind trees, perked my interest.

When you have all that's available in your area what else can you collect?!? You can only collect what no one else has; what's crazy rare.. I started not for how they look, but for their rarity, now I love their unique beauty.

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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That's interesting, I had never thought of it that way. I tend to grow stuff for the tropical look, so when I come across a palm that grows well for me, I plant several of them. But in doing so, I discovered that some genera just have a ton of variation. As a result, there are certain areas where the collector bug has gotten me as well. So far, I've been stricken to collect brahea and sabal. With brahea, it's not one of each species because there are just so many different forms and crosses. Same with sabal. Trachys also come in a myriad of forms, and perhaps the worst offender is chamaerops, for which there are dozens and dozens of different shapes and forms.

So I don't see the 200 species limit you see within the green and silver world. I have over 30 distinct specimen of brahea alone. Throw in the hybrids and the number just goes through the roof. I don't even have access to the breadth of species you have in Huntington Beach and yet my 3/4 acre is too small to house the biodiversity of palms accessible in this climate.

But when my wife looks at all this, she doesn't get it, they all look like fan palms or feather palms. So we must truly be a nutty bunch here on PalmTalk. :)

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I love it! My wife doesn't get why i don't plant more color either. You brought a great point, I live in Huntington Beach, so our 80x100 foot lots don't give us a lot of room to work with, hence my pull towards the rare.

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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Here's the leaf on my less variegated Foxy Lady. I only have 5 variegated palms...I do think they are cool, but the sun knocks them around. Nong Nooch has a very extensive collection of variegated palms.

post-42-0-37449000-1406629000_thumb.jpg

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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Those look nice. I recently purchased a bunch of variegated chamaerops.

20140728_195742_zpspqncorqw.jpg

20140728_195804_zpsdk3y7gyb.jpg

Axel, Your variegation really looks like a nutritional or some type of physical issue as the spear developed.

As far as Thailand being the "capital" of variegation, I believe they induce the variegation with a virus.

-Randy

"If you need me, I'll be outside" -Randy Wiesner Palm Beach County, Florida Zone 10Bish

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Those look nice. I recently purchased a bunch of variegated chamaerops.

20140728_195742_zpspqncorqw.jpg

20140728_195804_zpsdk3y7gyb.jpg

Axel, Your variegation really looks like a nutritional or some type of physical issue as the spear developed.

As far as Thailand being the "capital" of variegation, I believe they induce the variegation with a virus.

-Randy

How dare you insult my plants! :) I actually think the lengthwise variegation looks more like a nutritional deficiency, which is why I rarely buy anything variegated. But these really look nice, and no, it's not a spear issue.

Is variegation really a virus? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

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These Chamaerops do not look like they're variegated but more something related to nutrition and/or physical damage.

Variegation in this case, is not a virus but can be induced using some tricks instead of just waiting for a variegated seedling to pop out of thousands of seedlings. One can use colchicine for exemple or other chemicals that are going to generate mutations.

Anyway, viruses are used in some cases. Tulips, for exemple, can have variegated flowers when infected with a special kind of virus.

Since I encountered a variegated W. robusta in my city, I have made a bit of research about variegation in palms:

The variegation is something that can be transmistted through seeds but usually, it is spontaneous. The variegated plant is what we call a chimera, which means that it bears two kind of cells with different genes: one being able to produce chlorophyll and one being not, thus appearing white or yellow (depends as well on other pigments). It is also why the variegation is usually so random on leaves, and sometimes even occuring on only one side of the plant. Sometimes, the plant might eventually lose the variegation because the normal cells took over.

The place of the variegated part depends of the location of the cells in the apex and the more "white" cells you have the more variegation the plant will show.

That explains why you don't easily get variegated seedlings out of variegated palms (usually a very low percentage). It's because the seed needs to carry the two types of cells to be variegated.

I might be mistaking and maybe this doesn't apply to all the variegation in palm trees, but I am pretty sure this theory is accurate for the truly variegated ones (with very wide variegation marks).

That also explains why you usually reproduce variegated plants (except natural variegations that have a different origin) by cuttings and not by seeds. And also why there are a lot of variegated Rhapis with their tendancy to produce offsets.

For the foxy lady I would say that the hybrid bears a combination of genes that promote this kind of "accident".

Palms are very sought after by collectors all other the world, so the "chimera theory" would explain why variegated palms aren't that widespread all other the world (because of the impossibility to propagate vegetatively most types of palms).

Hope that it was clear enough

Simon

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These Chamaerops do not look like they're variegated but more something related to nutrition and/or physical damage.

Variegation in this case, is not a virus but can be induced using some tricks instead of just waiting for a variegated seedling to pop out of thousands of seedlings. One can use colchicine for exemple or other chemicals that are going to generate mutations.

Anyway, viruses are used in some cases. Tulips, for exemple, can have variegated flowers when infected with a special kind of virus.

