Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

The loss of world palm biodiversity because of palm oil plantations


Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Recommended Posts

Does the IPS do anything to work to protect the palms of the world or does it just talk about palms? Seems palm oil plantations are increasingly destroying large swaths of palm oil plantations. They are doing this in Madagascar now and many more palm species are at risk. Whatever hasn't been brought into cultivation is doomed. Here is an old 2008 posting from Scientific American, http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/harvesting-palm-oil-and-rainforests/ and the problem continues. Palm oil in Madagascar: http://www.edbm.gov.mg/News-and-events/News/Palm-oil-Malaysia-is-interested-in-Madagascar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Axel, what would you propose IPS do? With the size and budget of IPS as compared to the other entities in the game, IPS simply does not even ping on the radar. This is no slam on IPS, just the facts relative to the game. Negative environmental impact have already been exposed by many major players. The issue is known. The biggest opposing force today would be to reduce the market for the product through exposure of negative health benefits, but that has already being done by many major players as well. The issue is known. Only the market will influence the governments and companies involved. Good news is that those markets have flattened out in the last couple of years. Let's hope they stay that way, but no matter, I see no possible way for the IPS to have a meaningful impact. It is up to the BOD to decide, but it would seem to me that the limited budget of time and money might be put to better uses. This is my opinion and I am not expert on this matter, just calling it the way I see it.

Keith

http://www.rea.co.uk/rea/en/markets/cpoprices

Now - The one thing that every IPS member could do today is to insure they don't buy any products with Palm Oil, and they could educate their friends on the matter. Be prepared for most of your friend to give a poop about palm diversity, but they can be convinced of negative health benefits. A blurb on this in the IPS Newsletter would not hurt, but again, not sure it is even worth the space. Far more people will see it here on PT than in that newsletter.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Axel, I have brought this up a few times online here and while at the Board of Directors meeting. I believe this is one of the top issues the IPS should somehow engage in. I have already talked to a few people to help write up some content on this subject matter - whether or not it happens, we will see. I do not think most people really understand the damage being done by all this. I believe the IPS can help people understand. I believe this is one of a few call to actions that can engage people and get people to join or donate to our cause. Because this subject matter overlaps with other conservation groups efforts, I think we could work together once we ourselves take our stance.

Does the IPS do anything to work to protect the palms of the world or does it just talk about palms? Seems palm oil plantations are increasingly destroying large swaths of palm oil plantations. They are doing this in Madagascar now and many more palm species are at risk. Whatever hasn't been brought into cultivation is doomed. Here is an old 2008 posting from Scientific American, http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/harvesting-palm-oil-and-rainforests/ and the problem continues. Palm oil in Madagascar: http://www.edbm.gov.mg/News-and-events/News/Palm-oil-Malaysia-is-interested-in-Madagascar.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Len, glad to hear you are paying attention to this and trying to bring it to the attention of the rest of the board. This issue seems like a natural fit for the IPS to get involved in.

Population control is not popular. :evil:

While the ever growing population of the planet is really the underlying cause of most habitat loss, it's still not an excuse to stand by and do nothing about the symptoms because there is no quick fix to eliminate the cause. If we can treat some of the symptoms, then that is a step in the right direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be aware, this can have [harsh chord] political implications.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems palm oil plantations are increasingly destroying large swaths of palm oil plantations.

Wait... what?

:mrlooney:

Mispeak, I think

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By it's mere existence, the IPS is doing something proactive to help save and protect palm trees. As the IPS membership increases, it's voice gets louder, word spreads. Stopping palm oil plantations would be as hard as banning guns in America, sorry Palm Mod but I had to find something similar to compare because it's attitudes that need to turn. IPS board are several people like you and me, in fact, I am one of them. There's a far broader issue with far more disastrous elements affected by palm oil plantations, including ALL flora and fauna and people's homes and livelihoods.etc etc.etc.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oil Palm plantations are happening in the poorer parts of the world as these poorer nations try to earn a living in an economic system dominated by western enterprise. It's also being driven by the demand for "bio diesel". It's a result of the failure of the world economic system and world governments in general. (I'm not pointing at anyone specific, it's a problem of mankind living on planet earth with greed being the dominant inclination)

I've seen many say that Palm oil is bad for you, but that's probably driven by the canola growing guys. Palm oil is fine to use, BUT, it's not grown with any care for this Earth in general.

