Best way to amend/backfill this hole for S. mexicana

[jfrye01@live.com]

Dug this hole a couple weeks ago for my Sabal mexicana, just now getting around to planting the guy. As you can see, this is pretty much all clay. This is close to the house, so mound planting isn't really an option here...what would be the best way to amend this hole? I dug it about 6" deeper and about 6" wider on each side than the palm's root ball...I thought about amending the backfill soil with wood mulch, but I'm not sure if that would do more harm than good. I don't have any gypsum, but I do have gravel in my driveway...it is chalky and I believe it is limestone, but once again, I'm not sure...any ideas?

[Kostas]

I would simply fill back the bottom half of the rootball with plain native soil and amend the upper half with 30-50% soil high in organic matter and another 10-20% gravel and maybe 10% sand. Make sure to plant 5-10cm higher than the native soil level as it will probably sink a bit since you dug the hole deeper than the rootball,but also for better initial drainage. It won't be districting to the eye,trust me,and by making the mound wide,it's not visible much and even adds interest to the landscape. The mound will diminish to half its original height within a year and may possibly end up flush with the surrounding soil level.

Even if you backfill with just clay or only use organic matter as amendment to the very top cm or soil,the Sabal should be fine if its tolerant of your winter lows. Don't use mulch at the bottom of the hole,ends up rotting anaerobically which is not good for the soil health and for the plant.

[jfrye01@live.com]

I would simply fill back the bottom half of the rootball with plain native soil and amend the upper half with 30-50% soil high in organic matter and another 10-20% gravel and maybe 10% sand. Make sure to plant 5-10cm higher than the native soil level as it will probably sink a bit since you dug the hole deeper than the rootball,but also for better initial drainage. It won't be districting to the eye,trust me,and by making the mound wide,it's not visible much and even adds interest to the landscape. The mound will diminish to half its original height within a year and may possibly end up flush with the surrounding soil level.

Even if you backfill with just clay or only use organic matter as amendment to the very top cm or soil,the Sabal should be fine if its tolerant of your winter lows. Don't use mulch at the bottom of the hole,ends up rotting anaerobically which is not good for the soil health and for the plant.

Thanks!! Sounds like a plan! Winter lows here do dip into the single digits from time to time, but I plan to protect it. Thanks for the detailed instructions!

[Alicehunter2000]

Don't use mulch at the bottom of the hole,ends up rotting anaerobically which is not good for the soil health and for the plant.

Interesting...didn't know this.... .... I've been screwing up for a long time

[Alicehunter2000]

Would that be true even for pure sand?

[Kostas]

Generally yes if the sand remains wet for extended periods of time but with sand draining fast and drying times much faster,may not be as much a problem as in clay. It's supposed to be mostly problematic at 60cm below soil level but with my shallow water table,when I did that in the past at just 30cm,it was stinking pretty bad the following winters and soil was unhealthy looking and mucky there(maybe the soil organisms avoided that spot then and thus weren't creating structure? Don't know). Plant roots aren't too fond of anaerobic areas and the toxic byproducts produced from the anaerobic decomposition but many water lovers don't care too much either,but probably avoid the area somewhat. In any case,having such a "dead zone" under a plant we plant,isn't ideal or something we want But the problem does fix itself with the years,so it's not forever.

[Umbrae]

Mexicana will grow in gumbo clay FWIW.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Well, here she is:) Ready for mulch! Now to keep the mastiff away from it...(sorry for the sideways pictures, it's an iphone glitch)

Can't really tell in these pictures, but there's about a 4" high mound of dirt around it

Edited April 24, 2014 by jfrye01@live.com

[jfrye01@live.com]

Been in the ground for less than 30 minutes, dog has already soaked it with pee > Despite spraying it with an animal repellant...

[Sabal Steve]

Between that dog and your climate you sure have your work cut out for you.

[Kostas]

A mound is supposed to be wider so that it holds and doesnt wash off with watering/rain. The mulch will help with that big time too.

I would water it well after the dog peed on it,to wash it off and dilute it. You can teach it not to do that but do it elsewhere where you want it to. Just being close to the palm when you see it approach it with bad things in mind ,you can deter it from doing it by telling it not to do that,yelling some or nudging it away if needed, and then praise it when it pees elsewhere that its ok to. Mine almost never pees on plants i dont want it to, but it took some teaching for that. I never use animal repellents,dont think there is any need.

[Phoenikakias]

Organic rich soil with gravel, hmmm no hell no, organic rich soil mixed with clay, definitely yes, organic rich soil mixed with sand, probably yes, clay mixed with sand (and also organics), definitely yes, peat mixed with clay, definitely yes, clay mixed with gravel, yes if plant likes on the alkaline side.