Since I encountered a variegated W. robusta in my city, I have made a bit of research about variegation in palms:

The variegation is something that can be transmistted through seeds but usually, it is spontaneous. The variegated plant is what we call a chimera, which means that it bears two kind of cells with different genes: one being able to produce chlorophyll and one being not, thus appearing white or yellow (depends as well on other pigments). It is also why the variegation is usually so random on leaves, and sometimes even occuring on only one side of the plant. Sometimes, the plant might eventually lose the variegation because the normal cells took over.

The place of the variegated part depends of the location of the cells in the apex and the more "white" cells you have the more variegation the plant will show.

That explains why you don't easily get variegated seedlings out of variegated palms (usually a very low percentage). It's because the seed needs to carry the two types of cells to be variegated.

I might be mistaking and maybe this doesn't apply to all the variegation in palm trees, but I am pretty sure this theory is accurate for the truly variegated ones (with very wide variegation marks).

That also explains why you usually reproduce variegated plants (except natural variegations that have a different origin) by cuttings and not by seeds. And also why there are a lot of variegated Rhapis with their tendancy to produce offsets.

For the foxy lady I would say that the hybrid bears a combination of genes that promote this kind of "accident".

Palms are very sought after by collectors all other the world, so the "chimera theory" would explain why variegated palms aren't that widespread all other the world (because of the impossibility to propagate vegetatively most types of palms).

Hope that it was clear enough

Simon

What you say is wrong. Those chamaerops are variegated, not damaged. They produce seedlings that have the exact same variegation, I have the seedlings and they have this pattern even with just one leaf blade. The leaves emerge without the variegation and the variegation shows up as the leaves get bigger. This is a known variety of chamaerops as Jerod points out and it's stable, i.e. the seedlings come true to the parent.

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Variegated Chameropes with lateral variegation is not from nutrition or outside influence.. I didnt think to mention it earlier when your picture Brahea Axel you showed a "Supernova" varieation,, look at my avatar,,, that's a tree ive had for about 4-5 years, it now in the gound and id happily fed with all my other trees and its still looks amaizing.

Sim01 explained variegation percicesly but to the lamen it is still confusing. Let me break it down in lamen terms; there are 2 forms of variegation; viral and genitic mutation. Viral variegation is what you typacally seen in flowers, plumeria leaves, and different forms of plants that require a cutting to look as beautiful as their mother plant. Virus' typically to not get passed through seed so it usually need to me a cutting or graft of some sort to continue the variegation strain. This is why there are so many kinds of variegated Rhapis, it's a virus that was started 800 years ago in Japan and throughout the years it has mutated into 100+ different custivars, but because you can propigate by removing suckers is it very easy to keep the strain going.

The other form of variegation is genetic mutation. I try to thing of it as a person with a birth-mark, an area of a persons skin doesnt have pigment which makes a white patch. In the palm world it would relate to an area of the plant that does not produce chlorophyll

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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My specimens might need more TLC, there is more sunburn at the variegation locations because the variegation is more likely to burn. But they're the supernova, and interestingly enough, it's a relatively stable mutation. Crossing a male and a female supernova leads to supernova seedlings with a very high rate, like 90%. Almost al the seedlings have some degree of the variegation, and one in a thousand of these will show the horizontal variegation along the leaf veins. The one with the horizontal leaf vein variegation is actually a volcano and has suckers that show the radiating variegation.

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I'm not a big fan of variegated palms, but a few are starting to change that.

I remember as a kid buying these lemon-lime candy canes with yellow and green stripes, and there's a mature, variegated Roysonea that looks like a giant lemon-lime candy cane, including mouth-watering stripes on its crownshaft.

And, a variegated Chambeyronia hookeri.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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(Sorry, prematurely hit send before i could spell check)

Gentic mutation is passed through seed and is the most desited from for variegated collectors. As said before, it is rare to get variegated babies from a variegated mother, mainly because it is not the entire plant that has the mutation but just a small area of it, so yes, 1 in 1000 or 0.01% of seeds will come out true as the mother, but if you know what you are looking for you can pick those select seeds and only germinate the ones that will show true.

When I collect seeds from a variegated mother I have a 100% turnout of variegated seedlings.. its not magic, you just need to know what you are looking for.

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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Dave, are you talking about the roystonea pictured on Palmpedia? That thing is incredible, what a delicious looking crownshaft.

3VRoyal.jpg

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Yes, Axel, I was, and a picture is worth a thousand words.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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That would be worth growing just for the crownshaft! But I suspect the fronds would fry in the dry California sun. Those variegated palms aren't very resilient to dry full sun.

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These Chamaerops do not look like they're variegated but more something related to nutrition and/or physical damage.

Variegation in this case, is not a virus but can be induced using some tricks instead of just waiting for a variegated seedling to pop out of thousands of seedlings. One can use colchicine for exemple or other chemicals that are going to generate mutations.

Anyway, viruses are used in some cases. Tulips, for exemple, can have variegated flowers when infected with a special kind of virus.

Since I encountered a variegated W. robusta in my city, I have made a bit of research about variegation in palms:

The variegation is something that can be transmistted through seeds but usually, it is spontaneous. The variegated plant is what we call a chimera, which means that it bears two kind of cells with different genes: one being able to produce chlorophyll and one being not, thus appearing white or yellow (depends as well on other pigments). It is also why the variegation is usually so random on leaves, and sometimes even occuring on only one side of the plant. Sometimes, the plant might eventually lose the variegation because the normal cells took over.