Palm Oil equals deforestation. But it's easier on the eye than they leaving a bare field. They replace it with something green. :(

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen those palmoil plantations in South East Asia. Its like ammagedon, a very depressing sight. And now Africa and Madagascar seem to join the destruction. Well its all driven by greed and population growth.

And greedy capitalists are not interested in whats good for the World but only whats is good for their own financial interest...

Alexander

Edited by Explorer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have seen those palmoil plantations in South East Asia. Its like ammagedon, a very depressing sight. And now Africa and Madagascar seem to join the destruction. Well its all driven by greed and population growth...

Alexander

It is just growth, growth, and more growth. Nature will adjust as it always does, but it don't think it will be pretty. But what do I know, perhaps mankind will grow to billions and billions with no repercussions at all. But if I was a betting man.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we need a good war again. Well one group will benefit from that anyway, a tiny very rich bunch of Global players...

Alexander

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we need a good war again. Well one group will benefit from that anyway, a tiny very rich bunch of Global players...

Alexander

It is human nature, and will happen I do believe, but I pray it comes long after my long life.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am glad I have seen orangutans, tigers and elefants in the wild. But I am probably one of the last generation who had that chance.

''Avec nous l, désert/with us the desert'' it seems.

Alexander

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we need a good war again. Well one group will benefit from that anyway, a tiny very rich bunch of Global players...

Alexander

It is human nature, and will happen I do believe, but I pray it comes long after my long life.

Well many conflicts in poor countries have to do with this allready. As there will be less and less good farmland there will be more conflicts. The stream of poor people heading for Europe and North America are a sign of that. And we know how popular extremist groups in some parts of the World are! And when 0,01 % of the World populations owns 40% of the richness on this planet sooner or later something needs to happen. Like the French revolution or the Russian revolution for example. Well we have plenty examples of that here.

Alexander

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we need a good war again. Well one group will benefit from that anyway, a tiny very rich bunch of Global players...

Alexander

It is human nature, and will happen I do believe, but I pray it comes long after my long life.

Well many conflicts in poor countries have to do with this allready. As there will be less and less good farmland there will be more conflicts. The stream of poor people heading for Europe and North America are a sign of that. And we know how popular extremist groups in some parts of the World are! And when 0,01 % of the World populations owns 40% of the richness on this planet sooner or later something needs to happen. Like the French revolution or the Russian revolution for example. Well we have plenty examples of that here.

Alexander

We best steer clear of this part of this topic shall we get this thread banned, and stick to what the IPS might contribute.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just ban it

This data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall the providers be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from lost data or lost profits or revenue, the costs of recovering such data, the costs of substitute data, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use the data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just ban it

Is that you, or the dog talking. He is a bit more handsome than you, in spite of his appetite for aluminum foil.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given there are people who are wishing for war, I would agree, delete the topic. What kind of person wishes for a war?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given there are people who are wishing for war, I would agree, delete the topic. What kind of person wishes for a war?

I don't know that anyone here wished war, but see no need to prematurely ban the topic you started. Just time to get back to the topic at hand.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given there are people who are wishing for war, I would agree, delete the topic. What kind of person wishes for a war?

This. Publicly calling for mass human death is the polar opposite of sane and reasonable.

Woodville, FL

zone 8b

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given there are people who are wishing for war, I would agree, delete the topic. What kind of person wishes for a war?

This. Publicly calling for mass human death is the polar opposite of sane and reasonable.

I think you misread Axel's comment. Pretty sure he was agreeing that the topic should be deleted, not with wishing for war.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe we need a good war again. Well one group will benefit from that anyway, a tiny very rich bunch of Global players...

Alexander

That's the post I am referring to. This person is wishing for war to solve the population problem. I find this offensive. The world is still full of war, the last thing we need is more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By it's mere existence, the IPS is doing something proactive to help save and protect palm trees. As the IPS membership increases, it's voice gets louder, word spreads. Stopping palm oil plantations would be as hard as banning guns in America, sorry Palm Mod but I had to find something similar to compare because it's attitudes that need to turn. IPS board are several people like you and me, in fact, I am one of them. There's a far broader issue with far more disastrous elements affected by palm oil plantations, including ALL flora and fauna and people's homes and livelihoods.etc etc.etc.