Besides I face same problems with my own mastiff (cane corso) and Sabal plants. You can not train with safety your dog not peeing near the palm. It may behave itself as long as you are nearby and detects that you keep an eye on it, but as soon as you are away or do not pay attention ... presto! Permanent solution is only one my friend, rabbit cage fixed steadily with iron pipes used as poles (4), hollow interior of the pipes will take also care for better aeration of your clayish subsoil. I also used big concrete plates and stones around palm's bowls to keep away dogs, big mistake though, it has led to severe compaction of my clay soil.

[jfrye01@live.com]

I soaked the dirt and the palm as soon as I woke up this morning, trying to dilute the dog urine...I added more dirt to make a larger mound...I told my dad about the problem, and he ran to town to buy one of those invisible fences...we have one around our entire property, but I guess he's tired of the dog digging around the foundation as well, so now we're gonna run one entirely around the house...yay! Hopefully the damage is not already done, though...but I doubt it. We have several other plants (rosebushes, crepe myrtle, dwarf pines, ferns) that he has urinated on for the past 4 years and they're still alive...

[Kostas]

Nah,palms can deal with some dog mischief now and then and in the ground its always better. But its not good to collect at their growing point and remain unrinsed, so when you know he did it,just flush it well. My banana mat gets 'fertilized' pretty often but it doesnt care,so i have ceased to care either,but broms,ferns,aroids and palms are a no no,and my dog knows that. He behaves himself even when not watched cause he knows these matter to me. He may go rip apart a bag blowing with the wind while not being watched and create a mess with that but the plants of mine,he cares and licks with sympathy even when i am not there(like thinking,this is the boss's)

[Phoenikakias]

Nah,palms can deal with some dog mischief now and then and in the ground its always better. But its not good to collect at their growing point and remain unrinsed, so when you know he did it,just flush it well. My banana mat gets 'fertilized' pretty often but it doesnt care,so i have ceased to care either,but broms,ferns,aroids and palms are a no no,and my dog knows that. He behaves himself even when not watched cause he knows these matter to me. He may go rip apart a bag blowing with the wind while not being watched and create a mess with that but the plants of mine,he cares and licks with sympathy even when i am not there(like thinking,this is the boss's)

Dogs like to mark their territory, it is in their nature. So if a palm is planted near the limit of the estate, or they smell a trespasser (ie a cat), or even worse they can see a (possible) trespasser (ie a cat) passing by near their territory, their next anticipated move is to pee on the nearest plant. If you have a dog that has no possibility of sight beyond your garden, or there are no cats nearby, or your dog does not feel a guardian or it even is lobotomized-neutered, then it is 'natural' that your dog does not present a problem for the palms. Besides you do not use rich in nitrogen chemical fertilizers. This last is very important, because even if one is extra careful with dosage per palm, one can never estimate with precision how much extra nitrogen same plant will receive with the help of a dog. So in an unusually hot and dry weather nitrogen accumulation around palm may rise to a critical level.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Phoenikakias

[jfrye01@live.com]

It seems for the most part, he marks the dirt, not the actual plant itself...so that's probably better than getting urine down in the crown...

[Kostas]

They are also intelligent creatures and can learn where that's not allowed,not to pee on certain plants,objects and areas. Natural or not,they have to comply with the house rules and they do if taught. At least mine does learn,and he is an excellent guardian and not neutered.

It does is a fact that as long as the soil is moist and the leafs/growing center are not peed on,the plants are usually unaffected if established in the ground. With dry soil,damage can be severe in shallow rooted plants and potted ones. In pots,a good rinsing is a must I would say and it's certainly preferable in the ground too. During the summer,I water the grass every night to avoid burned patches from the dog.

Jacob,what your dog does is certainly preferable and if it's only a brief marking,it shouldn't affect the palm much.

[Phoenikakias]

They are also intelligent creatures and can learn where that's not allowed,not to pee on certain plants,objects and areas. Natural or not,they have to comply with the house rules and they do if taught. At least mine does learn,and he is an excellent guardian and not neutered.

It does is a fact that as long as the soil is moist and the leafs/growing center are not peed on,the plants are usually unaffected if established in the ground. With dry soil,damage can be severe in shallow rooted plants and potted ones. In pots,a good rinsing is a must I would say and it's certainly preferable in the ground too. During the summer,I water the grass every night to avoid burned patches from the dog.

Jacob,what your dog does is certainly preferable and if it's only a brief marking,it shouldn't affect the palm much.

Dude, you have a very talented dog, maybe hire it for a tv series or a movie...

[Phoenikakias]

[dalmatiansoap]

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Neat! How do U keep the foliage from winds?

[Phoenikakias]

I do nothing Ante, they have to fend for themsleves, and ideed by age and adequate nutrition and watering leaves are getting harder. Not the case though with some forms of Sabal minor.