The place of the variegated part depends of the location of the cells in the apex and the more "white" cells you have the more variegation the plant will show.

That explains why you don't easily get variegated seedlings out of variegated palms (usually a very low percentage). It's because the seed needs to carry the two types of cells to be variegated.

I might be mistaking and maybe this doesn't apply to all the variegation in palm trees, but I am pretty sure this theory is accurate for the truly variegated ones (with very wide variegation marks).

That also explains why you usually reproduce variegated plants (except natural variegations that have a different origin) by cuttings and not by seeds. And also why there are a lot of variegated Rhapis with their tendancy to produce offsets.

For the foxy lady I would say that the hybrid bears a combination of genes that promote this kind of "accident".

Palms are very sought after by collectors all other the world, so the "chimera theory" would explain why variegated palms aren't that widespread all other the world (because of the impossibility to propagate vegetatively most types of palms).

Hope that it was clear enough

Simon

What you say is wrong. Those chamaerops are variegated, not damaged. They produce seedlings that have the exact same variegation, I have the seedlings and they have this pattern even with just one leaf blade. The leaves emerge without the variegation and the variegation shows up as the leaves get bigger. This is a known variety of chamaerops as Jerod points out and it's stable, i.e. the seedlings come true to the parent.

My bad, if you say that they reproduce that way then it can be called a variegation, it's just that on the pics the plant look sick to me (unlike Jerod's profile pic one) but it might be because I'm not fond of it. Anyway, we cannot tell if it is genetic mutation or a virus.

Since the virus is present in the mother plant's tissues, there is no reason it wouldn't be in the seed's tissues as well. Furthermore, viruses act by injecting their own DNA/RNA into the host DNA. If the change in the host DNA isn't lethal then it can be kept and pass through generations (and that's what happened with humans, our DNA being partially made of virus DNA).

Would you have some articles about the Rhapis being caused by a virus? To me it might well be chimeral and the fact that they make ofsets made it possible to select the best ones through time.

This article sums the variegation topic pretty well:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/3423/

Simon

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The vairegated licuala in my avatar was my favorite. It was an awesome looking plant while it lasted. It definitely stood out in my shade house and actually appeared like it was glowing when I took a picture of it-- an optical illusion caused by the green fading into the white variegated parts. Sadly it went albino and eventually died-- which sometimes happens to some forms of variegated plants.

Any way I have a few others that I can share here.

First off an Iguanura ( I have posted this one before)

post-1017-0-73259700-1406702009_thumb.jp

post-1017-0-03724700-1406702019_thumb.jp

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Gene

Manila, Philippines

53 feet above sea level - inland

Hot and dry in summer, humid and sticky monsoon season, perfect weather Christmas time

http://freakofnaturezzz.blogspot.com/

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Very nice! I have a Prtchardia that looks very similar to you avatar Licuala, I'll post a pic. I wasted to always think it was deficient but after a couple years of attention and care it still continues to look the same.

post-5591-0-62393500-1406731125_thumb.jp

Jerod

SurfCityPalms.com

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  • 1 year later...

Ben,

I saw this on Facebook yesterday!  Superb find.  I have a huge collection of variegated palms and tropicals.  Best wagi I've seen.  Great job!!!

Here is a pic of a Trachy I have.  This particular one is a 'fade' type, so the new leaf emerges green, then the variegation fades in over time.

image2 (3).JPG

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Excellent - is that fortunei or other variation?

Looks like a nice palm.

Any tips on keeping ours healthy and growing as fast as possible?

Also any thoughts on stability of the variegation in trachys?

Do you have any more variegated Trachys?

Edited by benbaron
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  • 2 years later...

I do enjoy leaf variegation in my palms... and other plants! These are some of mine at the peak of summer here: Rhapis, Caryota, Monstera, Erythrina, Ficus and Bougainvillea.^_^

Rhapis.png

Caryota.png

Philo-1.png

Philo-2.png

Erythrina.png

Ficus.png

bougainvillea.png

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I showed these on another post.... They are volunteers, below a foxtail with a Veitcha close by... I thought they were kinda cool looking.... Hope they do fry...

 

GUzDbH8.jpg

 

SpFwCuS.jpg

 

ekt8tel.jpg

 

Butch

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1 hour ago, Butch said:

I showed these on another post.... They are volunteers, below a foxtail with a Veitcha close by... I thought they were kinda cool looking.... Hope they do fry...

 

GUzDbH8.jpg

 

SpFwCuS.jpg

 

ekt8tel.jpg

 

Butch

Those are so cool. I haven't seen much horizontal variegation before.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I only have variegated Rhapis. I thought I was going to have a variegated Carlota gigs but the variegation was extremely limited on one frond and did not repeat on subsequent ones. But I love my little variegated ladies.

IMG_2065.JPG

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"You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes"---SliPknot

 

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  • 2 years later...

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