Thanks for saying it Wal!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By it's mere existence, the IPS is doing something proactive to help save and protect palm trees. As the IPS membership increases, it's voice gets louder, word spreads. Stopping palm oil plantations would be as hard as banning guns in America, sorry Palm Mod but I had to find something similar to compare because it's attitudes that need to turn. IPS board are several people like you and me, in fact, I am one of them. There's a far broader issue with far more disastrous elements affected by palm oil plantations, including ALL flora and fauna and people's homes and livelihoods.etc etc.etc.

I agree Wal, my thoughts as well.

____________________

Kumar

Bombay, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 23 - 32 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 3400.0 mm

Calcutta, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 19 - 33 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 1600.0 mm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be a tricky PR feat for the IPS to challenge the use of oil palms.

"Hi, we are the International Palm Society. We want you to plant lots of palms. We like palms, except for Oil Palms. Well, actually, we like Oil Palms too, but just not too many of them. Soooo, palms are good but Oil Palms are bad, but just a few Oil Palms are OK."

or, here is a message to countries growing oil palms....

"Hi, we are the International Palm Society. We are a bunch of rich guys who like palms. Well, maybe not richie rich, but rich compared to you. We want you to grow palms and appreciate your bio-diverse rainforests, but we don't want you to plant too many Oil Palms. Yes I know you are poor. Yes I know we don't live there, but we still like to think about your rain forest. Sooo, please do what we say so we don't have to feel guilty about buying cheap oil products from third world countries. Thanks so much."

  • Upvote 1

So many species,

so little time.

Coconut Creek, Florida

Zone 10b (Zone 11 except for once evey 10 or 20 years)

Last Freeze: 2011,50 Miles North of Fairchilds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see the issue with messaging this, all things are good only in moderation. And the place to fix this is on the consumer end here in the US anyway, no one is going to fix this by messaging to the people who grow oil palms. It's questionable if poor people benefit from oil palm plantations anyway.

The fix is, stop buying crap with palm oil in it. We boycott all those products. Palm oil isn't making it into the house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be a tricky PR feat for the IPS to challenge the use of oil palms.

"Hi, we are the International Palm Society. We want you to plant lots of palms. We like palms, except for Oil Palms. Well, actually, we like Oil Palms too, but just not too many of them. Soooo, palms are good but Oil Palms are bad, but just a few Oil Palms are OK."

or, here is a message to countries growing oil palms....

"Hi, we are the International Palm Society. We are a bunch of rich guys who like palms. Well, maybe not richie rich, but rich compared to you. We want you to grow palms and appreciate your bio-diverse rainforests, but we don't want you to plant too many Oil Palms. Yes I know you are poor. Yes I know we don't live there, but we still like to think about your rain forest. Sooo, please do what we say so we don't have to feel guilty about buying cheap oil products from third world countries. Thanks so much."

Jerry, you kind of miss the point. No one is saying we should be speaking from a higher platform. It is simply about education which hopefully leads to conservation. Ask around. Do people know what it takes to get them their palm oil? Most don't. I have tested this personally. Explaining the damage and consequences is of great value to the IPS IMO. Your argument could be used for stopping poaching of rhinos. Or tigers. They are just trying to make a buck.

Also, we are an international organization. We have members in most the places these oil palm plantations go in.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be a tricky PR feat for the IPS to challenge the use of oil palms.

"Hi, we are the International Palm Society. We want you to plant lots of palms. We like palms, except for Oil Palms. Well, actually, we like Oil Palms too, but just not too many of them. Soooo, palms are good but Oil Palms are bad, but just a few Oil Palms are OK."

or, here is a message to countries growing oil palms....

"Hi, we are the International Palm Society. We are a bunch of rich guys who like palms. Well, maybe not richie rich, but rich compared to you. We want you to grow palms and appreciate your bio-diverse rainforests, but we don't want you to plant too many Oil Palms. Yes I know you are poor. Yes I know we don't live there, but we still like to think about your rain forest. Sooo, please do what we say so we don't have to feel guilty about buying cheap oil products from third world countries. Thanks so much."

Jerry, you kind of miss the point. No one is saying we should be speaking from a higher platform. It is simply about education which hopefully leads to conservation. Ask around. Do people know what it takes to get them their palm oil? Most don't. I have tested this personally. Explaining the damage and consequences is of great value to the IPS IMO. Your argument could be used for stopping poaching of rhinos. Or tigers. They are just trying to make a buck.

Also, we are an international organization. We have members in most the places these oil palm plantations go in.

Fur trade and product testing on animals were successful examples of market influence, but mainly because it had mass media and Hollywood backing. Diamond trade was a failure with no lack of market demand there. Sadly it almost appears that people feel more sympathy for animals than for other people. And I have no statistics but I would think the general masses have no concern for bio-diversity. Even the cries to save the rainforest have faded. But health is a hot market, and that is the Achilles heal of Palm Oil.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You all have missed my point. We can't even market ourselves as a palm organization but now some people want us to market ourselves as an anti palm organization. Most people would say to you, "You are the PALM society but you don't like palms? What the ____?"

I did not say that it was not a worthy cause. I was trying to point out that if we try to make a big enough push that would actually make a difference, the first time that 99.9% of the population ever heard about the Palm Society it would not be marketing palms but anti palms. Talk about a confusing message.

So many species,

so little time.

Coconut Creek, Florida

Zone 10b (Zone 11 except for once evey 10 or 20 years)

Last Freeze: 2011,50 Miles North of Fairchilds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jerry, you can be pro fish but want to kill off invasive species that were introduced. I love frogs but would kill a cane toad if it showed up in my yard.

Jerry, your point about us being a small organization that many have not heard of is correct. But with the new branding online we will be doing, having a few solid messages will go a long way. If not for more than a marketing standpoint.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,,,. But with the new branding online we will be doing, having a few solid messages will go a long way. If not for more than a marketing standpoint.

Can't wait to see the new sight. And position statements, very carefully worded, are free. And while I want to say no harm, note very carefully worded statement. Must always be aware of misinterpreted meanings and unintended consequences. But, all that being said, go for it.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,,,. But with the new branding online we will be doing, having a few solid messages will go a long way. If not for more than a marketing standpoint.

Can't wait to see the new sight. And position statements, very carefully worded, are free. And while I want to say no harm, note very carefully worded statement. Must always be aware of misinterpreted meanings and unintended consequences. But, all that being said, go for it.

Maybe "save the palms, don't have babies" ? Or no? :beat_deadhorse:

I DIG PALMS

Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.

305-345-8918

https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,,,. But with the new branding online we will be doing, having a few solid messages will go a long way. If not for more than a marketing standpoint.

Can't wait to see the new sight. And position statements, very carefully worded, are free. And while I want to say no harm, note very carefully worded statement. Must always be aware of misinterpreted meanings and unintended consequences. But, all that being said, go for it.

Maybe "save the palms, don't have babies" ? Or no? :beat_deadhorse:

Of course I meant new site, and not sight, and well Ken, you are just bad.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But bad to the bone, the noise alone???

De gustibus non se disputandum est...

Well this is more my cup of tea. From good old Europe!

http://youtu.be/M1bpgLose0M

If its off topic just delete it...

Alexander

Edited by Explorer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fix is, stop buying crap with palm oil in it. We boycott all those products. Palm oil isn't making it into the house.

Palm oil is virtually in every processed food you buy. The only way to not buy palm oil, is to grow and produce all your own food yourself and not buy any takeaway EVER again. The reason it's impossible to tell what product actually has it, is they just call it vegetable oil, which at the end of the day is all it is.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fix is, stop buying crap with palm oil in it. We boycott all those products. Palm oil isn't making it into the house.

Palm oil is virtually in every processed food you buy. The only way to not buy palm oil, is to grow and produce all your own food yourself and not buy any takeaway EVER again. The reason it's impossible to tell what product actually has it, is they just call it vegetable oil, which at the end of the day is all it is.

It's quite a bit easier here in the US, you can't call it "vegetable oil" on the ingredients, it has to say what oil it is. We buy processed foods and none of it has palm oil in it. But we shop mostly at health food stores because the stuff in regular stores is full of garbage anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...